JustOneBiblicalKazim Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Lampard played with high intensity and a high press against Southampton with a midfield of Bird and Evans and an strike force of Lawrence, Holmes and Marriott. No mount, no Wilson. The relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Lampard played with high intensity and a high press against Southampton with a midfield of Bird and Evans and an strike force of Lawrence, Holmes and Marriott. No mount, no Wilson. Lampard also had Keogh and Tomori as a CB partnership whereas Cocu had Davies and Clarke. One partnership allows for a high press, the other doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, JustOneChrissyMartin said: The relevance? People are claiming cocu doesn't have the players to complete a high press, when he does. I've just given an example of when high press and high intensity was used with the same players to play a good game of football. Why can't fans admit that a lot of the football we've seen under cocu hasn't been swashbuckling stuff, it's been very tame. Not saying it can't be exciting eventually but the reason why we haven't seen it yet is not totally down to the players at his disposal, I can assure you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: People are claiming cocu doesn't have the players to complete a high press, when he does. I've just given an example of when high press and high intensity was used with mythe same players to play a good game of football. Why can't fans admit that a lot of the football we've seen under cocu hasn't been swashbuckling stuff, it's been very tame. Not saying it can't be exciting eventually but the reason why we haven't seen it yet is not totally down to the players at his disposal, I can assure you that. But he didn't / doesnt. Using one cup game as absolute proof that we played a successful pressing game regardless of the team on the field is reaching somewhat, especially when you don't seem to have considered as pointed out above that Lampard had Tomori & Keogh in the team. If you've had the players to suit that style of play all season then one match without (some) of them isn't going to alter too much. If you never had those players in the first place, or have a prolonged period without them then you won't be seeing a consistent high press. How did we do when Mount was injured again? You also seem to forget that there were spells under Lampard where people were questioning "where has the pressing game gone?" and that was even with much better players available. There were many absolutely dire, passive away performances under him (we only won 2 away games under him in 5 months in 2019) but they seem to have slipped your mind. Blackburn & Villa away anyone? Turgid performances. Nobody has claimed we play 'swashbuckling' stuff but 'awfullness' / dullness has now become ridiculously overstated. What we've got now is people who've decided that any and all between the CBs & midfield is pointless & rubbish, throw their toys out the pram after 20 minutes and almost refuse to see / acknowledge anything positive at all about the rest of the performance. However you're right that it isn't 100% entirely down to the players,we do need to up the tempo, the fitness, the creativity. We all know that, the management knows that, the players know it and we're trying to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, Coconut said: You also seem to forget that there were spells under Lampard where people were questioning "where has the pressing game gone?" and that was even with much better players available. Not saying it was perfect under Lampard but by your logic, teams in League one, two and below can't play a high intensity, high pressing game because they don't have 'good enough' players. It's a nonsense. There's no reason we can't play with high intensity now with Marriott and Holmes on the field as we did in the cup game against Southampton. Having a centre back partnership of keogh and tomori of course aids the high press but it bears no influence on the speed at which we moved the ball and made forward penetrating runs in behind the defence with exactly the same attacking players as cocu has/had at his disposal. I'm not saying cocu football is supposed to be slow, because I strongly believe it isn't, but the facts are what we are watching at the moment is dull. Some issues are down to personnel but some are down to system. The coaching staff have alluded to changing this for the better and I hope we see the results of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Rammy03 said: Not saying it was perfect under Lampard but by your logic, teams in League one, two and below can't play a high intensity, high pressing game because they don't have 'good enough' players. It's a nonsense. There's no reason we can't play with high intensity now with Marriott and Holmes on the field as we did in the cup game against Southampton. Having a centre back partnership of keogh and tomori of course aids the high press but it bears no influence on the speed at which we moved the ball and made forward penetrating runs in behind the defence with exactly the same attacking players as cocu has/had at his disposal. I'm not saying cocu football is supposed to be slow, because I strongly believe it isn't, but the facts are what we are watching at the moment is dull. Some issues are down to personnel but some are down to system. The coaching staff have alluded to changing this for the better and I hope we see the results of it. No reason, other than a fully fit Marriott, a fully fit Holmes and the aforementioned Keogh/Tomori. We were 2-0 down in that game until we subbed Nugent on for Bird, he's another who despite his advancing age was still capable of harassing defenders (if not taking any chances to score). As per the BBC report,we were 'flat' in the first half until he came on... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46706909 Are you sure memories of the original 2-2 game & the replayed 2-2 game (with Mount/Wilson) aren't merging into one a little? There was a lot there that Cocu hasn't had the benefit of. A high press and speed of passing are separate matters. I really wouldn't associate any / many League One & Two teams with a high pressing, fast passing game - one or the other, maybe, but not both; lots of physical players who can get in your face and make you feel the pinch on a smaller pitch, but very few who can do that without being more of a long ball team. Forget about better / worse if you want - think 'players more or less suited to a pressing game' instead. Our players most suited to a high pressing game are those who either spent a large proportion of last season injured or the young players (Knight in particular, Sibley) coming through who weren't ready to play for the first half of the season. Our best passers / most influential players in the second half of the season were Martin & Rooney - vital to our best performances but not capable of a high press! It's all about balance. Lampard had a reasonably well balanced, settled squad he'd worked with from the start of the season which was better equipped to play a pressing game. Cocu had interruption after interruption, injuries & 'incidents' galore, and a squad for various reasons less equipped to play a pressing game. Just because it shared some of the players doesn't mean it had the right mix at the right time. Anyway, we agree on your final 2 lines - fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admira Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 All the firm transfer talk so far has been about wingers and a bit about Bogle’s replacement. Apart from a vague rumour about Maddison (who is a number 10), there’s been nothing about strikers, especially Martin’s replacement. Worrying where the goals will come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 I don't see where goals or chances are coming from. Slightly concerning and a lot riding on the youngsters. I do think the young talent will come on another level so hopefully they are given freedom to create. Maybe we'll find a way to get Marriott in front of goal. At the moment though I think we'll struggle. Hope to be pleasantly surprised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E06cNv55jTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 32 minutes ago, Ellafella said: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E06cNv55jTs Brilliant. "Anything can happen in the next half hour". But it'll probably be next week now, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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