EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Because he really really was the best player of all time. The videos show it and your reasoning for writing him off doesn't make sense. Why not listen to posters like RamNut who watched these players? Everyone I've spoken or heard seen him play say he's the best player of all time. I have listened to people who have seen these players, they just don't happen to be on this forum. Youtube videos can make anyone look like the best player in the world, I could probably create a video of Ruben Zadkovich that would make him look world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 i am sorry but not like pele, the videos do speak for themselves, ruben zadkovitch, couldn't take on 3 inter defenders, beat them all (while being hacked at) flick the ball up and volley it into the top left corner of the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I have listened to people who have seen these players, they just don't happen to be on this forum. Youtube videos can make anyone look like the best player in the world, I could probably create a video of Ruben Zadkovich that would make him look world class. Not Pele world-class. Ruben Zadkovich hasn't got dozens of films of him making the world's best defenders look like fools. Pele was only really filmed in most of Brazil's games and some Santos' big games (Conrinthians, Benfica et al) - and even then they didn't always have film for the entire 90 minutes. This wasn't the youtube era - the films you have of Pele are the films you have of Pele. It's easy to dig out videos of Messi playing mid-table La Liga teams playing with a ball designed for him on a pitch grown to suit him with rules made to suit him, and make him look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Why are you so bloody obsessed with Pele, there were/are far better players out there. because he was a genius.....absolutely amazing player......the greatest by a mile the excitement of watching him was incredible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Because he really really was the best player of all time. The videos show it and your reasoning for writing him off doesn't make sense. Why not listen to posters like RamNut who watched these players? Everyone I've spoken or heard seen him play say he's the best player of all time. Such a bold statement that is impossible to predict if youve never actually seen him. His records shows his goalscoring ability, not his ability to win games single handidly, nor his assists, nor his team work.. He was apart of an amazing Brazilian team that won the World Cup at a canter, hardly like Maradona single handedly won Argentina the WC. But he only ever played in Brazil in a league that isnt the best. Also youtube clips prove nothing, I can find a youtube clip of 20 Messi goals which show him rounding 4 or 5 players before clipping it past the GK without breaking sweat. Not saying Pele isnt a great player, but you simply cannot compare it to modern day football nor can you judge on what others have said.. Those others being older posters like RamNut.. So RamNut spent 10 years in Brazil did he and was a season ticket holder for Santos during Peles time.. Older people who say hes the best is only using videos also, not actual proof of all of Peles games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 when those vidoes of teams like inter milan and benfica (this was when inter and benfica were amongst the best) it is something, also the brazilian league was very good back then as others have mentioned. Plus the weight of the ball was so much more back then and the pitches were awful, plus the defenders were more ruthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [sIZE=3]In 1967, Pele travelled to Lagos, Nigeria, then in the midst of a brutal civil war, to play an exhibition match. In order to allow both sides of the conflict to see the greatest ever play the game, a 48-hour ceasefire was called and honoured. A single footballer stopped a war.[/sIZE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Such a bold statement that is impossible to predict if youve never actually seen him. His records shows his goalscoring ability, not his ability to win games single handidly, nor his assists, nor his team work.. He was apart of an amazing Brazilian team that won the World Cup at a canter, hardly like Maradona single handedly won Argentina the WC. But he only ever played in Brazil in a league that isnt the best. Also youtube clips prove nothing, I can find a youtube clip of 20 Messi goals which show him rounding 4 or 5 players before clipping it past the GK without breaking sweat. Not saying Pele isnt a great player, but you simply cannot compare it to modern day football nor can you judge on what others have said.. Those others being older posters like RamNut.. So RamNut spent 10 years in Brazil did he and was a season ticket holder for Santos during Peles time.. Older people who say hes the best is only using videos also, not actual proof of all of Peles games.. Again, this downplaying of the Brazilian league is misguided. The Brazilian league was very strong back then, and as I say, the talent was spread about more. Santos could play Internazionales, Benficas etc, beat them and beat them well. And as I say, all of these Messi clips, 10 of those 20 will be Champions League group games or La Liga games. Pele only got cameras in Brazil and Santos' major games, and sometimes the cameras didn't even have enough film for the entire 90 minutes. It proves the Pele was just consistent genius - he shone at every single opportunity thrown in front of him. Messi struggles at World Cups, where was his magic in 2010? And RamNut would have seen the entire games that Pele played, in the World Cups, the Champions League of his day. He and most football fans alive at that time have only seen Pele a handful of times and yet unaminously, he and my dads generation place Pele on a mantle that no other player can touch. That, for me, says enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 [sIZE=3]In 1967, Pele travelled to Lagos, Nigeria, then in the midst of a brutal civil war, to play an exhibition match. In order to allow both sides of the conflict to see the greatest ever play the game, a 48-hour ceasefire was called and honoured. A single footballer stopped a war.[/sIZE] Your point? I'm saying he's overrated, not that he wasn't rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 there will be someone in 50 years time saying the same thing as you about lionel messi, or about sir alex ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 So Pele might have been the greatest player to have lived the game in 1967... But now hes been overtaken by Maradona and Messi. Pele never played European football, never played against the top sides of Europe on a consistant basis..ie. CL football. And was apart of an era where defensive coaches werent around and nor was the formations/personnel designed to stop certain players. The likes of Jose Mourinho wasnt around back then to order players to kick lumps out of the opposition. Also using a heavier ball would help keep it under control.. I look like Messi when kicking a rock around.. Not like the balloons they use nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Top 10 Pele Best Maradona Messi Cruyff Moore (Bobby, not Luke or Darren) Beckenbauer Charlton (Bobby, not the dirty leeds one) Bloomer McFarland Todd Gemmill Webster Hector Boulton ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 there will be someone in 50 years time saying the same thing as you about lionel messi, or about sir alex ferguson. and they will be right. Also the difference between now and 50 years ago, and now and 50 years in the future will be massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 So Pele might have been the greatest player to have lived the game in 1967... But now hes been overtaken by Maradona and Messi. Pele never played European football, never played against the top sides of Europe.. And was apart of an era where defensive coaches werent around and nor was the formations/personnel designed to stop certain players. The likes of Jose Mourinho wasnt around back then to order players to kick lumps out of the opposition. Also using a heavier ball would help keep it under control.. I look like Messi when kicking a rock around.. Not like the balloons they use nowadays. But yes he did!!! Pele began the cultural shift in football in which ball-playing attackers were favoured in rules; world football agreed it was Pele-like players they wanted to see, and football began a pursuit to design a formula in which those players could flourish. Hence the insane skill you get even in England's second tier from players like Taraabt. We're talking about era when defending was mainly about kicking lumps out of the opposition, you could get away with murder. Pele was so good that even the most crunching tackler from the world's best clubs and country's couldn't even touch him. And the "balloons" they play with now are designed to be easy to control, the lumps Pele played with were designed to be roundish and that was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Top 10 Pele Best Maradona Messi Cruyff Moore (Bobby, not Luke or Darren) Beckenbauer Charlton (Bobby, not the dirty leeds one) Bloomer McFarland Todd Gemmill Webster Hector Boulton ...... You missed out Mr Ronaldo LuÃs Nazário de Lima and Mr Rooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 But yes he did!!! Pele began the cultural shift in football in which ball-playing attackers were favoured in rules; world football agreed it was Pele-like players they wanted to see, and football began a pursuit to design a formula in which those players could flourish. Hence the insane skill you get even in England's second tier from players like Taraabt. We're talking about era when defending was mainly about kicking lumps out of the opposition, you could get away with murder. Pele was so good that even the most crunching tackler from the world's best clubs and country's couldn't even touch him. And the "balloons" they play with now are designed to be easy to control, the lumps Pele played with were designed to be roundish and that was it. Playing against top European sides in exhibition matches is not the same as playing against these sides in serious games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 but they won't be as sir alex is one of the best managers in english history and messi is one of the greatest players, fact is pele was a genius when it came to football, he consistently shone at the world cup which comprises the best in the world, played many one off games against the best teams and also ripped them to shreds and ripped apart other teams in the Brazilian league which was again back then one of the best leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You missed out Mr Ronaldo LuÃs Nazário de Lima and Mr Rooney yes, deliberately, would'nt swap any of my 10 (ish) for those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You missed out Mr Ronaldo LuÃs Nazário de Lima and Mr Rooney rooney and ronaldo aren't in the top 10 of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Again, this downplaying of the Brazilian league is misguided. The Brazilian league was very strong back then, and as I say, the talent was spread about more. Santos could play Internazionales, Benficas etc, beat them and beat them well. And as I say, all of these Messi clips, 10 of those 20 will be Champions League group games or La Liga games. Pele only got cameras in Brazil and Santos' major games, and sometimes the cameras didn't even have enough film for the entire 90 minutes. It proves the Pele was just consistent genius - he shone at every single opportunity thrown in front of him. Messi struggles at World Cups, where was his magic in 2010? And RamNut would have seen the entire games that Pele played, in the World Cups, the Champions League of his day. He and most football fans alive at that time have only seen Pele a handful of times and yet unaminously, he and my dads generation place Pele on a mantle that no other player can touch. That, for me, says enough. OK firstly have you not seen his goals against the likes of Lyon, Bayern and Stuttgart (all knockout stage CL goals) plus the one against Real.. If he can do it against Real Madrid he can do it aganst anyone.. So Pele only got cameras in his big games, what about all the other games? Maybe he wasnt so prolific then.. Pele never played in a CL? So RamNut saw him in a world cup, I can go out and buy the world cup of the 50s and say that Ive seen the same amount as RamNut.. Plus he played in what is regarded as the best international team ever.. Not like he didnt have a helping hand then? Messi struggles at World Cups.. Hes had 1, and what regarded at Argies best player despite not scoring.. Hes got another 3 WCs left in him, lets see how many more CLs he wins in that time. And what about Maradona, comfortably better than Peles record, he single handedly transformed Argentina and Napoli into champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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