Carnero Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Andicis said: I remember when Cocu got this squad 10th, it's not worse now, yet look where we are? As it happens, under Rooney we've gained 37 points from 26 games. Over 39 games that would work out at 55.5 points and place us 10th. Questioning performances is fair enough, but the points haul given the position we were in when he took over does deserve some credit regardless of what you may think over performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 I’m cutting Rooney a bit of slack because he was promised stuff (take over, signings) that haven’t materialised. That written, some of the stuff we’ve produced with his name on it has been absolute bilge. Two questions I would like to ask Rooney are, Are you happy with the coaching staff you inherited ? And secondly, would you have picked any of them if you were given a free hand on picking your own staff ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Carnero said: As it happens, under Rooney we've gained 37 points from 26 games. Over 39 games that would work out at 55.5 points and place us 10th. Questioning performances is fair enough, but the points haul given the position we were in when he took over does deserve some credit regardless of what you may think over performances. I honestly think a huge difference is the fit Bielik impact. I think Cocu's results would have turned around too if he'd had a fit Bielik to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Andicis said: How so? We lost Martin, Bogle and Lowe. Bogle has been adequately replaced by Byrne, Buchanan has replaced Lowe. Martin is probably better than Kazim-Richards, but not the difference between 10th and 19th. Yeah I think there's one or two more, but have it your way. Cocu would undoubtedly had us top of the table by now, he left a great legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Yeah I think there's one or two more, but have it your way. Cocu would undoubtedly had us top of the table by now, he left a great legacy. I love how you immediately go for the strawman. Of course nobody is saying we'd be doing brilliantly if we had Cocu now, just that the squad finished 10th last season and therefore the manager can get more out of it. I don't know why I expect you to discuss anything in good faith, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: I love how you immediately go for the strawman. No you were attacking my viewpoint which I defended, but then I thought 'you defend your pro-Cocu view'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: No you were attacking my viewpoint which I defended, but then I thought 'you defend your pro-Cocu view'! Attacked? I asked you how the squad is weaker this year. It's certainly not an attack. Nor am I pro-Cocu. I'm aware though of the standard you held Cocu to, and find it interesting that Rooney doesn't have to meet this standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Andicis said: Of course nobody is saying we'd be doing brilliantly if we had Cocu now, just that the squad finished 10th last season and therefore the manager can get more out of it. Ignoring the massive truism that Martin would have made our creative force so much better?! How can you ignore that in a team that couldn't score goals or create chances for love nor money?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Andicis said: I honestly think a huge difference is the fit Bielik impact. I think Cocu's results would have turned around too if he'd had a fit Bielik to choose from. Maybe so, and I'd have loved that to happen, but we are where we are. I don't think Rooney can be properly judged either way until next season, assuming he's given some leeway in the transfer market. He's done all we could have reasonably asked for when appointed (up to now), safety was the only requirement for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Ignoring the massive truism that Martin would have made our creative force so much better?! How can you ignore that in a team that couldn't score goals or create chances for love nor money?! Martin would probably have made a difference, Rooney had Bielik to choose from. Cocu didn't. It's pointless to discuss these things as it's all conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Andicis said: Attacked? I asked you how the squad is weaker this year. It's certainly not an attack. Nor am I pro-Cocu. I'm aware though of the standard you held Cocu to, and find it interesting that Rooney doesn't have to meet this standard. I didn't say that - you love to twist things to make a point. #dull I said if next season Rooney sets us up to play a negative reactive game (ala Cocu stylee) then it would be different to now. You ignored that. We're having to react to being in the mess Cocu left us in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Carnero said: Maybe so, and I'd have loved that to happen, but we are where we are. I don't think Rooney can be properly judged either way until next season, assuming he's given some leeway in the transfer market. He's done all we could have reasonably asked for when appointed (up to now), safety was the only requirement for this season. I just don't think you can ignore performances. The performances without Bielik largely haven't been good enough. It's a worrying sign going into a new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Because the squad hasn't. So he bought in 5 loans in January that haven't improved matters at all? Rooney’s period has also coincided with having a fully fit Bielik - who was just being brought back to match fitness in Cocus dying days. He's by far our best player and improved the squad albeit temporarily. Then you have the public pronouncements about how, when Rooney first took over, the playing style was "simplified" so the team will be less confused and get the ball forward more quickly. Which did happen for a while. Then it didn't. The idea that poor Wayne has had to rescue a squad that was catastrophically mishandled by a previous manager who had all the privileges denied to Wayne is a weak analysis. He is so far not showing convincing evidence of any greater management ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I said if next season Rooney sets us up to play a negative reactive game (ala Cocu stylee) then it would be different to now. When exactly did you say that? Certainly not within your replies to me in this thread. 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: We're having to react to being in the mess Cocu left us in. I guess I think after 30 games we should probably look more coherent than when Rooney took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 54 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: He's having to do it to get us out of the poo Cocu left us in. Next season, then we'll see. It'll be reasonable to make similar comments then. @Andicis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: @Andicis Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: The idea that poor Wayne has had to rescue a squad that was catastrophically mishandled by a previous manager who had all the privileges denied to Wayne is a weak analysis. He is so far not showing convincing evidence of any greater management ability. Yeah it's tricky to become as good a manager as Cocu overnight - poor Wayne needs a week or two to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Based on his points to date and the fact we're not still on the bottom of the league. You laughing with me then @rynny? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Because it's harder to get out of one than in to one! Cocu had money to spend, when Rooney has bought in some players and had a pre-season, etc then we'll know what he can do. It seems like he has much more idea of what is needed to compete in this league than Cocu ever did. Mac 1 came in after 10 games we had 11 points. Not quite relegation form but the change in form was unbelievable. Mac 2 came in after 10 games we had 9 points and 5 goals scored. Took us to the edge of the play offs. Rooney has brought in half as many players as Cocu did, in a third of the time. How much money has Cocu had to spend? He has signed Bielik (£4m guaranteed) and Jozwiak (£2-2.5m) for any real amount of money, Marshall and Byrne for hardly anything. How much has Cocu had to bring in? How much did he have to reduce the wages by? Cocu didn't get a full preseason with the players, yet he got judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You laughing with me then @rynny? Thanks. Thought it was a funny joke ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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