Alph Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2011/05/messi_the_perfect_combination.html Read this article and at the bottom some of the comments discuss how Barcelona fit Messi, and that he can not be considered one of the greats because he "only performs for Barcelona" Some of the comment (imo are ridiculous) "I agree with others when they question Messi's capabilities in another club team, perhaps? It'll never happen, as Barca won't let him go and it's a place where Messi has everything. However, I can't imagine Messi landing in Naples for example, and transforming an average team to the heights that they reached when Maradona arrived. Maradona also won the World Cup in '86 practically all by himself, and also dragged the team to the final again, kicking and screaming in '90. As much as I think Messi is a genius, he's no Maradona. When people today claim that he is, or even better, I feel people have very short memories indeed." "I am still doubtful of Messi´s capacity OUTSIDE Barcelona. He may very well be a player of ONE team. So far, he wasnt able to shine in the Argentina national team. He only shone in Barcelona. Imho, this happens with other Barça players too. Right now, Daniel Alves is a good example. His performances with the brazilian team are consistently poor, sometimes average at best. The rest of the Barça squad plays well in the spanish team... well, because the spanish team is almost the entire Barça team, and it was changed to IMMITATE Barça´s style of play." "So while I acknowledge Messi is very good, I'm not sure how good he would look if he wasn't surrounded by a team of very recent World Cup winners. For example, if he is truly a great, he must surely be the only great forward or forward midfielder, who never scored a goal in the World Cup finals for his country, which he didn't in 2010, despite reaching the World Cup quarter finals. Eusebio for example scored NINE goals for Portugal in the 1966 World Cup. And of course Argentina, who also had Tevez in the forward line, went out 4-0 to Germany, so the fact that Argentina got such a thrashing by Germany even with Tevez and Messi together in the line up, again seems to illustrate the fact that even a very good player is often only as good as the team mates that are surrounding him." There are a few interesting comments. IMO, i have no idea where people are getting the idea he didn't perform at the World Cup. Because Andy Townsend said so? I though he was brilliant. He didn't score? So what? How many times has he not scored for Barcelona? He hadn't score in England until Saturday. Does that mean he wouldn't cope in England? I really believe he had a good World Cup. He and Argentina looked very frightening until Germany tested that frail defence of theirs that included Coloccini, the worlds most attacking CB! Maradonna said he wasn't concerned with defending..... only scoring. Well, Germany punished that tactic. Ofcourse playing for Barcelona gives him a big lift, but only because he is given the platform to show what he does. Why should he leave Barcelona? Should he have to go and play for the same clubs as Maradonna to prove himself? Should he have to spend a season in Sunday League, January in England to prove he can do it in any conditions? He's played against players from all walks of life. From Vidic to Maicon, from Essien to Pirlo...... and he's proven to be a key cog in a winning team. Is there anyone who thinks he's still got more to prove? That a team full of World Cup winners playing a brand of football, that succeeded internationally without Messi, make him far more effective than he would be in another team? Personally, i think he's the best player football has ever seen. And he's just 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 There's no question he's brilliant, and there's also no question that his brilliance is made greater by the team around and the league he is in. Would be he be able to do it in the Premier League? No doubt he would, but I doubt it to the level he does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 well he is a brilliant player and when he has the ball at his feet it is magical to watch, he will be remembered as one of the greats even if he doesn't play as brilliantly for argentina as he does for barca, he had an ok world cup but not amazing. In england he would do ok but i think he may struggle against some of the bigger teams who may hack him down, but then he may just take them all on and score, the only way to see is if he ever comes over which i doubt he will unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Ram Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Messi is a great player in a great club team, Maradona at his peak was a great player who shone in a fairly poor Argentina side and almost single handed (no pun intended) won them the world cup. Messi proved on Saturday night that he has the measure of arguably the best central defensive partnership in the Premier League in Vidic and Ferdinand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 I don't think he'd ever struggle with the physical side of football in England. Although he might not enjoy playing Stoke City, plenty of teams have done everything, and i mean red card challenges, to put him out of his stride and their lucky if they can even make contact with him. His pace and strength are immense depsite not being the two obvious attributes that stand out. Maradona scored the best goal i've ever seen, but Messi went and scored almost a mirror image goal for Barca!! I can't think of anything that he either hasn't surpassed with the exception of winning the world cup. Had Argentina had Riquelme at the World Cup then i think they would of faired better. Maybe still been exposed by the Germans though. But at 23...... well just where does it end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Nah he's *****. Give me Rooney and Ronaldo over him any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 The best part about Messi is he takes more pride from the fact he is apart of one of the greatest club sides ever to have played the game than when people call him one of the best players the world has ever seen. Messi is by far the best 'team player' I have ever seen. He's got everything. And no, he doesn't have to play Stoke away on a wet Tuesday night to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Football is a generational thing. The game has moved on and is a lot faster. For instance just watch the 1966 World Cup final and you'll catch my drift. This is why comparisons between past and present is difficult and actually completely unnecessary. It can never be proven, it is just best to appreciate talent for what it is or was. Messi is the best player in world football right now and has been for a couple of years. That he is only 23 makes it all the more an achievement. However, it is all in context, Messi has a hell of a supporting cast and no doubt he will achieve more. For that reason I would say other players have achieved more that have been just as influential. Regardless though, Messi has strength, talent and a great attitude and as such would perform in ANY league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Messi is the best player in the best team this side of the millenium, so he's a great player. And he's done enough to be mentioned under the same breath as Pele and Maradona, but I'm not sure he's better than them. Pele and Maradona played at a time when the balls were made of lead, the grass was dead and bobbly, and when defenders could hack at you virtually at will. The rules of football have changed since then, and they've been designed to make players like Messi look even better. He can't be tackled. It would be interesting to see if Messi could go on one of his dazzling runs in the 70s or 80s. He'd look good, but I doubt he'd look Pele good or Maradona good. Watch clips of Pele and he defenders in to a stand still. This was a time when a nasty lunge might have given away a foul, but nothing more, and when set pieces didn't matter so much, and yet still, players were too afraid to make a challenge. Maradona's run against England was sublime - he nearly lost his legs doing it with all the jabs. Not sure Messi is capable of that....? Who knows. It's very hard to compare. We haven't even brought Stanley Matthews in to the debate yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 JYet49BToLw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 HfgbwJkARno The reason i doubt tough tackling would bother him. Too fast, too clever and not weak at all for a short guy or player of any height/weight. The debate whether he's the best ever is a fun one imo. Even though it can't be decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 JYet49BToLw um....not sure he meant that......never seemed to have the ball fully under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorksopRam Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I've seen many games where Messi thrives on being muscled and that, like a strange sadomasochistic or something. He likes the challenge of a few players after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_ram Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 In all fairness, Pele played for Santos. In a league where there was players like Garrincha etc but not a lot of players of that quality as they weren't of the same level as in Europe. I'm sure Madrid would of come knocking at the time when he was at his best as Madrid were the biggest team then, surely it shows his lack of ambition for not wanting to test himself further? Also don't start about the Brazil side because then its the same argument as with Messi, a great player in a great side. Most Brazilian football fans from back then will tell you Garrincha was better than Pele, so that's him out the 'running' so to speak. A fantastic player, not the best ever. Messi is fantastic, he has it all. Key attributes though, acceleration, balance, dribbling, composure, technique, finishing, passing, team work. For me, above all, it's his influence on the game, the fact that he looks as if he isn't playing well, then BAM its in the back of the net, he's a game changer, in that side, Xavi and Iniesta are amazing but they don't win games on their own at a consistently high level, and Messi does so he ranks above Pele for me. Diego Maradona is for me the best though. Napoli were an average, mid table Italian side, and he joined and completely transformed them, they won 2 Serie A titles and could of won more. As for with Argentina, he dragged them to a WC in '86 and dragged them again to a final in '90. He was magical, and for me if Messi could do that in Brazil 2014 then he will surpass him. but until then no. Diego Maradona is the greatest player ever. Lionel Messi is the best player of his era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 In all fairness, Pele played for Santos. In a league where there was players like Garrincha etc but not a lot of players of that quality as they weren't of the same level as in Europe. I'm sure Madrid would of come knocking at the time when he was at his best as Madrid were the biggest team then, surely it shows his lack of ambition for not wanting to test himself further? Also don't start about the Brazil side because then its the same argument as with Messi, a great player in a great side. Most Brazilian football fans from back then will tell you Garrincha was better than Pele, so that's him out the 'running' so to speak. A fantastic player, not the best ever.. This is so wrong on so many levels I that I might have to lie down. Q. The worlds greatest player beyond doubt ...Clue.....4 letters.....P something something E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Ram Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Okay my top 5 are: 1 - Pele 2 - Maradona 3 - Eusebio 4 - Messi 5 - Best This of course is subjective as there are so many variables: era, opposition, ball, pitches etc, there are a few who have just missed out such as Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Zico, Garrincha, Zidane (at his best), Moore, Muller, di Staeffano, Yashin, Banks and Platini... okay so does anybody have any top 5 not from this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I thought Cristianorollaroundandcry Ronaldo was the best in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryKrinkle Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I agree that Pele never played at a high enough club level to genuinely be the greatest. The viagra endorsements have also taken away some of his mystique! He's too clean-cut too....you have to love Maradona's bearded, drug-addled, journalist-shooting pantomime antics Also, has anyone ever noticed that in most of Pele's most famous highlights, he misses...? 1) Banks save 2) Dummy 'round keeper (awesome) misses open net (terrible) 3) Half way line effort - missed, others have done it since and scored - Chris McGuire in an U21 match for instance?? I'm sure there's another I'm missing?? Not to say that Pele wasn't still a legend of course...almost certainly better than Gareth Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Well Pele clearly never thrived in the greatest football competition in the world, mocking the world's best defences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelTheRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 George Best was the best player. Why? Because Pele said so. I read somehere that Matt Busby (I think) was asked if Best was the best forward he'd ever seen. His reply was that he was the best player at every position. He could dribble, head, tackle, pass, dodge tackles - everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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