ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Maybe I'm a little different to you in that I didn't expect a miracle from day one and I'm getting what i did expect, gradual progress and getting the foundations of the club right. I then break it down into little blocks of success, the first away win here since 1972, the first time we've beaten so and so twice away from home since 1972, the longest winning home sequence since 1972, the best start to a season since 1236... the first time we've had an england international since blah blah blah...maybe for some those little successes are not enough, but when you've had no success ever (apart from a few glorious years under his dad and a few decent years with others) then success is success. Don't forget that Paul Jewell actually left the club, he quit cos he couldnt turn it around, i think he even admitted that himself..he was shot to pieces mentally when he left. We're not Man Utd, but despite what some say, we have had some things to smile about in the last 3 years - especially if you look for the positives instead of denying them constantly. in 7 years if he is still here, we will be an established premier league side. If he isn't still here - I'm not so sure. That's why I'd give him 7 years. Paul Jewell was a disaster the worst manager we have had since I have followed the Rams, should never have been appointed and sacked months before he was, so in relation to him Clough has been a success. Getting the foundations right I'd like to believe you but I am far from convinced that the Clough/Glick combination is improving the finances or improving the team by enough to justify the faith. When did we have an England international and if we did is that relevant International Football is now a big second to club football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 the point i was making about Arsene is that....no one's job is safe...no one at all....he has revolutionised Arsenal and is now on the edge of being sacked, so to say that it might change with Clough, because we have American owners is completly ridiculous, mush the same as saying that Americans talk super positive in public and stab you in the back, you are being completely foolish. O f course if we lose a few games on the trot he will be under pressure, but guess what, if Kenny Dalglish loses 10 on the trot, he will be sacked, if Ally McCoist loses 5 or 6 he will be sacked....and they are LEGENDS at their respective clubs. Stop talking nonsense about the owners, just because they are from a different country to you....any idea how xenophobic and racist it makes you sound.? I doubt Arsene Wenger is on the edge of being sacked, don't believe the papers if that is where you have got that from. I am not xenophobic or racist and nothing I have put says that. I am going on American's performance at other clubs and can you take anything what Mr Glick says seriously he is a master of telling people what they want to hear not reality. Has he told us he has reigned in the spending on players this Summer because we are still losing money and he has not cut costs by enough or his ticket pricing policy makes it that we only generate £10 per atendee after VAT. No he only gives you part of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I doubt Arsene Wenger is on the edge of being sacked, don't believe the papers if that is where you have got that from. I am not xenophobic or racist and nothing I have put says that. I am going on American's performance at other clubs and can you take anything what Mr Glick says seriously he is a master of telling people what they want to hear not reality. Has he told us he has reigned in the spending on players this Summer because we are still losing money and he has not cut costs by enough or his ticket pricing policy makes it that we only generate £10 per atendee after VAT. No he only gives you part of the picture. i have three very good friends who are all Arsenal season ticket holders, and the feeling down there at the moment is that he IS VERY close to being sacked, very close indeed. Examples of EVERY American in the world doing this....exactly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 i have three very good friends who are all Arsenal season ticket holders, and the feeling down there at the moment is that he IS VERY close to being sacked, very close indeed. Examples of EVERY American in the world doing this....exactly.... Whoever they are mate don't believe them no way would Arsene Wenger ever be sacked, he might decide he's had enough and walk away but he will never be sacked the person doing it would get lynched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelTheRam Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I agree with everything you put - except theres only 16 places to play for. We can only name 5 subs now 11+5=16 Forgot that - but kind of emphasises the point even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sick to the back teeth of the same old bloody comments that are going back and forth. So my quids worth: Board Reduced the wage bill and are working to make us a sound business Promised to build a competitive team - 4 wins from 5, anyone? Put faith in one manager rather than dicking around hiring and firing Clough Had to work with a bunch of ponies last year and kept us in the league Has shown so far what he can do when he builds his own teams Ticks all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Whoever they are mate don't believe them no way would Arsene Wenger ever be sacked, he might decide he's had enough and walk away but he will never be sacked the person doing it would get lynched. It's true - he's on pretty thin ice. I live down here and the general feeling is that it can't go on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sick to the back teeth of the same old bloody comments that are going back and forth. So my quids worth: Board Reduced the wage bill and are working to make us a sound business Promised to build a competitive team - 4 wins from 5, anyone? Put faith in one manager rather than dicking around hiring and firing Clough Had to work with a bunch of ponies last year and kept us in the league Has shown so far what he can do when he builds his own teams Ticks all round. Board Reduced the wage bill ? What have they done than say any other decent board at a quarter of the price, contracts have run out, and they have not renewed them. This summer only one player left the club accoring to Glick, which has stopped us from bringing more in, who do we blame for that then ? 4 wins from 5 is great, so why have we not built on that, the transfer window was the time to bring in that couple of extra faces that we needed, but guess what once again the promised investment did not appear. Also if they have faith in Clough, why not give him a contact extension, or is it that once again it is a clever ploy on his part to defect any questions that are directed his way about things like the DOF ? Clough Once again 4 from 5 is great, but what about the past 2 seasons ? Surely people have a right to question the reasoning behind giving him a new contract based upon what he has done so far, not after 5 games into a season but the past 2 years. Their are many more managers in this league who have to work with worse finances that he does. For what its worth, I think he has done an ok job, and would like to see him given another year at least, hopefully with a new board and owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Board Reduced the wage bill ? What have they done than say any other decent board at a quarter of the price, contracts have run out, and they have not renewed them. This summer only one player left the club accoring to Glick, which has stopped us from bringing more in, who do we blame for that then ? 4 wins from 5 is great, so why have we not built on that, the transfer window was the time to bring in that couple of extra faces that we needed, but guess what once again the promised investment did not appear. Also if they have faith in Clough, why not give him a contact extension, or is it that once again it is a clever ploy on his part to defect any questions that are directed his way about things like the DOF ? Clough Once again 4 from 5 is great, but what about the past 2 seasons ? Surely people have a right to question the reasoning behind giving him a new contract based upon what he has done so far, not after 5 games into a season but the past 2 years. Their are many more managers in this league who have to work with worse finances that he does. For what its worth, I think he has done an ok job, and would like to see him given another year at least, hopefully with a new board and owners. As I said, I'm fed up of having this argument all the time, what I said was from a very high level and there's obviously more to dig in to. I just think we're in a decent position - there's problems everywhere if you go looking for them. The only point I want to make in response is the one in bold. People think we should have just gone out and bought someone, but what if the right player at the right price simply wasn't available? Just go and buy someone anyway? I'd be more angry if I had my season ticket money spent on panic buying to keep people sweet. If the board had given in, we could have well and truly had our pants pulled down over the Waghorn deal. And anyway, my confidence in the loan system has been significantly bolstered. Look at Ward, Kuqi, Fielding and Robinson last year. Three are permanent, Kuqi did well for us. What's the big problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 My analysis is that the board have cut costs a lot and got the finances on track, while risking the league status of this club, clough two poor finishes but then again he had little money, this start is exactly that a start, we were good up until december last year and looked where we ended up fighting relegation. For me, we should wait until april and conduct analysis on Cloughies performence then. I am not a fan of 3 year contracts, 2 at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 As I said, I'm fed up of having this argument all the time, what I said was from a very high level and there's obviously more to dig in to. I just think we're in a decent position - there's problems everywhere if you go looking for them. The only point I want to make in response is the one in bold. People think we should have just gone out and bought someone, but what if the right player at the right price simply wasn't available? Just go and buy someone anyway? I'd be more angry if I had my season ticket money spent on panic buying to keep people sweet. If the board had given in, we could have well and truly had our pants pulled down over the Waghorn deal. And anyway, my confidence in the loan system has been significantly bolstered. Look at Ward, Kuqi, Fielding and Robinson last year. Three are permanent, Kuqi did well for us. What's the big problem? But we havent got the money to go out and buy anyone, so therefore if the right player was available, we could not get him, that is my point, we are not backing Clough by giving him the tools needed to compete. Running the club as is at present, IMO will see us go backwards season on season. (Unless Clough performs a miracle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 But we havent got the money to go out and buy anyone, so therefore if the right player was available, we could not get him, that is my point, we are not backing Clough by giving him the tools needed to compete. Running the club as is at present, IMO will see us go backwards season on season. (Unless Clough performs a miracle). If we went backward from last season it would be relegation, for me last season was the worst supporting derby bar the premiership season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Whoever they are mate don't believe them no way would Arsene Wenger ever be sacked, he might decide he's had enough and walk away but he will never be sacked the person doing it would get lynched. The fans would not lynch anyone, they are getting really fed up of Wenger, he is skating the thinest of thin ice. They can no longer win the league this year, they aren't going to win the Chumpinos league, the best they can hope for is the cup, and that's not good enoough for them. The united result last week pretty much nailed it on for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If we went backward from last season it would be relegation, for me last season was the worst supporting derby bar the premiership season. Quotes like that make me realise exactly how old I am....thanks... I have seen 20 seasons worse than last years...back to the old zimmer frame I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Quotes like that make me realise exactly how old I am....thanks... I have seen 20 seasons worse than last years...back to the old zimmer frame I think. well I have been going for about 10 years, and last season was the worst except the premiership season in my opinion. Be careful not too fall with your walking aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 As I said, I'm fed up of having this argument all the time, what I said was from a very high level and there's obviously more to dig in to. I just think we're in a decent position - there's problems everywhere if you go looking for them. The only point I want to make in response is the one in bold. People think we should have just gone out and bought someone, but what if the right player at the right price simply wasn't available? Just go and buy someone anyway? I'd be more angry if I had my season ticket money spent on panic buying to keep people sweet. If the board had given in, we could have well and truly had our pants pulled down over the Waghorn deal. And anyway, my confidence in the loan system has been significantly bolstered. Look at Ward, Kuqi, Fielding and Robinson last year. Three are permanent, Kuqi did well for us. What's the big problem? Well we went and panic bought Kilbane, which will cost us 200-250k in wages and he is dogpoo, as for the loans Kuqi was ok for short-term he did a job the other 3 have a long way to go before they convince me they are going to be long-term good players for Derby County. What did you say was from a high level I looked at the last audited published accounts and the finances were far from healthy, we made a loss and in that period received the final PL TV payment of 12.3m, which was 40% of total turnover. The wage bill was over 16m and total gate income was only 6.7 million after a season with average attendances of 29,000 and a cup run. This demonstrates just how many people are attending on free or discount tickets and the need to be focused on dropping matchday prices and concentrating on getting full paying adults into the ground those who either don't have or want to take children. With the bottom end placing in the league for the last 2 years if you're telling me everything is rosy in the garden I don't believe it either financial or playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 We didn't have much choice but to panic buy as you put it, in the end. Roberts was injured, Kilbane joined 4 days before the first match of the season. How many left backs have moved clubs this summer? We have no idea how many other options were looked at before we signed him. Would you rather we didn't have a left back at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The fans would not lynch anyone, they are getting really fed up of Wenger, he is skating the thinest of thin ice. They can no longer win the league this year, they aren't going to win the Chumpinos league, the best they can hope for is the cup, and that's not good enoough for them. The united result last week pretty much nailed it on for him. Well they need to get a grip of reality then they are up against 2 clubs who because of their owners have access to unlimited cash and another who can still pay higher wages and they expect to win the league. They are in the CL every year and unless Messi gets injured Barcelona are nailed on to win it again, they are the best side I have ever seen club or international. Also they are pretty much certain to see a good match every time they attend that awful new stadium. So all in all I don't think they have much to be too upset about and the ones who went to United certainly stuck with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianm Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 We didn't have much choice but to panic buy as you put it, in the end. Roberts was injured, Kilbane joined 4 days before the first match of the season. How many left backs have moved clubs this summer? We have no idea how many other options were looked at before we signed him. Would you rather we didn't have a left back at all? I'ts called good management he must have known we needed a cover left-back ever since Moxey left. You know what would have happened Kilbane's agent will have hawked him out and we were the ones daft enough to bite. I saw two on loan left backs last season one at Burton and one at Chesterfield and they would have both done us better than Kilbane to be honest there must be dozens more the same out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'ts called good management he must have known we needed a cover left-back ever since Moxey left. You know what would have happened Kilbane's agent will have hawked him out and we were the ones daft enough to bite. I saw two on loan left backs last season one at Burton and one at Chesterfield and they would have both done us better than Kilbane to be honest there must be dozens more the same out there. You have no idea who else Clough looked at, no idea who was or was not approached, and no idea how much of his wages we are paying. Without knowing that you can say it's bad management. Also, not aimed at you, but some people reckon when we loan out a player we still pay most of their wages (as claimed about Varney), yet when we loan in player we pay most of their wages. Doesn't seem to add up to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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