Ambitious Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My view is that we should stop taking on loan players. I'd then like to see Academy players used, especially on the subs bench. Of players Clough has signed, I'd like to see them succeed, so it is about time he gave them a run out! Success so far: = John Brayford Shaun Barker Disappointments so far: = Gareth Roberts Steve Davies Lee Croft Russell Anderson David Martin Luke Varney Chris Porter Not sure 50/50: = James Bailey Tomasz Cywka Saul Deeney Conor Doyle Ben Pringle Jake Buxton Ben Davies Loans so not worth it imo: Alberto Bueno (add Kuqi and Moore who unless we signed them it is NOT worth the trouble) Overall Clough has had to offload massive amounts of players, fair enough, yet there are only 2 of his signings (imo) that have been successful. I am not happy with Clough and after Saturdays attack on Tomasz Cywkwa I don't think he is worthy of being manager of DCFC. odd choices as Varney and SDavies weren't signed by Clough also can't argue that Davies, Anderson and Porter wouldn't of been good signings if they didn't get injured. Porters injury has finished his career, this will be his last year in the game.. I know someone with the same problem and he can't run, if it wasn't for the pain numbing injections before every game, he wouldn't be playing. SDavies, great technical ability but just always seems injured, different things every time... on the face of it, very unlucky. and Anderson when he played last season, we was at our strongest defensively.. only conceeded 8 goals in the last 3 months at home or something daft, could argue that was more down to Barker but definitely had a good partnership going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 £3mill for Claude Davis :frown: That amount of overhaul, and barely anything to patch the team back up and still people are calling for his head. Bullard earns around £50k a week, he's on loan and doubt Ipswich have covered 100% of his wages. Hull have a bigger debt than us, in a similar position to us as well with a similar chairman...offloading to that manager. Sickening. We've been royally screwed over the past few years. Clough doesn't deserve the negative comments he gets, seems like people are so against him now they'll jump on anything he does or doesn't do. Which game was it when he didn't come out for an interview? He was so pissed off with a different result. This time, he's pissed off with the result, and is slated still. Everyone says things in the heat of the moment, i wish he didn't say it, if only to keep the anti brigade quiet. But looking at that list, and the squad he had when he took over, blimey! Well done Clough. Well done board for cutting the debt, bravo, but if you don't invest into the playing squad soon, you're doing yourself no good. Back Clough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My view is that we should stop taking on loan players. I'd then like to see Academy players used, especially on the subs bench. Of players Clough has signed, I'd like to see them succeed, so it is about time he gave them a run out! Success so far: = John Brayford Shaun Barker Disappointments so far: = Gareth Roberts Steve Davies Lee Croft Russell Anderson David Martin Luke Varney Chris Porter Not sure 50/50: = James Bailey Tomasz Cywka Saul Deeney Conor Doyle Ben Pringle Jake Buxton Ben Davies Loans so not worth it imo: Alberto Bueno (add Kuqi and Moore who unless we signed them it is NOT worth the trouble) Overall Clough has had to offload massive amounts of players, fair enough, yet there are only 2 of his signings (imo) that have been successful. I am not happy with Clough and after Saturdays attack on Tomasz Cywkwa I don't think he is worthy of being manager of DCFC. Ok then looking at the list except for Commons and Hulse. Now Commons left for the money and was not going to sign. Hulse left for football terms in other words was not going to be playing until afte Christmas due to achilles injury. He was not going to sign a new contract for less money because lets be honest that was what the board would have been offering. Therefore it comes to the decision again do we risk him being fit for the second half of the season or do we get money for someone who has got to get fit and not sign a new contract. But that is a debate for another thread. Now the question without those two looking at the initial thread and the question posed by the author who would you keep over the players playing at the moment. Sensible answers and justifications not just names. For me personally I WOULD NOT HAVE ANY OF THEM. The team now is better and young and will be here for next three to four years at least. The only thing that is missing is experience. I would have Oakley back any day (the one who we replaced Sav with under Jewell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 odd choices as Varney and SDavies weren't signed by Clough also can't argue that Davies, Anderson and Porter wouldn't of been good signings if they didn't get injured. Porters injury has finished his career, this will be his last year in the game.. I know someone with the same problem and he can't run, if it wasn't for the pain numbing injections before every game, he wouldn't be playing. SDavies, great technical ability but just always seems injured, different things every time... on the face of it, very unlucky. and Anderson when he played last season, we was at our strongest defensively.. only conceeded 8 goals in the last 3 months at home or something daft, could argue that was more down to Barker but definitely had a good partnership going. Sorry, my mistake over the players Clough didn't sign, however, he decided to keep them, or sent them out on loan etc. I'm disappointed with Clough and feel that his time is coming to an end. Whilst I still think The Yanks are at fault also for their lack of investment, Nigel has acted recklessly imo on his dealings with players. Lose at home to Leicester on Saturday (which I fully expect we will) and the fans will turn against The Board and possibly Nigel as well imo. Crunch time at PPS methinks New Manager? Steve McClaren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Sorry, my mistake over the players Clough didn't sign, however, he decided to keep them, or sent them out on loan etc. I'm disappointed with Clough and feel that his time is coming to an end. Whilst I still think The Yanks are at fault also for their lack of investment, Nigel has acted recklessly imo on his dealings with players. Lose at home to Leicester on Saturday (which I fully expect we will) and the fans will turn against The Board and possibly Nigel as well imo. Crunch time at PPS methinks New Manager? Steve McClaren Fans come and go as they please, the thing is, the board will not relent and Clough isn't the type to quit. What other instances apart from yesterday do you think Clough acted recklessly in his dealings with players? Playing Leacock out of his usual position at DCFC, sure. The thing with Kuqi and Moore was forward thinking, only for Moore to bugger off to Wales. I expect Clough was hoping to loan him for the rest of the season and then sign him for free at the end. Moore screwed him there. Otherwise, i don't see your point. Steve McClaren as manager, come on, where do people pluck up these crazy idea's from? He's still manager at Wolfsburg anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Sorry, my mistake over the players Clough didn't sign, however, he decided to keep them, or sent them out on loan etc. I'm disappointed with Clough and feel that his time is coming to an end. Whilst I still think The Yanks are at fault also for their lack of investment, Nigel has acted recklessly imo on his dealings with players. Lose at home to Leicester on Saturday (which I fully expect we will) and the fans will turn against The Board and possibly Nigel as well imo. Crunch time at PPS methinks New Manager? Steve McClaren What??? Shows how much you have though this through. Our board pay bottle tops for players and you think we would get Steve McClaren who is in Europe isn't it Wolfsburgh who are pushing into Europe etc. Anti-Clough brigade at present equals support the board. You can't have both go and both won't go. You get rid of Clough you still have these tight fisted yanks ******** in charge of club. Clough has not spent on his signings the same as Billy Davis did on Claude Davis and Jewell on Hulse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 All this post says is that NC inherited a squad bordering on relegation, full of high earners, and that any sane manager would not have kept.. Don't really see the Pro-Clough side of this. I repeat, any manager would have got rid of those awful players, so Clough can not be congratulated on bring the wage down, as Joe Bloggs could and would have done it.. And not only that, Clough has brought in his own team, only to be 3 points better off, and you call that progression from the other lot! and now he's slating his own players that he bought saying they're not good enough.. Well who bought them? Clough is IMO quite a poor manager. His statements of 'if they're not upto it we'll move onto the next lot' is ridiculous, it's like he's taking Roy Keanes machine gun tactic to signings, basically keep signing until they finally fit. He lacks motivational skills, a key factor to being a good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Anti-Clough brigade at present equals support the board . There's no such thing as the anti-Clough brigade. Everyone is pro-Derby. just some - including me - think Nigel is having a negative influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There's no such thing as the anti-Clough brigade. Everyone is pro-Derby. just some - including me - think Nigel is having a negative influence That's called being anti Clough. Of course we're all pro Derby, i bloody hope so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What??? Shows how much you have though this through. Our board pay bottle tops for players and you think we would get Steve McClaren who is in Europe isn't it Wolfsburgh who are pushing into Europe etc. Anti-Clough brigade at present equals support the board. You can't have both go and both won't go. You get rid of Clough you still have these tight fisted yanks ******** in charge of club. Clough has not spent on his signings the same as Billy Davis did on Claude Davis and Jewell on Hulse. Just my opinion and I stick by it, I'm just PRO-DERBY, not anti anyone apart from those who don't back Derby! Clough was very wrong to publicly criticise one of his players, and it was embarrassing to listen to - this is a fact that 95% of fans tend to agree upon. It was a nasty attack on Radio Derby and if I was his Boss I would sack him. Very unprofessional conduct and no excuses for what he said, it was vindictive, rude and totally out of order. Not what I want from any Manager representing DCFC. I have supported Clough up to now, but that was the final straw for me, and proved he cannot cope with the responsibilty and Professional Management of my Club. I personally now think Clough has had his chance, and yes, it has been difficult, but he is not doing it, and results prove that. We cannot carry on with him as he brings nothing to DCFC - other than the family name. At least McClaren knows a bit about Coaching and dealing with players at a high level. Clough has shot his load and is totally to blame for the on-field demise. Chances are we wouldn't get McClaren, as The Yanks won't part with any money. As for Clough, I have lost respect for him totally after the viscious attack on Cwkwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm just PRO-DERBY, not anti anyone I have supported Clough up to now, but that was the final straw for me. Clough has had his chance.... but we cannot carry on with him. I have lost respect for him totally after the viscious attack on Cwkwa yes that about sums it up for me too. UTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimacked Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just think back to the squad Nigel inherited. Let's be honest, they weren't heading for promotion were they? They were on a friggin fortune though. Has he made us worse? Or has he got us operating on a sound footing. Shed the ***** we were carrying. Mo Camara Andy Todd Paris Simmons Mile Sterjovski Tyrone Mears Emanuel Villa Liam Dickinson Roy Carroll Lewin Nyatanga Claude Davis MArtin Albretchsen Jordan Stewart Giles Barnes Ruben Zadkovich Aleksandr Prijovic Darren Powell. Paul Connolly Jay Mac Gary Teale Lee Hendrie Just to give some perspective of the high earning squad that he came to. Can people see the vast task he had. The way some people talk about Nigel Clough you'd think he'd taken over a team on the verge of breaking in the Premier League. The ones that saw the PL got battered weekly and the ones that were brought to take us back there were fighting a relegation battle at the foot of the Championship. I'm not here saying Nigel is faultless. But look at the situation he came into. Lets just try and get some perspective here. We weren't very good when he got here. 5 points clear of relegation when Jewell resigned i think i read. 5 points clear of relegation when Jewell resigned and with gigantic squad on some pretty ridiculous wages. I find it impossible to see how Nigel Clough can be criticised for what he's done at Derby. WE ARE NO WORSE OFF. Some might say we're not much better off. Well, maybe that's a good point. Then it's about opinions on whether we're just a few players away from being succesful or whether Nigel has got a long long way to go. Looking at what we're capable of (during our good run) i'd say we're not too far. Looking at our bad runs, i'd say what Nigel does next in terms of signings is how he will be measured in terms of acheivement. (providing he gets investment.) I can understand the jury being out on Nigel Clough. He's yet to prove his team is better than what he began with. IMO it plays better football. It looks more promising. But how can people be wanting him gone? Has he not achieved enough at Derby to deserve some investment? And possibly a little more time? It's all about opinions on how much time he needs. But it's a bit unfair to expect him to get rid of that lot above and replace them with much, much better squad in the time he's had and with the money he's spent. Give him more time and a little cash. Then we can see what he's made of. Agree with most of that. People are annoyed with him after he blew his top after another big dissapointment and the team let him down, a player he has shown patience with let him down. He is only human. The board need to back him with funds not just keep him hanging from a thin thread with no resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghRam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 2 years later and we're 8 points clear of relegation, that's progress. well yes actually it is, factor in that we've reduced the wage bill massively and he's done a very good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Here goes re his signings Roberts - went for experience in defence needed this, watching him versus us always played well just not settled, on a free transfer worth a punt so can understand this. Deeney - board will not sanction two first choice goalies he is only every going to be used if Bywater gets injured or sent off in game so fits the purpose and was free and cheap so again can understand this. Barker - Can't believe you asked this one watched him the season before we brought him at home where if it was not for him stopping the attacks it would have been more than 4-1. Croft - England U21, free transfer, had one good season with Norwich (the year they went down) touted as a promosing player in championship and everyone wanted him to sign. Very quick, never gave up the tackle just lacked the finishing and crossing after the first few weeks so yes. Martin - people are asking why he has not played, both metgod and clough saying he could not get his head around the 4231 formation and has been loaned out for month to get first team practice now moving to 442 may get more game time again free transfer so yes would have him as he is young showing promise Porter - At the time knocking them in for fun for Motherwell, Cardiff after him but for once managed to get him first. When he first arrived looked good and linked well with Hulse. I can remember the Swansea Derby game his first start 2-2. We then play I think Bristol City the week after got hit by late tackle which started the hip. For 400,000 again I would have brought him. Just been unlucky and honestly think we missed out a strupar type of player and even though fit don't think he will ever get his game confidence back - shame Doyle - To early to say picking up internation caps at U20 and U21 looks a prospect and guess what free so why not give him a go he will be cheap and can do a job if needed Pringle - This becoming a bit of a common theme with players, again free, given a chance to develop he is a young player to be used as backup when required never let us down so again for what he has been brought in for yes. Anderson - Another yes free again, wants to play for derby with a passion. Did himself no favours at Leeds when he played with the groin injury in first half because he knew Barker not ready and was still carrying a knock and also Leacock struggling. Played nearly 40mins to help the side out. Best defensive run was him and Barker and plays his heart out. Unlucky to be injured and yes would have signed him missed him this year. Buxton - May not be the best but he never let us down last year played with injuries including severe back injury which he is still recovering from to ensure we had a central defence. May not be the quickest but he is back up and at the moment I wish he was fit because he is better than Leacock because at least he concentrates and does not get booked or sent off. free transfer and brought in as backup so yes for these purposes. Moxey - just has good as Moxey sold to fund bids elsewhere wish he was still here so that answers that question. Brayford - been our best player Clough knows his abilities and was getting good comments last year so yes again Bailey - as above other championship teams were reported to be interested and again was brought in to develop over time. Came in and has done very well. Overall deal for him and Bailey with eventual add ons reported £1million good business for Derby Ben Davies - Yes if you had been to watch him and watched highlights of game you would realise he is an excellant dead ball speacialist and for £300,000 very good business. Now in total I make that 8 free transfers who will not be on big money 5 players totalling £3million but not at all at once installments and add ons. Players out Mo Camara - contract terminated Andy Todd - contract expired Paris Simmons - contract expired Mile Sterjovski - moved for an undisclosed fee Tyrone Mears -£600,000 with add ons Emanuel Villa - £1.7million Liam Dickinson - £300,000 Roy Carroll - contract cancelled Lewin Nyatanga - no info available belived to be 400,000 Claude Davis - contract cancelled MArtin Albretchsen - contract cancelled Jordan Stewart - swap deal Giles Barnes - released Ruben Zadkovich - contract cancelled Aleksandr Prijovic - nominal fee suggest £100,000 at most Darren Powell. - contract expired Paul Connolly - contract expired Jay Mac - contract expired Gary Teale - contract expired Lee Hendrie - contract expired Rob Hulse - Reported as £1million signing Kris Commons - £300,000 Moxey - £450,000 That means transfer money coming in as £4,450,000. This means GSE has banked £1,450,000. Now look at the players above the players on Prem wages majority was signed by Davis and Jewell in the prem year or the year after relegation so on top of this there is a reported £6million reduction in wages. This means the restrictions in place has resulted in GSE recouping and a majority of these went last year apart from bottom four. Reported wages for the bottom 3 players on list equate to approx £2million savings on wages this year alone. Therefore with transfers in over the last two years, the £4million reduction of wages (if reported £6million is correct for this year this £4million relates to the players being here last yr -Moxey, commons, hulse) last year and a further £6million of wage reduction this year means GSE has recouped under Clough reign of nearly £11.5 million over two years. Remember this is after transfer fees paid out. Now looking at this name ANY manager who can work with these constraints and do a good job, deliver for the fans on a weekly basis, not feel stress with the odd outburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Firstly you included Hendrie in your initial post, he was signed by Nigel not inherited and therefore not someone he was forced to get rid of, he chose to because he was so poor, nothing forced about that one. 2nd the bit about finances and figures. The players that had their contract cancelled would not have walked for free they would have had heir contracts paid off, I may have missed that bit (as read it when tired before heading to work) but did you factor that into your financial maths? When Nigel took over he said they had to get rid of players both practically (as we had too big a squad to keep all the players happy) and financially but we had a good nucleus of 22 players that we will work with. So in other words we trimmed the fat, the excess. And kept the good core that is all he wanted. I think, but not as sure as the above so tell me if I made this up, that he also said he didn't want or see the need for such a big squad (paraphrasing and again if I'm wrong let me know) I know that there is, and rightly so, the counter argument that even if we have a good 22 that Nigel hasn't been afforded the proper finances to alter that 22 as he see's fit. To be fair no manager is given all the money they want (apart from Man City) to replace who they want but we have been a little extreme in this case. He can't realise a player isnt up to scratch and find a replacement, I'd say tough luck if he purchased the player but for a player he inhereted then it's not something he can be blamed for. But he still hasn't got any more out of these players than Jewell did (you'll never convince me that winning one game instead of drawing 1 over the course of a season is such a sign of progress to indicate he's the right man or is taking us forward, also he took over when we were 18th in the league and we finished that season 18th but that's considered as 'saving us from relegation' a little over dramatic if you ask me, he kept us in 18th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I dont know why clough is being praised for letting 8 players who are out of contract go and paying off 5 players. Is this now classed as good football managment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I suppose others look at in a slightly different way, i.e, that he HAD to clear them out, get the wages back under control, Not have all the money raised to spend on new players AND maintain the level the club was at when he came.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamDog Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Geez .... I didn't even rate him in the A-League. What were they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 All this post says is that NC inherited a squad bordering on relegation, full of high earners, and that any sane manager would not have kept.. Don't really see the Pro-Clough side of this. I repeat, any manager would have got rid of those awful players, so Clough can not be congratulated on bring the wage down, as Joe Bloggs could and would have done it.. And not only that, Clough has brought in his own team, only to be 3 points better off, and you call that progression from the other lot! and now he's slating his own players that he bought saying they're not good enough.. Well who bought them? Clough is IMO quite a poor manager. His statements of 'if they're not upto it we'll move onto the next lot' is ridiculous, it's like he's taking Roy Keanes machine gun tactic to signings, basically keep signing until they finally fit. He lacks motivational skills, a key factor to being a good manager. Agree totally that any half decent manager would've shifted most if not all of those players on. I'm sure most would've let Pearson go as well, because, despite Alex's love of him, he's clearly crap... I appreciate he hasn't had a great deal of support money wise but out of the players he's brought in only Barker, Brayford & Bailey have had an impact and are better than what was here before he took over. And no, I don't count Bueno as someone he brought in because he was recommended to Metog by the Spain manager so that doesn't really count. Berate Jewell as much as you like but the fact remains that the better players in our squad at the start of the season (Hulse, Commons, Green, Davies *maybe*) were brought in by him. Also he was the one who gave Addison a chance to shine... Yes he's done a half decent job up until now but he could be doing better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thats the point though, Jewell had the money to bring in Commons, Hulse etc, Clough's had nowt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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