Barker, Green, Brayford and Tyson

[PBW Ram]

I just don't particularly rate them as players Rotherham.. I'm delighted with Hendrick and O'Brien, I think they both deserve to keep their places and IMO they're better players.. O'Brien seriously needs to work on his distribution though..

Green was excellent during our purple patch, but so was Bueno, Commons, Kuqi and Cywka.. Green was then moved to RB for what must have been Cloughs worst ever managerial decision as it totally rocked the balance of the side and destroyed a winning team. But I can only see him in an attacking position, in the centre Bailey and Hendrick are better players, much better in possession..

Tyson is very similar to Robsinson, except Robinson seems to score more.

As for Barker, you know my opinion.

Rotherham I don't expect people to agree with my opinions, but how boring would it be if everyone did.. If everyone agrees, there is no need for a forum.. The fact that our opinions are the complete opposite is the reason we can have a decent debate

I disagree Bris.

I think the extremity and ridiculous nature of your views are the reason there can't be any decent debate ever. Even the good points you make get lost cos of how you write.

No debate - there can only be total and utter disbelief that someone could seriously back those type of views.

Barker no better than O'Brien - if that is really your view - then you can't expect anyone who knows a jot about the game to take you seriously.

[Bris Vegas]

Ever thought that there was no-one else available? He did the best job he could by shifting players who could actually play those positions.

Anderson/O'Brien/Buxton weren't available last season for large periods, and we didn't have any other option. I'd have done the same if there was no other option, and there didn't appear to be.

Ayala was brought in when we had the option so that we didn't have to shift Brayford/Green about and affect the team. You do really like to slate Clough for everything don't you. Christ.....

What rubbish.. We had so many different options..

Including a certain Leacock who was put at RB against Forest. Fantastic decision.

[Bris Vegas]

I disagree Bris.

I think the extremity and ridiculous nature of your views are the reason there can't be any decent debate ever. Even the good points you make get lost cos of how you write.

No debate - there can only be total and utter disbelief that someone could seriously back those type of views.

Barker no better than O'Brien - if that is really your view - then you can't expect anyone who knows a jot about the game to take you seriously.

Seriously.. Why do you think Barker is any good? His best ever finish is 14th in the NPC has never been wanted by any higher club.. The fact that our defence has been far better this season when Barker hasn't been playing is not a coincidence

[nfb]

The funny thing about football is we all have opinions about all aspects of the game, and thus we will clash, i think that Rotherham is basically correct, i say basically because we all remember both good and bad in our lives (think about it) so much of football can be off the ball, and things like assists and passing percentage,etc, as well as vision........

Hendrick/Green, if you could mould them into one player etc........ all of our team could be improved, but we must remember how much they cost ! i believe that net NC( ive never been a total fan, but... ) has spent about 3m in the last couple of years, and he himself was a 'cheaper' option for the board.

So yes we could criticise all of them, but slowly we are moving forwards, and i think NC has gotten better, although he does still make some odd decisions, but not as bad as the brayford/green decisions, but NC would say that at the time he felt it was the best option.

So, basically im saying that we are improving all around,slowly,too slowly for most bearing in mind where we have come from, but, 'when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys', springs to mind....... and i guess if your not happy,you have to look at the zoo owners ??

I for one, am not convinced about their conviction to their original sound bite of making DCFC a 'Global Brand', a well discussed topic....

The circle goes round 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='^_^' />

[PBW Ram]

Seriously.. Why do you think Barker is any good? His best ever finish is 14th in the NPC has never been wanted by any higher club.. The fact that our defence has been far better this season when Barker hasn't been playing is not a coincidence

Seriously?

because I see the way he defends, I see the way he leads and I see the way he plays. He is simply a better player than O'Brien.

it's not something I want to spend ages discussing.

If you can't see it - I don't think I'll be able to change your mind with a few written words.

(i'll go on record now as saying O'B has been a breath of fresh air and a revelation this season)

[Alex W]

What rubbish.. We had so many different options..

Including a certain Leacock who was put at RB against Forest. Fantastic decision.

For a large part of the second half of the season Leacock was also injured, you can check that yourself through the DCFC match reports. Besides which, Leacock had let him down, and so was dropped. While I would have played him, we have no idea what had gone on regarding arguments or what had happened between them in general. When Clough used him at centre back for one of the games that Ayala/Barker missed (I can't remember which) Clough commented that they'd not seen eye to eye on "several occasions", so presumably those two really weren't getting on at the time. Could you play a player you had that kind of relationship with?

Personally I would have used him but he missed only few games due to the arguments as he became injured during that time if memory serves anyway. And Leacock was the one option available. Please do tell the other options available?

Infact, don't, I really do not want to make this a thread go the same way as many before it.

[DcFc Dyycheee]

There all good players but i think we wont see Tyson for a while yett (******) Green is cover at right back and a good all round midfielder and will be great along side Bryson. I dont think we can tell barker has missed cause ob has played really well, but i think we will be even more solid with Barks at the back, and obviously Brayford will improve us, but i wonder what number they will give Greeny?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

To be fair to Bris, you are equally as boring with your overly positive posts on Derby and Clough. At least Bris does make some positive points about the club, i dont think you've ever said anything bad about Clough or anything at the club, which is just ridiculous.

How can a loyal Derby fan be overly positive about the team he supports? Have you gone mad? I think some of you armchair critics think too much of your own opinion. A bit like a communist. Has naff all but is determined to share it!

[EastKentRam]

How can a loyal Derby fan be overly positive about the team he supports? Have you gone mad? I think some of you armchair critics think too much of your own opinion. A bit like a communist. Has naff all but is determined to share it!

I suppose you were jumping for joy when we were relegated from the Prem with the lowest points total ever.

How can someone be overly positive? Take a guess sherlock.

[Ambitious]

Brayford and Barker will come straight in and you'll see a massive improvement in that area of the pitch when they're back, although Green will be back and i disagree with people that call him a poor player, however it's debatable to if he is better than Bryson, Hendrick and Bailey as all 4 centre midfielders for me are all a good standard of championship player, and all could compete at the top end of the championship on their day.

Nathan Tyson is an unknown, considered by the players and the management as a dangerous threat and a major player for Derby County, however some fans are desperate for him never to get a chance, and take great pride in calling him an injured donkey which is bizarre IMO but I can't understand for the life of me why people are arguing with people that work and play with him day in day out on his quality, I don't think any of us can comment, it's a wait and see for me.

[Bris Vegas]

How can a loyal Derby fan be overly positive about the team he supports? Have you gone mad? I think some of you armchair critics think too much of your own opinion. A bit like a communist. Has naff all but is determined to share it!

Be careful where you go with this.. There's a fine line between a loyal fan and a damn right deluded fan.. (And we have a good mixture of the two on here)

[NothernRam]

See at next year Mr. Tyson.

STRIKER Nathan Tyson's long battle for fitness is set to run into next month.

Derby County received a huge boost this week when skipper Shaun Barker, Paul Green and Chris Riggott returned to action following lengthy lay-offs.

Tyson could start training in 10 days to two weeks' time, said Rams manager Nigel Clough, who admits the player's absence has been a blow.

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/story-13883946-detail/story.html

'Major' signing? What a joke.

[Gary Teale]

I do find people are a bit stat mad now, yes Green had quite a few assists playing in a free role behind the front man but where is the stat for how many times he gave the ball away etc, you need all the stats to show a good indication of a player. Our central midfield was out played more often than not with him in there, with and without sav. I dont see him and Bryson working together as I think they are to much a like and for me Bryson is a better footballer. Its time to move on now, he is part of the group who struggled year on year, lets move on

[mcsilks]

See at next year Mr. Tyson.

[url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/story-13883946-detail/story.html]http://www.thisisder...tail/story.html

'Major' signing? What a joke.

Agreed Nothern. Why the heck Nigel signed a player who got injured straight away is anyone's guess. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

[Martyn]

I do find people are a bit stat mad now, yes Green had quite a few assists playing in a free role behind the front man but where is the stat for how many times he gave the ball away etc, you need all the stats to show a good indication of a player.

No you don't, all you need to do is watch him play a good number of games.

[sage]

Seriously.. Why do you think Barker is any good? His best ever finish is 14th in the NPC has never been wanted by any higher club.. The fact that our defence has been far better this season when Barker hasn't been playing is not a coincidence

I hadn't realised we had 11 Shaun Barkers playing, so he is responsible for where we finished.

[sage]

Moving Green to RB and Brayford to CB because he didn't want any other CB there, awful disastrous ametuerish decision.. Why take out an attacking player with the leading assists in the team and arguably the best RB in the league at the time who gave us so many runs down the right.. NCs decisions then single handidly destroyed any momentum we had..

All he had to do was pick the many other CBs we had in that position or get one in loan.. Instead he shifted half the team around.. I mentioned it before, that decision would be on par with putting someone like Samir Nasri at LB

It's ridiculous to compare Green to Nasri. Nasri is far more attacking, Green played some games at right back for Doncaster and he plays a defensive midfield role when playing international football.

[RotherhamRam]

I suppose you were jumping for joy when we were relegated from the Prem with the lowest points total ever.

How can someone be overly positive? Take a guess sherlock.

This is the problem that I see it, people are still thinking back to that time.

We went up with not the Americans in charge but with Gadsby if my memory serves me correctly. The money was not there to keep us up and the poison dwarf silly billy wasted what he had on players like Claude Davis. Then we were sold to Pearson who in some respect used us to make a small profit which is not an issue really as that is business. We were then sold again to the Americans. The deal was not at the beginning of the transfer window. We brought in Jewell who has to be fair had experience of getting a team promoted and keeping them up. However not enough time to change the structure of the team to keep us up. They trusted Jewell as by CV's he had a good one in respect of what he achieved at Wigan. However the money that was free was used in an attempt of getting straight back up, but he also proved to be fine at wasting the available money as Jewell did and during both of their reigns there was nothing being produced from the academy if I remember rightly we even pulled out of the reserve league either under Davies or Jewell.

It did not work and Jewell left as he knew that he had used the money up and there was no more to be had and lets be fair we were looking like a team going down that season, although we had a good cup run.

The board then brings in Clough who has eperience of working with a club where money is limited, had developed the team and worked with the club to develop them as well. When he left they were all but guaranteed to be promoted into the football league and had a new ground. Yes he did not have the experience of managing at this level.

Now this is where I have an issue, yes the wounds are still deep from that season but none of this was down to Clough. People do not credit the work that has had to be done to the squad, the ethos at the club and what needed to change for the Club to turn the corner and develop.

Of all the players that have left the club since Clough has been here and this must be pushing nearly 30 players only 2 players have been named as players that fans wanted to keep. Hulse but what has he done since he left not playing much and the injury last yr kept him out for most of season so would not have benefited. Commons now has a contract appears to be injured again and not playing.

He has cut the wage budget down and brought players in who if they can play with injuries will do so. We now have a wage budget which will not bleed the club dry and put us under risk of going under.

He has brought new staff in and has changed the ethos of producing our own players and finding young players to develop (the same approach as teams in prem league). The evidence of this is O'Brien, Hendricks, Bennett, Doyle, Naylor, Fielding, Legdzins, Bailey, Brayford, Ball. If they can develop and be kept at the club the side looks positive and strong in the future.

Clough yes has signed some dodgy players but look at the bigger picture look at what we had fit to play, look who was available at the time etc. These signings have not stopped and are moved on. Some of the signings to be released are the one here before but admittedly were given 1yr extensions more to necessity than desire and this is Bywater, Leacock and Pearson. All big earners who do not earn their wages - in my opinion.

The negative side is the board lack of money investment into the team and an apparent lack of desire to get promoted. The positive is that they have stood by Clough. Very much like Utd with Fergie. If they had got rid of him would they have had the success as they have had over last 25yrs, don't think so. The difference there was the fact of the club and that they had money to help Fergie develop it quicker.

I am not saying Clough will be as successful as Fergie over time however if he can have but a fraction of the success I would be happy.

Clough has never said that he would get us up straight away, has never promised fantastic free flowing football. He has said it would be long term development, he has promoted honest and hard working performances and consistancy which I think no one can deny is starting to show on the pitch, the consistancy area is still being developed but the hard working and honest performances of players is all there to see.

Yes that season was a disaster but if anyone honestly thinks that the fortunes of the club would be changed over night, a season or two are a bit deluded. The reputation of the club has to be improved and this can only be done by the players on the pitch AND supported by the fans.

Some may say my comments are over positive, however I look at the big picture not just what is in front of me. When the players who are ensuring we are over the wages budgets are gone either in January or next season then I would want further investment. This season I do not believe relegation will be an issue, I however also DO NOT want to be premoted this year if the funds to keep us up and not have another disaster yeat are not in place. I would be happy to have positive performances at home especially as we have seen against the likes of Birmingham, Southampton, Barnsley and Portsmoth as this emphasises the ethos is changing. I am happy to see this develop over time as this is more sustainable than a quick fix is.

[Day]

I for one will be pleased to see Barker, Brayford and Green all back in the team, apologies if that's pretty weird.

I also hope Green will accept a drop in wages to stay at Derby, apologies once again if that sounds weird.

[sage]

This is the problem that I see it, people are still thinking back to that time.

We went up with not the Americans in charge but with Gadsby if my memory serves me correctly. The money was not there to keep us up and the poison dwarf silly billy wasted what he had on players like Claude Davis. Then we were sold to Pearson who in some respect used us to make a small profit which is not an issue really as that is business. We were then sold again to the Americans. The deal was not at the beginning of the transfer window. We brought in Jewell who has to be fair had experience of getting a team promoted and keeping them up. However not enough time to change the structure of the team to keep us up. They trusted Jewell as by CV's he had a good one in respect of what he achieved at Wigan. However the money that was free was used in an attempt of getting straight back up, but he also proved to be fine at wasting the available money as Jewell did and during both of their reigns there was nothing being produced from the academy if I remember rightly we even pulled out of the reserve league either under Davies or Jewell.

It did not work and Jewell left as he knew that he had used the money up and there was no more to be had and lets be fair we were looking like a team going down that season, although we had a good cup run.

The board then brings in Clough who has eperience of working with a club where money is limited, had developed the team and worked with the club to develop them as well. When he left they were all but guaranteed to be promoted into the football league and had a new ground. Yes he did not have the experience of managing at this level.

Now this is where I have an issue, yes the wounds are still deep from that season but none of this was down to Clough. People do not credit the work that has had to be done to the squad, the ethos at the club and what needed to change for the Club to turn the corner and develop.

Of all the players that have left the club since Clough has been here and this must be pushing nearly 30 players only 2 players have been named as players that fans wanted to keep. Hulse but what has he done since he left not playing much and the injury last yr kept him out for most of season so would not have benefited. Commons now has a contract appears to be injured again and not playing.

He has cut the wage budget down and brought players in who if they can play with injuries will do so. We now have a wage budget which will not bleed the club dry and put us under risk of going under.

He has brought new staff in and has changed the ethos of producing our own players and finding young players to develop (the same approach as teams in prem league). The evidence of this is O'Brien, Hendricks, Bennett, Doyle, Naylor, Fielding, Legdzins, Bailey, Brayford, Ball. If they can develop and be kept at the club the side looks positive and strong in the future.

Clough yes has signed some dodgy players but look at the bigger picture look at what we had fit to play, look who was available at the time etc. These signings have not stopped and are moved on. Some of the signings to be released are the one here before but admittedly were given 1yr extensions more to necessity than desire and this is Bywater, Leacock and Pearson. All big earners who do not earn their wages - in my opinion.

The negative side is the board lack of money investment into the team and an apparent lack of desire to get promoted. The positive is that they have stood by Clough. Very much like Utd with Fergie. If they had got rid of him would they have had the success as they have had over last 25yrs, don't think so. The difference there was the fact of the club and that they had money to help Fergie develop it quicker.

I am not saying Clough will be as successful as Fergie over time however if he can have but a fraction of the success I would be happy.

Clough has never said that he would get us up straight away, has never promised fantastic free flowing football. He has said it would be long term development, he has promoted honest and hard working performances and consistancy which I think no one can deny is starting to show on the pitch, the consistancy area is still being developed but the hard working and honest performances of players is all there to see.

Yes that season was a disaster but if anyone honestly thinks that the fortunes of the club would be changed over night, a season or two are a bit deluded. The reputation of the club has to be improved and this can only be done by the players on the pitch AND supported by the fans.

Some may say my comments are over positive, however I look at the big picture not just what is in front of me. When the players who are ensuring we are over the wages budgets are gone either in January or next season then I would want further investment. This season I do not believe relegation will be an issue, I however also DO NOT want to be premoted this year if the funds to keep us up and not have another disaster yeat are not in place. I would be happy to have positive performances at home especially as we have seen against the likes of Birmingham, Southampton, Barnsley and Portsmoth as this emphasises the ethos is changing. I am happy to see this develop over time as this is more sustainable than a quick fix is.

Absolutely spot on, now wait to be crucified by the mood hoovers.