World of crypto

[NottsRam77]

37 minutes ago, cstand said:

Forget he is snake oil salesman.

After admitting false accounting in microstrategy he lost 6 billion dollars in a single day during the dot com bubble.

BTC down 6.6% in last 24hrs still think it’s a store of value?

Pick whichever time frame u want 

its a store of value end of story 

For the record … if we do break the 61/62k support level and dip into the late to mid fifties im buying the feck out of it … might even see if i can sell one of the kids to raise funds lol 

(not financial advice) 

Edited April 13 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

On 10/04/2024 at 13:56, Stive Pesley said:

I think you've highlighted exactly what I find so paradoxical about BTC. People buy it as a "store of value" but it only holds value in relation to FIAT currency. So you can only realise that value by selling it in exchange for the FIAT currency. Which of course leaves you with a fistful of the thing you claim is rubbish and needs to be replaced by BTC. 

The only real way to make money from BTC is to be a miner, or a broker

 

Or just buy and hold 🤷

[Stive Pesley]

24 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Or just buy and hold 🤷

Is that making money though? You only make the money when you cash it in. The people who made the money are those you bought the BTC from 

I realise the logical paradox here, and how it applies to all money (or more accurately spendable currency) but I'm still trying to get my head around the BTC end game. Because it's a speculative asset, if everyone just buys and holds and gets horny about the price going up, how is that deflationary? And if everyone holds then where is the supply?

I dunno. I've only just woken up but I do find it fascinating and I enjoy reading your thoughts @NottsRam77 

Blows my mind that someone just invented a form of money that is essentially just selling cells in spreadsheet for no reason 🤣

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Is that making money though? You only make the money when you cash it in. The people who made the money are those you bought the BTC from 

I realise the logical paradox here, and how it applies to all money (or more accurately spendable currency) but I'm still trying to get my head around the BTC end game. Because it's a speculative asset, if everyone just buys and holds and gets horny about the price going up, how is that deflationary? And if everyone holds then where is the supply?

I dunno. I've only just woken up but I do find it fascinating and I enjoy reading your thoughts @NottsRam77 

Blows my mind that someone just invented a form of money that is essentially just selling cells in spreadsheet for no reason 🤣

😂i know where ur coming from it is a weird concept lol
 

So I bought 3, 6 and 12 months ago all in profit even post potential ww3 dump 

the profit or potential profit depends on your time frames

For the record i didnt buy the above 3,6 and 12 months expecting a profit in those time frames … that isnt investing thats gambling / hoping  

interestingly though, as i mentioned previously just by holding say the 400 quid i put in the other week when i got my eon rebate for my winter overpayments purely by the fact that in a week the pound has gone down to 1.24 from 1.27 against the dollar iv protected the buying power of that 400 quid when measured in the currency i need to survive 

Edited April 14 by NottsRam77

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Is that making money though? You only make the money when you cash it in. The people who made the money are those you bought the BTC from 

I realise the logical paradox here, and how it applies to all money (or more accurately spendable currency) but I'm still trying to get my head around the BTC end game. Because it's a speculative asset, if everyone just buys and holds and gets horny about the price going up, how is that deflationary? And if everyone holds then where is the supply?

I dunno. I've only just woken up but I do find it fascinating and I enjoy reading your thoughts @NottsRam77 

Blows my mind that someone just invented a form of money that is essentially just selling cells in spreadsheet for no reason 🤣

Im saying all this in good faith, not trying to be argumentative or arrogant which is hard to convey in text lol

just i find the whole concept and subject about the macro factors that are affecting our money fascinating and a little worrying

i just think that bitcoin is the answer to protecting my savings over a prolonged period of time. This doesnt mean im not open to others like property, gold stocks and shares .. and diversity is the key obviously and always open to hear others ideas

i just like to try and share what i do and dont know about bitcoin as to many its a totally foreign thing… but i genuinely believe its going to he something we will all want to own down the line

but thats just me 🙏👍 

[NottsRam77]

#snowballing

[NottsRam77]

Annnnnnnnd another … 👀

 

[cstand]

At 4:30 pm today.

FTSE 100 suffers worst day drop in 9 months due to Middle East conflict. Down 1.8% 

Gold up 0.02 % 

Digital Gold/store of value down 2.5% 

 

[NottsRam77]

4 hours ago, cstand said:

At 4:30 pm today.

FTSE 100 suffers worst day drop in 9 months due to Middle East conflict. Down 1.8% 

Gold up 0.02 % 

Digital Gold/store of value down 2.5% 

 

Lol And over the year? 😉
 

bitcoin is volatile , i never said it wasnt , day to day , month to month, but on the greater time scales its outperformed every single other asset class by a stretch 

Personally as iv said before id loce a pull back to 55k … chance for a final bag filling before we lift off

for the record too, pull backs are healthy .. nothing goes up in a straight line 

Edited April 16 by NottsRam77

[Stive Pesley]

I assume that BTC price will also be to some degree be driven by oil prices/energy costs?

Unless I have my thinking wrong, after halving it requires twice as much energy consumption to mine the same amount of coins, so therefore mining costs will double.

If BTC value goes lower than the cost of the energy required to mine the coins, then miners will stop mining, increasing scarcity and driving the BTC price up  until it becomes profitable to mine again

 

[NottsRam77]

5 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I assume that BTC price will also be to some degree be driven by oil prices/energy costs?

Unless I have my thinking wrong, after halving it requires twice as much energy consumption to mine the same amount of coins, so therefore mining costs will double.

If BTC value goes lower than the cost of the energy required to mine the coins, then miners will stop mining, increasing scarcity and driving the BTC price up  until it becomes profitable to mine again

 

Essentially yes absolutely 

this is … with time part of the catalyst / driving force for the post halving price pumps that weve seen 

u could view it costs the same amount of energy to get half the reward .

but its the same difference 👍

 

[Stive Pesley]

17 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Essentially yes absolutely 

this is … with time part of the catalyst / driving force for the post halving price pumps that weve seen 

u could view it costs the same amount of energy to get half the reward .

but its the same difference 👍

 

Thanks for confirming I've not missed the point

Although I understand the technical concept of the halving and the reasons for it - it's a weird one that doesn't translate at all to human behaviour and our concepts of money/work and reward

If you said to a worker - on this set date you will do the same amount of work but we will only pay you 50% of your current wages, or alternatively you can all do twice as much work but for the same wages - they would all quit immediately 

I know that BTC miners are computers and not people, but they still have fixed costs in terms of energy. It's not been practical to mine BTC on a home set up for years due to it costing more in energy that you would ever be able to mine

I know someone who was sys admin at  mid-sized IT company and he set up a mining rig on some unused servers (this was about 10 years ago). He managed to mine some coin but had to switch it off when someone noticed the electricity bill had shot up!

 

[NottsRam77]

On 17/04/2024 at 16:42, Stive Pesley said:

Thanks for confirming I've not missed the point

Although I understand the technical concept of the halving and the reasons for it - it's a weird one that doesn't translate at all to human behaviour and our concepts of money/work and reward

If you said to a worker - on this set date you will do the same amount of work but we will only pay you 50% of your current wages, or alternatively you can all do twice as much work but for the same wages - they would all quit immediately 

I know that BTC miners are computers and not people, but they still have fixed costs in terms of energy. It's not been practical to mine BTC on a home set up for years due to it costing more in energy that you would ever be able to mine

I know someone who was sys admin at  mid-sized IT company and he set up a mining rig on some unused servers (this was about 10 years ago). He managed to mine some coin but had to switch it off when someone noticed the electricity bill had shot up!

 

And thats why the price goes up .. miners stop selling til the price becomes more worth while 

Your right its a crazy concept i agree, largely as u say its unheard of anywhere else 

[NottsRam77]

Historically … its not too late

(Not financial advice) just for reference purposes

[Stive Pesley]

Definitely going to be interesting to see if the halving follows previous patterns. My gut instinct says it won't, but I don't know if it will be better or worse! It's the first halving event since the ETFs got involved, and I suspect that will be influential in a way that we can't predict yet

The next 16 years should be an eye-opener. By the halving in 2040, the reward will be down to 0.09 blocks and there will probably only be a couple of hundred coins mined per year. From there on in - the last 100 years (till the predicted final BTC in 2140), the supply of new coins is going to be so close to zero that we reach the end game. When there is no more supply, and no mining to be done. What do we do with these bitcoins? 🤔

[NottsRam77]

22 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Definitely going to be interesting to see if the halving follows previous patterns. My gut instinct says it won't, but I don't know if it will be better or worse! It's the first halving event since the ETFs got involved, and I suspect that will be influential in a way that we can't predict yet

The next 16 years should be an eye-opener. By the halving in 2040, the reward will be down to 0.09 blocks and there will probably only be a couple of hundred coins mined per year. From there on in - the last 100 years (till the predicted final BTC in 2140), the supply of new coins is going to be so close to zero that we reach the end game. When there is no more supply, and no mining to be done. What do we do with these bitcoins? 🤔

Price wise …. Who knows 

as u say i think it will be different too but we will see.

Re mining wise and no More coins 

theres circa 120 years to get through before that happens. Bitcoin has come a stupidly long way in 15/16 years from geeky internet magic money to a traded global asset that’ll soon be appearing in every pension fund on the planet.

a lot can happen in 120 years lol 😊🙌

[NottsRam77]

Nearly forgot … happy halving day 🥳🥳😊🙌

[Day]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Bitcoin has come a stupidly long way in 15/16 years from geeky internet magic money to a traded global asset that’ll soon be appearing in every pension fund on the planet.

It's still a bit geeky though.

If I was to ask my family and close knit friends group to go and open a savings account and deposit £100 in, without fail, every single of them would be able to do so with no problems.

If I was to as the same people to go and open a stocks and ISA account, deposit £100 and buy Share's in Love Honey or something, without fail, every single one of them would be able to do so with no problems.

Now if I was to ask the same people, go and get yourself a digital wallet and purchase £100 worth of Bitcoin, I don't think one would be able to without asking how, and I couldn't even answer that myself. 

I'm sure you could provide me with YouTube videos and a ton of links how to, yet that's the problem, all the research you have to take to get into it. Which makes it geeky.

And cult like.

I don't mean to disrespect or insult by calling it a cult, however that's exactly what it is. Like the veganism thing, how do you know someone's a vegan? Don't worry, they will tell you. 

Feels like they are all on individual missions to recruit, build their cult following.

You know what? That's a huge turn off for many, including myself. If I'm down the pub with mates and one says I'm trying this vegan diet, explains they have concerns over animal welfare and it stops there, or that they have heard there is a company called Bobs Toys who's share price is going to rocket in the next week or two, and stops there. 

I'm more inclined to look in to it.

Yet if they bang on and on and on and on, as I say it's a huge turn off.

I'm not specifically talking about you "banging on", however the Crypto cult do bang on and the only reason can be is they are recruiting to help boost the value of their investments.

Reddit went though it with the GameStop shares a few years back, diamond hands this and that, people were sharing screenshots proudly showing off their dwindling investments, some in debt, but diamond hodl.

I really do hope you're one of the lucky ones that gets the huge profits to achieve your goals, I honestly do, when you sell though, just keep it quiet as you were meant to hodl!

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Re mining wise and no More coins 

theres circa 120 years to get through before that happens. Bitcoin has come a stupidly long way in 15/16 years from geeky internet magic money to a traded global asset that’ll soon be appearing in every pension fund on the planet.

a lot can happen in 120 years lol 😊🙌

Yeah - my point was really that the last 100 years of mining is going to look nothing like the first 35 years of mining, as the halving becomes an ever smaller multi digit 0.000n per block and the number of remaining coins dwindles down to virtually nothing.

It's not going to be the gradual change that you might imagine when you think of it being "120 years until the last coin is mined".

It's an exponential shrinking of the supply. By 2040 - BTC as we know it is largely done and it will become a very different beast

Which is probably a good thing - as once the supply stabilises to hardly anything, then so might the price and it may become a useful asset rather than just a speculative one.

I wouldn't bank on it though! (pun intended)

 

[Crewton]

Apologies if I've got this wrong, but surely when the rewards for miners halve, the unit cost of mining doubles along with the environmental cost per unit, making bitcoin mining a distinctly un-green enterprise?