Barker, Green, Brayford and Tyson

[McRamFan]

This is the problem that I see it, people are still thinking back to that time.

We went up with not the Americans in charge but with Gadsby if my memory serves me correctly. The money was not there to keep us up and the poison dwarf silly billy wasted what he had on players like Claude Davis. Then we were sold to Pearson who in some respect used us to make a small profit which is not an issue really as that is business. We were then sold again to the Americans. The deal was not at the beginning of the transfer window. We brought in Jewell who has to be fair had experience of getting a team promoted and keeping them up. However not enough time to change the structure of the team to keep us up. They trusted Jewell as by CV's he had a good one in respect of what he achieved at Wigan. However the money that was free was used in an attempt of getting straight back up, but he also proved to be fine at wasting the available money as Jewell did and during both of their reigns there was nothing being produced from the academy if I remember rightly we even pulled out of the reserve league either under Davies or Jewell.

It did not work and Jewell left as he knew that he had used the money up and there was no more to be had and lets be fair we were looking like a team going down that season, although we had a good cup run.

The board then brings in Clough who has eperience of working with a club where money is limited, had developed the team and worked with the club to develop them as well. When he left they were all but guaranteed to be promoted into the football league and had a new ground. Yes he did not have the experience of managing at this level.

Now this is where I have an issue, yes the wounds are still deep from that season but none of this was down to Clough. People do not credit the work that has had to be done to the squad, the ethos at the club and what needed to change for the Club to turn the corner and develop.

Of all the players that have left the club since Clough has been here and this must be pushing nearly 30 players only 2 players have been named as players that fans wanted to keep. Hulse but what has he done since he left not playing much and the injury last yr kept him out for most of season so would not have benefited. Commons now has a contract appears to be injured again and not playing.

He has cut the wage budget down and brought players in who if they can play with injuries will do so. We now have a wage budget which will not bleed the club dry and put us under risk of going under.

He has brought new staff in and has changed the ethos of producing our own players and finding young players to develop (the same approach as teams in prem league). The evidence of this is O'Brien, Hendricks, Bennett, Doyle, Naylor, Fielding, Legdzins, Bailey, Brayford, Ball. If they can develop and be kept at the club the side looks positive and strong in the future.

Clough yes has signed some dodgy players but look at the bigger picture look at what we had fit to play, look who was available at the time etc. These signings have not stopped and are moved on. Some of the signings to be released are the one here before but admittedly were given 1yr extensions more to necessity than desire and this is Bywater, Leacock and Pearson. All big earners who do not earn their wages - in my opinion.

The negative side is the board lack of money investment into the team and an apparent lack of desire to get promoted. The positive is that they have stood by Clough. Very much like Utd with Fergie. If they had got rid of him would they have had the success as they have had over last 25yrs, don't think so. The difference there was the fact of the club and that they had money to help Fergie develop it quicker.

I am not saying Clough will be as successful as Fergie over time however if he can have but a fraction of the success I would be happy.

Clough has never said that he would get us up straight away, has never promised fantastic free flowing football. He has said it would be long term development, he has promoted honest and hard working performances and consistancy which I think no one can deny is starting to show on the pitch, the consistancy area is still being developed but the hard working and honest performances of players is all there to see.

Yes that season was a disaster but if anyone honestly thinks that the fortunes of the club would be changed over night, a season or two are a bit deluded. The reputation of the club has to be improved and this can only be done by the players on the pitch AND supported by the fans.

Some may say my comments are over positive, however I look at the big picture not just what is in front of me. When the players who are ensuring we are over the wages budgets are gone either in January or next season then I would want further investment. This season I do not believe relegation will be an issue, I however also DO NOT want to be premoted this year if the funds to keep us up and not have another disaster yeat are not in place. I would be happy to have positive performances at home especially as we have seen against the likes of Birmingham, Southampton, Barnsley and Portsmoth as this emphasises the ethos is changing. I am happy to see this develop over time as this is more sustainable than a quick fix is.

That is the most balanced and honest post I have read on here fora long time, thanks for the effort you putinto that!

[TelTheRam]

RotherhamRam,

That is one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum.

[Hucknall Ram]

Rotherham! My eyes hurt! Lol

[EastKentRam]

It's a true and balanced post RR, but you dont mention many flaws Clough has, that imo, will stop us progressing.

[DCFC1976]

This is the problem that I see it, people are still thinking back to that time.

We went up with not the Americans in charge but with Gadsby if my memory serves me correctly. The money was not there to keep us up and the poison dwarf silly billy wasted what he had on players like Claude Davis. Then we were sold to Pearson who in some respect used us to make a small profit which is not an issue really as that is business. We were then sold again to the Americans. The deal was not at the beginning of the transfer window. We brought in Jewell who has to be fair had experience of getting a team promoted and keeping them up. However not enough time to change the structure of the team to keep us up. They trusted Jewell as by CV's he had a good one in respect of what he achieved at Wigan. However the money that was free was used in an attempt of getting straight back up, but he also proved to be fine at wasting the available money as Jewell did and during both of their reigns there was nothing being produced from the academy if I remember rightly we even pulled out of the reserve league either under Davies or Jewell.

It did not work and Jewell left as he knew that he had used the money up and there was no more to be had and lets be fair we were looking like a team going down that season, although we had a good cup run.

The board then brings in Clough who has eperience of working with a club where money is limited, had developed the team and worked with the club to develop them as well. When he left they were all but guaranteed to be promoted into the football league and had a new ground. Yes he did not have the experience of managing at this level.

Now this is where I have an issue, yes the wounds are still deep from that season but none of this was down to Clough. People do not credit the work that has had to be done to the squad, the ethos at the club and what needed to change for the Club to turn the corner and develop.

Of all the players that have left the club since Clough has been here and this must be pushing nearly 30 players only 2 players have been named as players that fans wanted to keep. Hulse but what has he done since he left not playing much and the injury last yr kept him out for most of season so would not have benefited. Commons now has a contract appears to be injured again and not playing.

He has cut the wage budget down and brought players in who if they can play with injuries will do so. We now have a wage budget which will not bleed the club dry and put us under risk of going under.

He has brought new staff in and has changed the ethos of producing our own players and finding young players to develop (the same approach as teams in prem league). The evidence of this is O'Brien, Hendricks, Bennett, Doyle, Naylor, Fielding, Legdzins, Bailey, Brayford, Ball. If they can develop and be kept at the club the side looks positive and strong in the future.

Clough yes has signed some dodgy players but look at the bigger picture look at what we had fit to play, look who was available at the time etc. These signings have not stopped and are moved on. Some of the signings to be released are the one here before but admittedly were given 1yr extensions more to necessity than desire and this is Bywater, Leacock and Pearson. All big earners who do not earn their wages - in my opinion.

The negative side is the board lack of money investment into the team and an apparent lack of desire to get promoted. The positive is that they have stood by Clough. Very much like Utd with Fergie. If they had got rid of him would they have had the success as they have had over last 25yrs, don't think so. The difference there was the fact of the club and that they had money to help Fergie develop it quicker.

I am not saying Clough will be as successful as Fergie over time however if he can have but a fraction of the success I would be happy.

Clough has never said that he would get us up straight away, has never promised fantastic free flowing football. He has said it would be long term development, he has promoted honest and hard working performances and consistancy which I think no one can deny is starting to show on the pitch, the consistancy area is still being developed but the hard working and honest performances of players is all there to see.

Yes that season was a disaster but if anyone honestly thinks that the fortunes of the club would be changed over night, a season or two are a bit deluded. The reputation of the club has to be improved and this can only be done by the players on the pitch AND supported by the fans.

Some may say my comments are over positive, however I look at the big picture not just what is in front of me. When the players who are ensuring we are over the wages budgets are gone either in January or next season then I would want further investment. This season I do not believe relegation will be an issue, I however also DO NOT want to be premoted this year if the funds to keep us up and not have another disaster yeat are not in place. I would be happy to have positive performances at home especially as we have seen against the likes of Birmingham, Southampton, Barnsley and Portsmoth as this emphasises the ethos is changing. I am happy to see this develop over time as this is more sustainable than a quick fix is.

I would generally agree with what you say.

The only problem have with Clough is the way he lays into certain players where others get off, I'm not sure what Cywka has done wrong or Maguire. I understand that players need to work for the team and put in the effort in training but those two seem to be in for one game, not play too well then they are out.

But overall with what money he has had available I don't think he has done that bad compared to previous managers, if we end up in the bottom 6 at the end of the season however that should be enough for him to go.

In relation to not going up, I don't think the Premiership is as strong as when we were there before, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool etc. were flying (even Babel & Torres at Liverpool) so I think we would do better.

[RotherhamRam]

It's a true and balanced post RR, but you dont mention many flaws Clough has, that imo, will stop us progressing.

Clough has every manager has flaws, and every manager learns has times goes on. People criticised him last season for falling out with players and not giving them chance again.

Well lets see then Croft prime example, dropped out of the squad told to train and push for a place. Croft has done that and was unfortunate to pick up injury at Boro as he would be playing now.

Cywka was picked in the biggest game of the season to play against Forest and was unlucky not to stop on and would have done so if not for Fielding being sent off. Played against Reading and is in or around the match day squad depending on who we play.

Some would say he has learnt over this, and there is no point playing people not in your plans as they will not have the right attitude, also ones that are in their plans if they are not producing in training then they will not get a chance. Training is where you put your case forward and if we are not there at every session then who are we to judge who should or should not be playing. That is why Clough and his staff are paid to make these decisions

In respect of substitutions he is the manager and some fans will agree or disagree with his decision. I remember last year when he took Robinson off against Hull and was one who could not believe he had done so. However when asked why he explained that although he was working hard he was giving the ball up far to often and his control was poor. When he explained it you could see why he did it. At present his control is not much better but has scored 6 goals this season so not doing to bad.

His comments after the game are more constructive so has learnt there.

Yes he is stubborn but got that from his dad. Yes he makes decisions some wonder why but that is why he is manager.

Yes he buys some players people wonder why but in the same breath he has unearthed some gems for little money.

Some said he does not have a plan B as last yr stuck to the 4231. We started with that formation, last year would have stuck with it, this year he reverted to 442 as the players at his disposal play better in this formation.

Experience is key and that is for everyone, the board, the manager and the players but also supporters.

Although not playing as well as we were at the beginning of the season I am looking forward to going Saturday.

The biggest difference for me this year as other people are seeing the changes although some would say to small too slow. When we were stuffed by Cardiff and we were last year the players would have been booed of the pitch however this year that has not been the case. That for me says a lot as fans there at the game can show their opinions immediately without thinking or expressing their views in a different way

[EastKentRam]

The thing is, i dont think he's learning. As Bris has highlighted, our record in the later stages of game is terrible, although we werent against Peterborough, generally we're very negative later in games particularly away from home. This has been going on for some time and Clough still hasnt learned.

He still seems to hold grudges against players, Maguire, Cykwa to name a couple. His substitutions against Peterborough were as amteurish as they come and you wouldnt expect a young child to make those decisions, let alone someone who's been managing a Championship side for 3 years.

I still think he favours work horse type players over those with some genuine ability.

[Donny Ram]

If they don't make the squad that's fine, let's get them fully fit first. On a selfish note, at least I can watch them play up at Rotherham Parkdale in the reserve cup match on Monday afternoon.

[Bris Vegas]

This is the problem that I see it, people are still thinking back to that time.

We went up with not the Americans in charge but with Gadsby if my memory serves me correctly. The money was not there to keep us up and the poison dwarf silly billy wasted what he had on players like Claude Davis. Then we were sold to Pearson who in some respect used us to make a small profit which is not an issue really as that is business. We were then sold again to the Americans. The deal was not at the beginning of the transfer window. We brought in Jewell who has to be fair had experience of getting a team promoted and keeping them up. However not enough time to change the structure of the team to keep us up. They trusted Jewell as by CV's he had a good one in respect of what he achieved at Wigan. However the money that was free was used in an attempt of getting straight back up, but he also proved to be fine at wasting the available money as Jewell did and during both of their reigns there was nothing being produced from the academy if I remember rightly we even pulled out of the reserve league either under Davies or Jewell.

It did not work and Jewell left as he knew that he had used the money up and there was no more to be had and lets be fair we were looking like a team going down that season, although we had a good cup run.

The board then brings in Clough who has eperience of working with a club where money is limited, had developed the team and worked with the club to develop them as well. When he left they were all but guaranteed to be promoted into the football league and had a new ground. Yes he did not have the experience of managing at this level.

Now this is where I have an issue, yes the wounds are still deep from that season but none of this was down to Clough. People do not credit the work that has had to be done to the squad, the ethos at the club and what needed to change for the Club to turn the corner and develop.

Of all the players that have left the club since Clough has been here and this must be pushing nearly 30 players only 2 players have been named as players that fans wanted to keep. Hulse but what has he done since he left not playing much and the injury last yr kept him out for most of season so would not have benefited. Commons now has a contract appears to be injured again and not playing.

He has cut the wage budget down and brought players in who if they can play with injuries will do so. We now have a wage budget which will not bleed the club dry and put us under risk of going under.

He has brought new staff in and has changed the ethos of producing our own players and finding young players to develop (the same approach as teams in prem league). The evidence of this is O'Brien, Hendricks, Bennett, Doyle, Naylor, Fielding, Legdzins, Bailey, Brayford, Ball. If they can develop and be kept at the club the side looks positive and strong in the future.

Clough yes has signed some dodgy players but look at the bigger picture look at what we had fit to play, look who was available at the time etc. These signings have not stopped and are moved on. Some of the signings to be released are the one here before but admittedly were given 1yr extensions more to necessity than desire and this is Bywater, Leacock and Pearson. All big earners who do not earn their wages - in my opinion.

The negative side is the board lack of money investment into the team and an apparent lack of desire to get promoted. The positive is that they have stood by Clough. Very much like Utd with Fergie. If they had got rid of him would they have had the success as they have had over last 25yrs, don't think so. The difference there was the fact of the club and that they had money to help Fergie develop it quicker.

I am not saying Clough will be as successful as Fergie over time however if he can have but a fraction of the success I would be happy.

Clough has never said that he would get us up straight away, has never promised fantastic free flowing football. He has said it would be long term development, he has promoted honest and hard working performances and consistancy which I think no one can deny is starting to show on the pitch, the consistancy area is still being developed but the hard working and honest performances of players is all there to see.

Yes that season was a disaster but if anyone honestly thinks that the fortunes of the club would be changed over night, a season or two are a bit deluded. The reputation of the club has to be improved and this can only be done by the players on the pitch AND supported by the fans.

Some may say my comments are over positive, however I look at the big picture not just what is in front of me. When the players who are ensuring we are over the wages budgets are gone either in January or next season then I would want further investment. This season I do not believe relegation will be an issue, I however also DO NOT want to be premoted this year if the funds to keep us up and not have another disaster yeat are not in place. I would be happy to have positive performances at home especially as we have seen against the likes of Birmingham, Southampton, Barnsley and Portsmoth as this emphasises the ethos is changing. I am happy to see this develop over time as this is more sustainable than a quick fix is.

You need to stop writing essays mate.. I read the first two lines and gave up, you're seriously wasting your time writing all that just to put accross your opinion.. I don't even need to read it to say I'd probably disagree with the majority as it's overly positive..

I also saw a quickmention of Sir Alex Ferguson, why people keep drawing comparisons to the biggest club in the world is beyond me, we're a midtable NPC side.. Jesus.

[nookiebear]

bit arrogant

is that the same as putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalalal when we WERE kids!

[Bris Vegas]

bit arrogant

is that the same as putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalalal when we WERE kids!

No, but on an internet forum I can imagine people don't particularly enjoy reading an 8 paragraph essay just about one persons opinion... And also how do you reply to it? If you don't agree, like I probably don't, I myself am going going to waste 30 minutes of my day trying to conjure up a reply..

I like many others will look at it and just ignore it, that maybe ignorant, but at the same time it might save Rotherham the time of writing it also..

[trooper]

I liked it

[nookiebear]

all the paragraphs we've read youve wrote that spout the same thing!!! and you wont read a well written, balanced point of view because its a bit long????

is that because it disagrees with you?? are we being a bit mardy?

i liked it too, it was a bit long but worth it well done mate

[Mr Tibbs]

I liked it, think Bris' view on writing long posts is utter ***** personally but each to their own.

Wouldn't knock anyone for taking the time to write something, especially if it's relative and fair.

Better than short text talk that's ever present nowadays.

[Schteve]

is that the same as putting your fingers in your ears and going lalalalalalalalal when we WERE kids!

Bummer, I still do that.

[sage]

You need to stop writing essays mate.. I read the first two lines and gave up, you're seriously wasting your time writing all that just to put accross your opinion.. I don't even need to read it to say I'd probably disagree with the majority as it's overly positive.

That is the funniest post of the year. I don't need to read it as I probably disagree with it. I thought you'd made yourself look daft over your Peterborough/Negativity presumptions and failure to concede facts after, but this actually takes the biscuit.

[sage]

The thing is, i dont think he's learning. As Bris has highlighted, our record in the later stages of game is terrible, although we werent against Peterborough, generally we're very negative later in games particularly away from home. This has been going on for some time and Clough still hasnt learned.

Our performance in the last 10 minutes of games is 85% better than last season. Isn't that the very definition of learning from mistakes?

[davenportram]

No, but on an internet forum I can imagine people don't particularly enjoy reading an 8 paragraph essay just about one persons opinion... And also how do you reply to it? If you don't agree, like I probably don't, I myself am going going to waste 30 minutes of my day trying to conjure up a reply..

I like many others will look at it and just ignore it, that maybe ignorant, but at the same time it might save Rotherham the time of writing it also..

8 paragraphs an essay? Why couldn't you have been my English teacher. Anyway judging by the responses many have read it.

If RR wants to give his opinion, and share the reasons he holds it then he can. If you can't be bothered to read then show some manners and don't comment on it.

[McRamFan]

No, but on an internet forum I can imagine people don't particularly enjoy reading an 8 paragraph essay just about one persons opinion... And also how do you reply to it? If you don't agree, like I probably don't, I myself am going going to waste 30 minutes of my day trying to conjure up a reply..

I like many others will look at it and just ignore it, that maybe ignorant, but at the same time it might save Rotherham the time of writing it also..

I think that you need to stop making assumptions like 'I can imagine....' 'I like many others....'. Especially as the post got quite a few likes, and people who commented on it, read it and either agreed or disagreed, whilst you assumed. They say assumption is the mother of all f*** ups.

But hey, I'll assume that you are only going to read the first two lines of this post??!!??!!

[Bris Vegas]

all the paragraphs we've read youve wrote that spout the same thing!!! and you wont read a well written, balanced point of view because its a bit long????

is that because it disagrees with you?? are we being a bit mardy?

i liked it too, it was a bit long but worth it well done mate

It's a well balanced post becuse you agree with it, but then I talk sh*te despite proving my statements with facts yet you think otherwise... That's swings and roundabouts..

Perhaps I didn't word my post correctly, Rotherham seems to put alot of effort into his posts which is great, all I'm saying is many people will look at it and not even bother reading it because of the length..

Also it's hardly a debatable point, he's putting it all out there.. The posts that mainly reply are stuff like 'good post'.. He's wasted 40 minutes probably writing that to get a few responses of 'good post' and a few likes.. Well if that's how he likes to spend his time, kudos to him..