World of crypto

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I look forward to it. I'm struggling to see how a "miner" working on solving mathematical problems (is that what they do?) are able to harness wasted electricity and subsequently make it available for remote communities. 

It's all a mystery to me. In my ignorance it seems that cryptocurrency mining is not much more than just a game that doesn't create anything tangible. I don't understand why it takes so much energy to undertake such mining. I appreciate it must just be missing something. My head hurts.

just found these two articles whilst packing up at work, give a little insight as to where the bitcoin community want to take things.
 

ill try dig out the talk from btc atlantis that covered mining in  african / latin american countries and how btc is enabling companies to bring electricity to communities that previously it was unsustainable to do so   
 

https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/11/02/bitcoin-miner-marathon-tests-btc-mining-with-methane-gas-from-waste-landfill/amp/

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-mining-can-help-fight-methane-emissions#

Edit:

cant find the talk atm… but below is one of a number of growing case studies where mining btc is brining affordable / renewable electricity to places where previously impossible to do

  https://hackernoon.com/no-power-grid-this-african-village-mines-bitcoin-for-electricity
 

Edited March 15 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

https://unherd.com/2024/01/the-african-village-mining-bitcoin/
 

To me this is revolutionary … if u live in a part of the world where previously you could only dream of having electricity. 

[Stive Pesley]

14 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

https://unherd.com/2024/01/the-african-village-mining-bitcoin/
 

To me this is revolutionary … if u live in a part of the world where previously you could only dream of having electricity. 

It's a little light in detail, but seems to be saying that they have installed three hydro turbines that give the village electricity. Whatever excess electricity they generate is used to run a BTC mining rig, but it doesn't really explain what happens to any BTC they successfully mine. Who owns it? 

How much can they realistically mine? After halving there will only be around 400 BTC mined daily across the whole globe, so how much one village with a water  powered generator can mine is probably going to be quite small

If you scale this up, it just means the rewards are spread more thinly

Not convinced

[NottsRam77]

26 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

It's a little light in detail, but seems to be saying that they have installed three hydro turbines that give the village electricity. Whatever excess electricity they generate is used to run a BTC mining rig, but it doesn't really explain what happens to any BTC they successfully mine. Who owns it? 

How much can they realistically mine? After halving there will only be around 400 BTC mined daily across the whole globe, so how much one village with a water  powered generator can mine is probably going to be quite small

If you scale this up, it just means the rewards are spread more thinly

Not convinced

I taking this from the talks i sat through at btc atlantis, but The btc they make from mining is used to fund the infrastructure that otherwise wouldnt be possible to maintain. So without the miners the whole premise of providing electricity to these places wouldnt be possible… the btc pays for the upkeep of the electrical grid so to speak.

re less btc available to mine…. This is true … but u know the price has gone up exponentially every time there is a halving (every 4 years) so ?

so in lemans terms mining 100 bitcoin 10 years ago at that current price wouldnt be as lucrative as mining half a bitcoin now at todays prices

Which is the whole point of bitcoin … its a deflationary asset .. something were not used to 

[Eddie]

39 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

I taking this from the talks i sat through at btc atlantis, but The btc they make from mining is used to fund the infrastructure that otherwise wouldnt be possible to maintain. So without the miners the whole premise of providing electricity to these places wouldnt be possible… the btc pays for the upkeep of the electrical grid so to speak.

re less btc available to mine…. This is true … but u know the price has gone up exponentially every time there is a halving (every 4 years) so ?

so in lemans terms mining 100 bitcoin 10 years ago at that current price wouldnt be as lucrative as mining half a bitcoin now at todays prices

Which is the whole point of bitcoin … its a deflationary asset .. something were not used to 

So basically a pyramid scheme where in order to reap the equivalent benefits now as you did then, you need to work that much harder?

 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

I taking this from the talks i sat through at btc atlantis, but The btc they make from mining is used to fund the infrastructure that otherwise wouldnt be possible to maintain. So without the miners the whole premise of providing electricity to these places wouldnt be possible… the btc pays for the upkeep of the electrical grid so to speak.

Wow - so it's pure exploitation? The "saviours" in the developed world give them some free electricity, and in return they get a constant source of free BTC. That's pretty grim

[NottsRam77]

59 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Wow - so it's pure exploitation? The "saviours" in the developed world give them some free electricity, and in return they get a constant source of free BTC. That's pretty grim

Not sure how u come to that conclusion😂

The btc is used to pay for the infrastructure and maintanance of the grid. 
an electrical grid doesnt just wire itself up and maintain itself… there is also the issue of lost energy which is a global problem.. an energy grids usage isnt just a constant usage no matter what time of day and night… 5pm everyone home from work, kettles go on, ovens go on, lights go on.. so a grid needs to be able to hold and store for that surge in demand but then if it has that capacity then at 2 in the morning when everyone is asleep theres loads of wasted electricity and money.

bitcoin monetises this wastage and makes the grid … in a remote part of the world sustainable 

 why do u think we pay a daily standing charge ? It isnt just to make the shareholders rich… actually .. scratch that lol
 

ask yourself a question

[NottsRam77]

50 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Not sure how u come to that conclusion😂

The btc is used to pay for the infrastructure and maintanance of the grid. 
an electrical grid doesnt just wire itself up and maintain itself… there is also the issue of lost energy which is a global problem.. an energy grids usage isnt just a constant usage no matter what time of day and night… 5pm everyone home from work, kettles go on, ovens go on, lights go on.. so a grid needs to be able to hold and store for that surge in demand but then if it has that capacity then at 2 in the morning when everyone is asleep theres loads of wasted electricity and money.

bitcoin monetises this wastage and makes the grid … in a remote part of the world sustainable 

 why do u think we pay a daily standing charge ? It isnt just to make the shareholders rich… actually .. scratch that lol
 

ask yourself a question

Ignore the “ask yourself a question” at the end. Forgot to delete that 😂😂😂 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Not sure how u come to that conclusion😂

The btc is used to pay for the infrastructure and maintanance of the grid. 
an electrical grid doesnt just wire itself up and maintain itself… there is also the issue of lost energy which is a global problem.. an energy grids usage isnt just a constant usage no matter what time of day and night… 5pm everyone home from work, kettles go on, ovens go on, lights go on.. so a grid needs to be able to hold and store for that surge in demand but then if it has that capacity then at 2 in the morning when everyone is asleep theres loads of wasted electricity and money.

bitcoin monetises this wastage and makes the grid … in a remote part of the world sustainable 

 why do u think we pay a daily standing charge ? It isnt just to make the shareholders rich… actually .. scratch that lol
 

Well, yeah I get all that, but are you really saying that ALL the BTC that these villages mine = the exact cost of the maintenance of the equipment? Whatever - the BTC ends up in the wallets of the people who supply and maintain the equipment. They will be making a huge profit - especially given the current trajectory of BTC value

I guess that I naively thought these third world villages were getting electricity AND a good chunk of the BTC they mine

It's classic colonialism

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well, yeah I get all that, but are you really saying that ALL the BTC that these villages mine = the exact cost of the maintenance of the equipment? Whatever - the BTC ends up in the wallets of the people who supply and maintain the equipment. They will be making a huge profit - especially given the current trajectory of BTC value

I guess that I naively thought these third world villages were getting electricity AND a good chunk of the BTC they mine

It's classic colonialism

Iv no idea of the exact ins and outs of where and who gets any excess btc 

the point is these communities have the option of free electricity ….. something they have never had or never dreamed of having at the expense of someone potentially harvesting some profit

think its called a win win situation

i mean … lets say u live with no electricity and someone offers u it for free … but they make a bit too?

u going to turn that down and carry on living in the dark ? 
 

lets not muck about.. having electricity in any walk of life is game / life changing 

to give an example… i run a small business that has quite high electricity costs … if a company came along and offered me free electricity by putting solar panels on the roof but on the condition that any surplus energy or btc they mined from it is theres u think id give a crap that theyre making off it ? 
think its called a symbiotic relationship 

Edited March 16 by NottsRam77

[Stive Pesley]

53 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

think its called a symbiotic relationship 

Doesn't seem a very balanced one - it is classic colonialism whichever way you look at it

 

[NottsRam77]

45 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Doesn't seem a very balanced one - it is classic colonialism whichever way you look at it

 

Have to agree to disagree on that one 👍

[NottsRam77]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

So basically a pyramid scheme where in order to reap the equivalent benefits now as you did then, you need to work that much harder?

 

No its called scarcity aka deflation

Something no other asset or currency on the planet has or is 

its a hard concept as were trained to believe that everything is and should be inflationary

we expect prices to go up… have u ever asked yourself why ?

Not an arsey question.. genuinely 

i had to ask for the reason myself 

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Have to agree to disagree on that one 👍

Yeah fair enough. I can see the benefits - but it's easy to look at it through the lens of a privileged BTC devotee from the developed world. White saviours and all that.

People have been living in Malawi without electricity for literally thousands of years. It's funny how giving it to them now - when there is muchos bitcoin to be made using their land and their resources, that we suddenly get so benevolent

Another laughing emoji incoming for me from the resident blackshirts 😂

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah fair enough. I can see the benefits - but it's easy to look at it through the lens of a privileged BTC devotee from the developed world. White saviours and all that.

People have been living in Malawi without electricity for literally thousands of years. It's funny how giving it to them now - when there is muchos bitcoin to be made using their land and their resources, that we suddenly get so benevolent

Another laughing emoji incoming for me from the resident blackshirts 😂

Like i said iv no idea how the excess revenues are divied up… maybe the community get some, all , a portion 

i dont know 

[Crewton]

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Doesn't seem a very balanced one - it is classic colonialism whichever way you look at it

 

Yeah, "forty acres and a mule" springs to mind.

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well, yeah I get all that, but are you really saying that ALL the BTC that these villages mine = the exact cost of the maintenance of the equipment? Whatever - the BTC ends up in the wallets of the people who supply and maintain the equipment. They will be making a huge profit - especially given the current trajectory of BTC value

I guess that I naively thought these third world villages were getting electricity AND a good chunk of the BTC they mine

It's classic colonialism

It's a free micro-grid. I spent 8 years in sub-Saharan Africa deploying similar grids, though they were typically financed by the governments in each country and all the energy harnessed was used by the villages in which we deployed them. As for the mining, can you explain what work you think is being done by the locals? I'm not sure that allowing excess GPU capacity to be used for mining really constitutes labour of any kind, and even less so, exploitation. 

My understanding is that the installers provide the micro-grid FoC and villagers enjoy the benefits that brings with any spare GPU capacity being used to mine bitcoin which is in turn used to cover maintenance costs. I don't know how much you know about the mining side, but I can categorically state that with 32 likely fairly low end GPUs, nobody will be making 'huge profits' and even if they were, are the villagers not in a far better position than they are without electricity and if not, can you explain why? 

As for you, @NottsRam77 you need to read the stuff you post. You've completely misunderstood the Bitcoin angle here. BTC is not producing any clean energy in the scenario you've presented save for that used to data mine, so tell me, outside of the energy available to the village, where's the benefit you claim. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that you actually put more people off the idea of investing in BTC rather than the opposite as you do not understand the bulk of what you post and you make absurd claims you are unable to substantiate and this is coming from someone who has both invested in BTC and mined it. 

[NottsRam77]

8 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

It's a free micro-grid. I spent 8 years in sub-Saharan Africa deploying similar grids, though they were typically financed by the governments in each country and all the energy harnessed was used by the villages in which we deployed them. As for the mining, can you explain what work you think is being done by the locals? I'm not sure that allowing excess GPU capacity to be used for mining really constitutes labour of any kind, and even less so, exploitation. 

My understanding is that the installers provide the micro-grid FoC and villagers enjoy the benefits that brings with any spare GPU capacity being used to mine bitcoin which is in turn used to cover maintenance costs. I don't know how much you know about the mining side, but I can categorically state that with 32 likely fairly low end GPUs, nobody will be making 'huge profits' and even if they were, are the villagers not in a far better position than they are without electricity and if not, can you explain why? 

As for you, @NottsRam77 you need to read the stuff you post. You've completely misunderstood the Bitcoin angle here. BTC is not producing any clean energy in the scenario you've presented save for that used to data mine, so tell me, outside of the energy available to the village, where's the benefit you claim. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that you actually put more people off the idea of investing in BTC rather than the opposite as you do not understand the bulk of what you post and you make absurd claims you are unable to substantiate and this is coming from someone who has both invested in BTC and mined it. 

I was referring to the example i sat and listened to at bitcoin atlantis. 
 

the grid harnessed hydro power that was making use of a water source close the the community.

The whole concept wouldnt have been possible without bitcoin miners monetising the power from the hydro source and providing a revenue source to make it happen

Edited March 17 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

8 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

It's a free micro-grid. I spent 8 years in sub-Saharan Africa deploying similar grids, though they were typically financed by the governments in each country and all the energy harnessed was used by the villages in which we deployed them. As for the mining, can you explain what work you think is being done by the locals? I'm not sure that allowing excess GPU capacity to be used for mining really constitutes labour of any kind, and even less so, exploitation. 

My understanding is that the installers provide the micro-grid FoC and villagers enjoy the benefits that brings with any spare GPU capacity being used to mine bitcoin which is in turn used to cover maintenance costs. I don't know how much you know about the mining side, but I can categorically state that with 32 likely fairly low end GPUs, nobody will be making 'huge profits' and even if they were, are the villagers not in a far better position than they are without electricity and if not, can you explain why? 

As for you, @NottsRam77 you need to read the stuff you post. You've completely misunderstood the Bitcoin angle here. BTC is not producing any clean energy in the scenario you've presented save for that used to data mine, so tell me, outside of the energy available to the village, where's the benefit you claim. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that you actually put more people off the idea of investing in BTC rather than the opposite as you do not understand the bulk of what you post and you make absurd claims you are unable to substantiate and this is coming from someone who has both invested in BTC and mined it. 

Absurd claims?!

think youll find im as clued up as anyone on here regarding btc with due respect

im trying to break it down into lemans terms to someone that thinks providing electricity to a community that have never ever had such a luxuary isnt exploitation and slave labour. 🤦

Edited March 17 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

9 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

It's a free micro-grid. I spent 8 years in sub-Saharan Africa deploying similar grids, though they were typically financed by the governments in each country and all the energy harnessed was used by the villages in which we deployed them. As for the mining, can you explain what work you think is being done by the locals? I'm not sure that allowing excess GPU capacity to be used for mining really constitutes labour of any kind, and even less so, exploitation. 

My understanding is that the installers provide the micro-grid FoC and villagers enjoy the benefits that brings with any spare GPU capacity being used to mine bitcoin which is in turn used to cover maintenance costs. I don't know how much you know about the mining side, but I can categorically state that with 32 likely fairly low end GPUs, nobody will be making 'huge profits' and even if they were, are the villagers not in a far better position than they are without electricity and if not, can you explain why? 

As for you, @NottsRam77 you need to read the stuff you post. You've completely misunderstood the Bitcoin angle here. BTC is not producing any clean energy in the scenario you've presented save for that used to data mine, so tell me, outside of the energy available to the village, where's the benefit you claim. Frankly, I'm beginning to think that you actually put more people off the idea of investing in BTC rather than the opposite as you do not understand the bulk of what you post and you make absurd claims you are unable to substantiate and this is coming from someone who has both invested in BTC and mined it. 

Maybe re read what im saying?

Im not saying btc is providing clean energy … btc is enabling a community to access something that previously was un obtainable to them.

unfortunately money talks in every corner of the globe and by monetising aspects of the energy btc is enabling something that previously hadnt been possible. 

Edited March 17 by NottsRam77