Where our young stars end up

[Ghost of Clough]

A comparison of the main academy products since 1980:

Then there will be:
Delap, Ebiowei, Williams (2003)
Moloney, Gordon, Ryan (2004)
DRobinson, Kellyman, Sharpe (2005)
JThompson, Scanlon, Kaba (2006)

[Guest]

On 12/07/2022 at 11:58, Crewton said:

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A comparison of the main academy products since 1980:

Then there will be:
Delap, Ebiowei, Williams (2003)
Moloney, Gordon, Ryan (2004)
DRobinson, Kellyman, Sharpe (2005)
JThompson, Scanlon, Kaba (2006)

I think basing this on youth international is not really relevant. There have been a number of other lads over the last 5 years who have been involved in international set ups who are no longer at Derby or even in the game. I also know of one lad who turned England down this summer to concentrate on being ready at Derby this season. There are plenty of lads who play right up to u18/19 internationally who are out the game at 23. 
 

Even looking at Williams, Delap and Ebowei they have not really achieved anything in the game yet and are still 2/3 years away from being at their “level”.
 

The academy has produced a good number of players in comparison to others around it over the last few years but it still can not compete with the big clubs. Even within Cat 1 clubs there is another set of tiers and Derby don’t sit anywhere near the top tier of them.

in reality if a lad has a chance of playing top flight he will be bought and will leave to go to a top club because of it doesn’t work out there he will have more options than staying at Derby and the chances are it won’t work out.. even at Derby. 

The pathway at Derby has been more of necessity than anything else over the last few seasons and as patience thins as a demand for promotion builds then young players will find themselves sidelined again at the expense of experience.

Derby County academy is a good academy with great facilities but the last 2 years have done damage and the impact of that will be felt in the next 2/3 years until the rebuild starts to impact again. 

[vonwright]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A comparison of the main academy products since 1980:

Then there will be:
Delap, Ebiowei, Williams (2003)
Moloney, Gordon, Ryan (2004)
DRobinson, Kellyman, Sharpe (2005)
JThompson, Scanlon, Kaba (2006)

Interesting. You'd have to say some serious quality came out of the Forest academy in the late 1990s/early 2000s. 

Of our list I guess Huddlestone, Hughes and Hendrick are the only ones who played regularly at the highest level, and of those Huddlestone stands out as having a significantly better career.

We will see where the younger ones end up. 

[vonwright]

1 minute ago, vonwright said:

Interesting. You'd have to say some serious quality came out of the Forest academy in the late 1990s/early 2000s. 

...although just read that Forest released Shaun Wright-Phillips because he was 'too small'.

Ha.

[jimtastic56]

It’s also interesting how sons of good footballers do at academies. Delap could be one of the best, city are taking their time with him as they did Foden. I can remember Scot Gemmil and Nigel making it but Des Walkers sons and Wassel not so good.

[RamuelLJackson]

7 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

Some interesting thoughts on this. Forest have always produced better youngsters than us - maybe because it is a large city.

On a side note - who is the best footballer Derby have produced? Either from youth teams or the reserves.

Steve Powell, maybe?

[plymouthram]

On 14/07/2022 at 08:57, Ghost of Clough said:

The difference is that Forest's academy setup is well established. Darlow is 31 for example. Bamford 28, Lascelles 28, Osborn 27, Burke 25, Worrall 25, Cash 24, Yates 24, Brereton 23, Johnson 21. Dawson, Reid, Jenas, Morgan and many others before them. 

We started from scratch 10 or so years ago. We had a 5 or so year spell of bringing players through in the Burley era, an another spell in the late 90's, but the club has never had a sustained approach to the academy until now. 

You could argue we got lucky with recruitment, finding Hendrick (30) and Hughes (27) when we did as they were both levels above their peers in our academy at the time. The investment in to our academy has brought a lot more consistency to the players we're producing, as well as the overall ability. It's why the other players who're 23+ now are only Championship standard at best.

Forest have Johnson at 21, possibly Mighten next at 20, then probably someone else the year below, then another the year below him, etc...
Derby have Bird, Knight, and Buchanan (now in the Bundesliga) all 21. Sibley, Cashin, Thompson, and Stretton all 20, Ebosele (now Serie A) 19. Delap (19), Williams (18), Gordon (17), Sharpe (16), Scanlon (15), Kaba (15) all poached off us over the past 2 years.
We caught up with Forest, arguably in greater numbers, but the last couple of years will have likely set us back a little bit. Although we do still have a number of youth internationals still with us including DRobinson (17), Moloney (17) and JThompson (15). 

Of course, you won't see where the academy currently is until about 5 years time when these players are at a similar age of the likes of Worrall and Cash.

I think our Academy may have not produced many top Premiership players as much as the like of Chelsea & Man City, but the amount of players we have put through the door that's compared with other clubs is quite high. Even though most have been average Premiership or good Championship, we produce a lot more than plenty of other clubs in the Championship and some of the Premiership clubs. Then you get players like Plange who was binned by Arsenal and Malcolm Ebiowei binned by Chelsea, Arsenal and Rangers who are now with Palace. Players like this not making progress/impressions at a bigger club will be enticed to come to Derby's Academy on the strength of our reputation in the last 10 years or so. What we need to do now we are out of administration is tie down the best ones into 2 or 3 yr contracts.

I take my hat off to previous owners of the club who invested in our Academy and a lot of credit goes to Darren Wassall.

[richinspain]

On 14/07/2022 at 21:57, RamuelLJackson said:

Steve Powell, maybe?

Ron Webster and Peter Daniel too.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, plymouthram said:

I think our Academy may have not produced many top Premiership players as much as the like of Chelsea & Man City, but the amount of players we have put through the door that's compared with other clubs is quite high. Even though most have been average Premiership or good Championship, we produce a lot more than plenty of other clubs in the Championship and some of the Premiership clubs. Then you get players like Plange who was binned by Arsenal and Malcolm Ebiowei binned by Chelsea, Arsenal and Rangers who are now with Palace. Players like this not making progress/impressions at a bigger club will be enticed to come to Derby's Academy on the strength of our reputation in the last 10 years or so. What we need to do now we are out of administration is tie down the best ones into 2 or 3 yr contracts.

I take my hat off to previous owners of the club who invested in our Academy and a lot of credit goes to Darren Wassall.

Derby were top 10 a few years ago accordingly to the Premier League (who monitor Cat 1s) for number of players produced with professional deals. 
 

The number going into the first team has been more on necessity recently and I would expect that number to drop over the next season or two as the club relies on experience in the rebuild. The last truly good year was the u18s who won the u18PL and included Sibley, Bird, etc… and that year the academy has a number of very high quality coaches. 
 

The last few years have been a bit leaner and honestly in comparison the Academy is not even in the top 10 now. The next few years has some excellent talent still in it from 2nd year scholar down to u16 in similar numbers to that u18PL winning side but they won’t make the as many starts in the first team which is good as it allows them to develop better. 
 

I’m not knocking the academy but it isn’t as good as it was and whilst it has produced some good players it’s not better than most but it can hold its own. I personally feel that the next few years will be another batch of top quality players coming through and hopefully developing away from some of the pressure of the first team instead of being rushed through out of necessity. 

 

[Crewton]

9 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

Derby were top 10 a few years ago accordingly to the Premier League (who monitor Cat 1s) for number of players produced with professional deals. 
 

The number going into the first team has been more on necessity recently and I would expect that number to drop over the next season or two as the club relies on experience in the rebuild. The last truly good year was the u18s who won the u18PL and included Sibley, Bird, etc… and that year the academy has a number of very high quality coaches. 
 

The last few years have been a bit leaner and honestly in comparison the Academy is not even in the top 10 now. The next few years has some excellent talent still in it from 2nd year scholar down to u16 in similar numbers to that u18PL winning side but they won’t make the as many starts in the first team which is good as it allows them to develop better. 
 

I’m not knocking the academy but it isn’t as good as it was and whilst it has produced some good players it’s not better than most but it can hold its own. I personally feel that the next few years will be another batch of top quality players coming through and hopefully developing away from some of the pressure of the first team instead of being rushed through out of necessity. 

 

Not sure I agree with that assessment. The U-19s lost in the final of the UEFA Youth League to RB Salzburg in March of 2020 - that's only a little over 2 years ago. If the Academy has reduced in quality since then, it's not too surprising due to cutbacks, but since the middle of 2019, we've had at least 8 under 17s that I can think of poached by Elite clubs, plus Villa, Norwich and Brighton, seen Plange and Ebiowei move to Palace, Williams to Chelsea, Ebosele to Serie A, Buchanan to the Bundesliga, and yet still brought through Bird, Knight, Sibley, Cashin, Stretton and Thompson into the First Team Squad, with Cybulski, Richards, Aghatise, Robinson (and anyone else I've forgotten) into the fringes of the squad. It feels like, to me at least, that the Academy has been excelling itself against the odds and it's clear that PL clubs (and similar clubs in Europe) view it as being an excellent development place for young talent.

To my mind, the only way we can actually improve on what's been achieved would be to hang on to the talent and at least realise top value for them.