Rams plan Clough talks

[ianm]

21 chances in 5 games is ****. If that's the total amount of shots in 5 games. If it was against Burnley...then i don't believe it. 19 must have been outside the area.

Either way...we sit too deep, have to many players covering and won't score enough goals.

Just saying.

I agree with that and the frustrating part is we now have the players to be more positive as the second-half against Burnley showed.

We desperately need a proper left-back in the team so we can be more effective down that side in defence and attack and he also needs to find a way of getting McGuire in because he can offer something unexpected. I would drop Bailey and bring him in behind Davies with a licence to roam and get on the ball.

[davenportram]

I agree with that and the frustrating part is we now have the players to be more positive as the second-half against Burnley showed.

We desperately need a proper left-back in the team so we can be more effective down that side in defence and attack and he also needs to find a way of getting McGuire in because he can offer something unexpected. I would drop Bailey and bring him in behind Davies with a licence to roam and get on the ball.

Would lower league player be that proper left back? Don't come back with the he'll be cheaper than Kilbane argument because you have no evidence.

[ianm]

Would lower league player be that proper left back? Don't come back with the he'll be cheaper than Kilbane argument because you have no evidence.

No Roberts should come back in as should have happened for the Burnley game, if Kilbane was good and improving the team as with any player it is worth the extra money but he is pants. Again you don't have to be a genius to realise Kilbane will be on more than a young Wolves reserve who I referred to earlier, if you don't realise that you are not talking with any realism. Also if that player was playing for us we wouldn't have gone out of the League Cup first round because I saw Burton-Shrewsbury last season and Lionel Ainsworth did not go past him once and he played him one on one.

Decisions like this are the reason why Glick is nowhere near the aim of sustainability financially, there is no prospect in the near future of the club turning a trading profit, we still rely on the Yanks propping us up and how long will they keep putting money in. 7500-10000 a week is a lot of season tickets for a has been.

[Guest]

No Roberts should come back in as should have happened for the Burnley game, if Kilbane was good and improving the team as with any player it is worth the extra money but he is pants. Again you don't have to be a genius to realise Kilbane will be on more than a young Wolves reserve who I referred to earlier, if you don't realise that you are not talking with any realism. Also if that player was playing for us we wouldn't have gone out of the League Cup first round because I saw Burton-Shrewsbury last season and Lionel Ainsworth did not go past him once and he played him one on one.

Decisions like this are the reason why Glick is nowhere near the aim of sustainability financially, there is no prospect in the near future of the club turning a trading profit, we still rely on the Yanks propping us up and how long will they keep putting money in. 7500-10000 a week is a lot of season tickets for a has been.

Glick controls the purse strings, noone else, as he says below.

This is a critical year for us to make some progress. You need to protect revenues. We want the fans to keep the faith. We were light in one or two areas, so we have invested

If things go our way and we have a good cup run, we might break even. That’s okay, we have made a conscious decision we are comfortable with.

[ianm]

Glick controls the purse strings, noone else, as he says below.

This is a critical year for us to make some progress. You need to protect revenues. We want the fans to keep the faith. We were light in one or two areas, so we have invested

If things go our way and we have a good cup run, we might break even. That’s okay, we have made a conscious decision we are comfortable with.

We won't break even mate even if we win the Cup, we couldn't break even when we had 12.3m PL TV money, which we don't get anymore. Turnover in the last accounting year likely to be 16 to 18 million, wages in the last accounting period posted 30/06/2010 were 16.4 million. A lot of work to do to break even unless we sell players for big money.

[ianm]

All the same, I can't believe we're even talking about it. Billy Davies is the only manager I remember having his contract extended, but wasn't he only signed for a year initially?

Well his contract only runs till the end of the season. They could do what they did with Roy McFarland on let it run out and not renew it, which would be a sensible course if we don't improve this year.

[davenportram]

We won't break even mate even if we win the Cup, we couldn't break even when we had 12.3m PL TV money, which we don't get anymore. Turnover in the last accounting year likely to be 16 to 18 million, wages in the last accounting period posted 30/06/2010 were 16.4 million. A lot of work to do to break even unless we sell players for big money.

The might break even is regarding this year and won't be posted until 2013, hope you can wait 19 months until you say told you so.

[davenportram]

We won't break even mate even if we win the Cup, we couldn't break even when we had 12.3m PL TV money, which we don't get anymore. Turnover in the last accounting year likely to be 16 to 18 million, wages in the last accounting period posted 30/06/2010 were 16.4 million. A lot of work to do to break even unless we sell players for big money.

Your using out of date wage bill information published for the year to June 2010.

Glick says that the wage bill last season was less than that, around £10m I think. So not as much work needed to break even for the year to 2012 as you portray, because the starting point on wages is lower.

Since last season Varney and Savage have gone, Bueno is no longer on the wage bill, neither are half a years worth of Moxey and Commons. Admittedly I have no idea how much any of them earned, except Savage who put in his book he was on £15k a week or 0.75M a year. Rumours are Hulse, Commons and Varney were on similar.

Using your logic that we must have been paying most of Buenos wages because we do that when we loan in players, and we were still paying most of Varney's wages because we do that when we loan out players, then there has been a substantial cut in the wage bill from this £10m figure

Maybe the shifting others out is the "things going our way". They haven't so far, but their contracts won't be renewed so the wage bill will reduce naturally for the 2012/2013 season.

[ianm]

Your using out of date wage bill information published for the year to June 2010.

Glick says that the wage bill last season was less than that, around £10m I think. So not as much work needed to break even for the year to 2012 as you portray, because the starting point on wages is lower.

Since last season Varney and Savage have gone, Bueno is no longer on the wage bill, neither are half a years worth of Moxey and Commons. Admittedly I have no idea how much any of them earned, except Savage who put in his book he was on £15k a week or 0.75M a year. Rumours are Hulse, Commons and Varney were on similar.

Using your logic that we must have been paying most of Buenos wages because we do that when we loan in players, and we were still paying most of Varney's wages because we do that when we loan out players, then there has been a substantial cut in the wage bill from this £10m figure

Maybe the shifting others out is the "things going our way". They haven't so far, but their contracts won't be renewed so the wage bill will reduce naturally for the 2012/2013 season.

You are making the mistake of listening to paying too much attention to what Glick says. He says players wages are 10m but nothing about PAYE and other wages his were 375k in the last accounts posted, so 10 million players wages plus PAYE, plus Directors wages, plus other staff wages are going to be a lot higher than that. To cut the wages total from 16.5 million to 10 million without massive cuts was not going to happen.

[Bris Vegas]

Love it how you can't say a single bad word about Clough without the usuals jumping all over it in a flash..

Fact is, this season, at any moment, we can either rise or fall down the table in the space of a 6 game swing..

I'm always an admirer and pay very close attention to the performances of teams.. In the 3 years that Clough has been here, other than a 9 game patch during last season I've been very critical of the teams performances, how we've set out, tactics, ball retention the lot..

This season, so far, I don't see any difference in the performances from the past 3 seasons, hence why I don't see us having too much success this season..

The only problem I have with Clough is he doesn't seem to have any sort of longterm plan.. Each summer sees an overhaul of players, new targets, different tactics but the same average/defensive/boring football..

I wish he'd just stick to his plan, win, lose or draw and build on it.. The moment the likes of Jim Smith and George Burley walked through the door it was the same target, football on the deck, use the foreign market, attacking/positive football and they had the belief the results would follow the good football.. And in time it did.

Nigel Clough headed that way last summer, yet he lost a few games in December (through playing half the team out of position) then panicked and changed it all over again.

Does Clough deserve a 3 year contract? I'd like to know what his plans are first, if it is anything like the last few seasons I'd get rid as we're rapidly becoming the next Coventry City.

[Asanovic]

No Roberts should come back in as should have happened for the Burnley game, if Kilbane was good and improving the team as with any player it is worth the extra money but he is pants. Again you don't have to be a genius to realise Kilbane will be on more than a young Wolves reserve who I referred to earlier, if you don't realise that you are not talking with any realism. Also if that player was playing for us we wouldn't have gone out of the League Cup first round because I saw Burton-Shrewsbury last season and Lionel Ainsworth did not go past him once and he played him one on one.

Decisions like this are the reason why Glick is nowhere near the aim of sustainability financially, there is no prospect in the near future of the club turning a trading profit, we still rely on the Yanks propping us up and how long will they keep putting money in. 7500-10000 a week is a lot of season tickets for a has been.

Stop telling people what to think - they're entitled to their opinion. And mine is, if you think Roberts should be let near that team, then it's YOU talking with no realism. Don't moan about not progressing then put a case forward for bringing someone like that back in the team. Kilbane, in my view, is a better player than Roberts.

For what it's worth I say wait till Christmas and make a judgement on his extension. Should be enough time to judge how it's going to pan out. I'm pretty confident we'll be ok, and rather than going on this forum predicting we won't be, and this good start isn't sustainable, I'm probably just going to hope that it is, and get on with it.

[uttoxram75]

Might as well roll out all the cliches - every one else is.

Same argument we've had since Clough joined, some think he's not up to the job, some think he's done a great job with the resources at his disposal.

No one really wants to be proven wrong so people will remain entrenched in their chosen position.

It won't make any difference if Clough signs a 3 year deal or not - if the results go against us this season then the tide will turn and the Clough haters will be the loudest voice.

Pressure will grow and Glick will play his get out of jail card and Clough will be gone, by mutual consent no doubt.

Here's hoping that Clough continues to improve this team, gets the last of the dead wood from the Davies/Jewell era out the door and we finish top 8.

If he does then imo he deserves a 3 year contract and will see us promoted to SKYworld.

The alternative is for a new manager to try and do better with the wage cap and lack of real transfer cash.

I think we've done the hard part, let Clough finish the job.

[Dingo]

I may be confusing the situation, but surely the reason this left back is ON TRIAL is so that we can TRY him and se if he is better than what we have?

If he is, we go for him, if he's not... we don't...

I honestly can't see why you muppets are arguing about it.

[Ambitious]

The lad on trial is a centre half I believe, never played left back.

apart from that, why we even having this discussion? we all know he will sign a new contract and he will get one, well I hope so anyway, the thought of a new manager now makes me feel tired, wouldn't change anything and would more than likely make matters worse, I can't be doing with that!

[Bris Vegas]

Might as well roll out all the cliches - every one else is.

Same argument we've had since Clough joined, some think he's not up to the job, some think he's done a great job with the resources at his disposal.

No one really wants to be proven wrong so people will remain entrenched in their chosen position.

It won't make any difference if Clough signs a 3 year deal or not - if the results go against us this season then the tide will turn and the Clough haters will be the loudest voice.

Pressure will grow and Glick will play his get out of jail card and Clough will be gone, by mutual consent no doubt.

Here's hoping that Clough continues to improve this team, gets the last of the dead wood from the Davies/Jewell era out the door and we finish top 8.

If he does then imo he deserves a 3 year contract and will see us promoted to SKYworld.

The alternative is for a new manager to try and do better with the wage cap and lack of real transfer cash.

I think we've done the hard part, let Clough finish the job.

I really don't get this blind faith that should we give Clough 5 years he will have us playing PL football.. Football doesn't work like that..

Dave Jones is an example of this.. He had the freedom at Cardiff to work with a nice budget and had 5 years of constant improvement, and like Sheff Utd and Preston before them, he didn't get promoted and as a whole the club went backwards..

We are now different.. There is absoloutley no proof whatsoever that Clough can get a DCFC team promoted, he's never won promotion with above non-league level unlike the managers we like to ridicule (Mike Newell, Gary Megson, Paul Jewell, Roy Keane, Brian Laws etc.)

If it was that simple to give managers 5-10 years and they'll win you promotion everyone would do it.. There was a reason we got rid of the likes of Phil Brown and Paul Jewell as we could see the club was going backwards.. I guess after this season we can see where we stand..

I'd wait until next summer before renewing his contract, another relegation battle with poor negative/defensive performance should see him gone.

[Boycie]

carry on, and you'll give Rambler a hernia.

[curb]

No one really wants to be proven wrong so people will remain entrenched in their chosen position.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I really would, I just can't see it happening.

Carry on...

[RotherhamRam]

Board

Reduced the wage bill ? What have they done than say any other decent board at a quarter of the price, contracts have run out, and they have not renewed them. This summer only one player left the club accoring to Glick, which has stopped us from bringing more in, who do we blame for that then ?

4 wins from 5 is great, so why have we not built on that, the transfer window was the time to bring in that couple of extra faces that we needed, but guess what once again the promised investment did not appear.

Also if they have faith in Clough, why not give him a contact extension, or is it that once again it is a clever ploy on his part to defect any questions that are directed his way about things like the DOF ?

Clough

Once again 4 from 5 is great, but what about the past 2 seasons ? Surely people have a right to question the reasoning behind giving him a new contract based upon what he has done so far, not after 5 games into a season but the past 2 years. Their are many more managers in this league who have to work with worse finances that he does.

For what its worth, I think he has done an ok job, and would like to see him given another year at least, hopefully with a new board and owners.

In respect of that question Paul Jewell and Billy Davis. They advised the Yanks who had no experience of football who to buy. They proved that they knew as much about football and players as a chocolate fire guard.

Guess what in respect of only one player leaving it was again Billy Davis and Jewell that has ultimately led to this not Glick or Clough (except for a one yr extension as there was little option to do owt else with injuries and no money). They signed the 3 players that are on way out is Bywater, Pearson and Leacock.

Same old carp again again and again. Who can we blame for not meeting fanns expectations. How about fans becoming realistic. Enjoy when times are good like and instead finding negative look at positives. When times are bad moan but still support the team. The fact people are dropping off saying they have had enough with everything that is fair enough. I have supported Derby since 1986. I don't care if they win lose or draw, I would be devesatated if relegated, excited if we went up but I would still support Derby through thick and thin. If I can afford a season ticket would have one if they were in the conference I don't care.

The Board has done ONE THING right and this is they have stuck with the manager and thank god for that. Stability with in the club is starting to show.

[RotherhamRam]

21 chances in 5 games is ****. If that's the total amount of shots in 5 games. If it was against Burnley...then i don't believe it. 19 must have been outside the area.

Either way...we sit too deep, have to many players covering and won't score enough goals.

Just saying.

We have in 5 games had 28 shots on target and 22 off target.

In the 4 games leading up to Burnley we had no more than 6 shots on target which was Doncaster and scored 3 out of 6. Against Burnley we had 12 shots on target and scored 1.

Now I am sure others will agree I would rather have less shots on target and score more goals than see us shooting and not scoring. Just having shots means nothing in football the shots have to hit the back of the net.

[ianm]

Stop telling people what to think - they're entitled to their opinion. And mine is, if you think Roberts should be let near that team, then it's YOU talking with no realism. Don't moan about not progressing then put a case forward for bringing someone like that back in the team. Kilbane, in my view, is a better player than Roberts.

For what it's worth I say wait till Christmas and make a judgement on his extension. Should be enough time to judge how it's going to pan out. I'm pretty confident we'll be ok, and rather than going on this forum predicting we won't be, and this good start isn't sustainable, I'm probably just going to hope that it is, and get on with it.

If you think Kilbane's performances have been acceptable this season you have not been to any matches or you are showing blind faith. Roberts should be in the team because he is a better left-back, he can at least still run. I have never told anybody what to think I have just put things on that the ones with blind faith don't want to see.