Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Playing against top European sides in exhibition matches is not the same as playing against these sides in serious games. They weren't just friendlies though. This the time before players were earning vast sums of money and when pride played a huge role. Santos were invited to play to see who was best. There was no World Club Championship back then, so exhibition matches were the only opportunites for clubs to show who was best. It meant a lot to the 22 players on pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 rooney and ronaldo aren't in the top 10 of all time They are in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 you discount pele's world cup achievements through that being a great team, what about barca in the champions league and la liga then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 They weren't just friendlies though. This the time before players were earning vast sums of money and when pride played a huge role. Santos were invited to play to see who was best. There was no World Club Championship back then, so exhibition matches were the only opportunites for clubs to show who was best. It meant a lot to the 22 players on pitch. I very carefully didn't use the word friendly. They might have meant something to the players, but no where near as much as a competitive match nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 They are in my opinion. well then you in my opinion have a very narrow framework of which you rate the best players of all time. For instance rooney is great but compared to messi, Ronaldo (the Portuguese one), villa et al so he isn't close to being in the top 10 of all time when he isn't in the top 5 or 6 of his position at the moment in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 well then you in my opinion have a very narrow framework of which you rate the best players of all time. For instance rooney is great but compared to messi, Ronaldo (the Portuguese one), villa et al so he isn't close to being in the top 10 of all time when he isn't in the top 5 or 6 of his position at the moment in the world. You think Villa is better than Rooney? hahahahaha. I rate Rooney as the best player in the world right now, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 OK firstly have you not seen his goals against the likes of Lyon, Bayern and Stuttgart (all knockout stage CL goals) plus the one against Real.. If he can do it against Real Madrid he can do it aganst anyone.. So Pele only got cameras in his big games, what about all the other games? Maybe he wasnt so prolific then.. Pele never played in a CL? So RamNut saw him in a world cup, I can go out and buy the world cup of the 50s and say that Ive seen the same amount as RamNut.. Plus he played in what is regarded as the best international team ever.. Not like he didnt have a helping hand then? Messi struggles at World Cups.. Hes had 1, and what regarded at Argies best player despite not scoring.. Hes got another 3 WCs left in him, lets see how many more CLs he wins in that time. And what about Maradona, comfortably better than Peles record, he single handedly transformed Argentina and Napoli into champions. Well your logic is a bit confusing. You say Messi can do it against Real, so he can do it against anyone, and I say Pele did it for the big games and you question if he could do it against anyone? Fair enough, sh1te comparison about the World Cup. But back then, the World Cup was more like the Champions League anyway - outside of Europe, footballers wanted to shine there, not in a foreign club competition. And Pele consistently did so. So discounting Pele's World Cup record saying he had the best team is like dismissing Messi because he has the best team in the Champions League. And yes, Maradona did make Argentina World Champions SINGLE HANDedly, I can agree with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You think Villa is better than Rooney? hahahahaha. I rate Rooney as the best player in the world right now, just my opinion. You must be having a tin bath? Is this top 10 of all time only counting the form of players in the 07/08 season or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You think Villa is better than Rooney? hahahahaha. I rate Rooney as the best player in the world right now, just my opinion. yes i do, since rooney attempted what villa did in the champions league final and completely failed. If you rate Rooney better than messi at the moment then you need divine intervention, villa technically is better than rooney for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I very carefully didn't use the word friendly. They might have meant something to the players, but no where near as much as a competitive match nowadays. That's what I was disputing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You must be having a tin bath? Is this top 10 of all time only counting the form of players in the 07/08 season or something? I said best player in the world right NOW, therefore not all time. I'd rather have Rooney in my team than Messi,Ronaldo,Villa or anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 yes i do, since rooney attempted what villa did in the champions league final and completely failed. If you rate Rooney better than messi at the moment then you need divine intervention, villa technically is better than rooney for me. Oh so one good thing Villa does means he is better than Rooney? You need your head looked at if that's your logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 in mine and anyone who saw messi, xavi, iniesta and villa play in the final would say you were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Oh so one good thing Villa does means he is better than Rooney? You need your head looked at if that's your logic that was an example it is what logical people do look for examples to prove their points rather than just pick random players for no reason, rooney frankly technically isn't as good as these players, he is good but not as good. He wouldn't do brilliantly in spain for me and relies a lot on his strength and passion for how he does. He is talented but not as talented as the best of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 that was an example it is what logical people do look for examples to prove their points rather than just pick random players for no reason, rooney frankly technically isn't as good as these players, he is good but not as good. He wouldn't do brilliantly in spain for me and relies a lot on his strength and passion for how he does. He is talented but not as talented as the best of the best. Examples yes, but one very very small example proves absolutely nothing. Well I disagree, there we go. This debate will keep on going round in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 what makes Pele so fantastic? The balance; the touch; the quick feet; probably the greatest ever player with the ball at his feet; the power; the athleticism; the bicycle kicks, the power in the air; the outrageous imagination; the sheer genius; the stats; the best player in the world at 17; still by far the best player in the world at 30; the infectious enthusiasm that made his opponents love him just as much as his team mates; the smile; the sheer joy of playing football; the desire to score the perfect goal; the whole world loved Pele - not just the Brazilians; he got kicked all over the place but never reacted, never retaliated, never rolled around on the floor play acting; he just got up and outclassed his opponent time and again; he was unstoppable - and thats why the stats are so impressive. Just a joy to watch. He'd have the entire crowd on the edge of their seats for 90 minutes. An amazing player and a wonderful ambassador for the game. A genius. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 well what other examples do you want, villa produced a magical shot which rooney couldn't replicate in a similar circumstance. Do you need loads and loads of examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I said best player in the world right NOW, therefore not all time. I'd rather have Rooney in my team than Messi,Ronaldo,Villa or anybody else. Ok, that's slightly more acceptable. But what on earth has Rooney done to earn that? All he does for me is make one touch too many in every dribble he makes, with the occasional world-class cross-field ball. He's not even been the best player for United this season, Nani and Hernandez would argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 what makes Pele so fantastic? The balance; the touch; the quick feet; probably the greatest ever player with the ball at his feet; the power; the athleticism; the bicycle kicks, the power in the air; the outrageous imagination; the sheer genius; the stats; the best player in the world at 17; still by far the best player in the world at 30; the infectious enthusiasm that made his opponents love him just as much as his team mates; the smile; the sheer joy of playing football; the desire to score the perfect goal; the whole world loved Pele - not just the Brazilians; he got kicked all over the place but never reacted, never retaliated, never rolled around on the floor play acting; he just got up and outclassed his opponent time and again; he was unstoppable - and thats why the stats are so impressive. Just a joy to watch. He'd have the entire crowd on the edge of their seats for 90 minutes. An amazing player and a wonderful ambassador for the game. A genius. Simple. See, this is the thing. Maradona and Messi never earn reptitive praise like this. What does this prove? What does the fact that Pele could stop wars, could bring tears to peoples' eyes and change the game forever prove? Perhaps it doesn't prove anything, but the spell Pele cast over his generation is quite unlike anything in almost any other sport. Pele, unlike Maradona, Messi, Kruyf et al was not the master of the art - he was the inventor of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 well what other examples do you want, villa produced a magical shot which rooney couldn't replicate in a similar circumstance. Do you need loads and loads of examples? I'll use Zadkovich again as my rubbish player example. He could score a screamer from 30 yards, Messi could try the exact same shot a few minutes later and hit a rugby shot. Does this prove Zadkovich has more skill than Messi, of course not. And I didn't watch the final, so I have absolutely no clue what incidents you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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