The Old Bell Hotel {Re-visited}

[Ellafella]

Apologies for the length of the following but it is something that I believe is very important to note about the origins of Derby County and we need your help to spread the word:

It’s a couple of years now since, on the back of the brilliant writing of local Historian and lifelong Derby County fan Peter Seddon, that I started to advocate for the permanent recognition of the part that the Old Bell Hotel in Sadlergate played in the creation and adoption of Derby County as Founder Members of the Football League. I wrote to Derby Civic Society, wrote to Derby County & spoke with a senior Club official, wrote to the Old Bell owner and telephoned, visited the Hotel twice to speak personally with the  owner, with the sole aim of having a “blue plaque” tastefully fixed to mark the history. Malheureusement, my naïve acorns fell on stony turf. Subsequent help from the marvellous Anton Rippon likewise drew a nought-nought. However, fear not for there is I suspect a chapter to come. . .

My fascination and desire was piqued quite recently again by the following article:

Report from Derby Daily Telegraph - Monday 29 September 1884

THE Derby COUNTY FOOTBALL CLUB. DINNER THE BLACKBURN OLYMPIC. Saturday September 27th, 1884; 

Derby County 3: 4 Blackburn Olympic (Derby’s first ever home game in front of 1500 home fans)

At the conclusion of Saturday's match, the Olympic team were entertained to dinner at the Bell Hotel by their opponents, and a convivial evening was spent. Mr. W. Morley, whose efforts the County Club mainly owes its existence, occupied the chair, and there were also present, Messrs. Bramham (Blackburn), Yates (Blackburn), Dixon (Blackburn), Hewitt (Blackburn), E. Bemrose, W, L. Dodd, F. E. Leech, S Richardson, W. Parker, C. Dunnicliffe, and others.—Mr. Hewitt occupied the vice chair. Full justice having been done the excellent repast provided by the Chairman (William Morley) proceeded to propose the health of " the Blackburn Olympic." He said he had for some years had his eye on this particular team, knowing that possessed several players of extraordinary talent, and feeling confident that it would some-day rise to the highest position. (Hear, hear). Two years ago they achieved the distinction of winning the English Cup, and well worthy were they of the honour. Last year they again found them competing the semi-final of the same event. He (the Chairman) was present when that match was played at Nottingham, and felt at the time that Queen's Park were lucky to win. (Hear, hear.) The Chairman proceeded to refer to the formation of the County team, and said they had had to contend with great difficulties, and bear a great deal of angry feeling from other clubs. He had been charged with robbing other clubs of their players, but he thought those players need not have joined the County Club unless they had desired to do so. (Hear, hear.) At any rate no monetary inducement had been held out to them, (Applause *) He thought their opponents of that afternoon, their friends that evening, would admit that the County team had played a fair game. (Hear, hear, and applause.)— The toast was drunk with musical honours and Kentish Fire, led off by Mr, E. Bemrose.—The vice chairman responded, and complimented the County Club upon the team they had put into the field that day. He did not see what the difficulties referred to by the chairman were. County had the finest ground in England—(applause)—and a team which was a credit to the Club and to the County to which they belonged. (Applause.) The Olympic had certainly won the match that day, but it had only been by the skin of their teeth. This was no flattery on his part—he was only speaking fact which was patent to everyone who had witnessed the match. (Applause,) Derbyshire had played a magnificent game, and he wished them every success. In conclusion he thanked the County Club for the splendid hospitality they had shown their opponents, and hoped if ever they came to Blackburn they would be able in some measure to repay their kindness. (Applause.)— Mr. Bramham said he had pleasure in stating that a return match would be played between the teams on the date the Olympic were to have played the Rovers. (Applause,) far lay in his power he should like to make this match an annual one. (Hear, hear.)— The healths of the chairman and vice chairman were afterwards drunk with enthusiasm, and the evening's proceedings were rendered additionally interesting by some excellent singing by Messrs. Beverley, W. T. Morley1, Woolfall, etc

*yes, right!

I love this report. It writes bold a number of reasons why it’s so important to mark the Hotel’s place in the fabric of Derby the city, and Derby the football Club’s history:

1.       William Morley and his tireless work to overcome the odds and establish the “upstarts” as serious contenders in the nascent new football hierarchy {Mel is a modern-day Morley to me}. Other Derby Clubs had greater “rights” to be the torch bearers for Derby football. Morley knew the value of psychology and of wining & dining and winning opponents as friends who would reciprocate when it came to future associations. Accordingly the Bell Hotel was his dining-room of choice.

2.       The splendid post-match dinners provided by the Hotel which fixed Derby County as an opponent worthy of a place to visit.

3.       “County had the finest ground in England” {the words of the Blackburn chairman} and a view shared by the other to-be Clubs that became the other 11 Founder Members. Thanks to Derbyshire County Cricket Club and the railway link from Derby Midland station to the County Ground that gave Derby County the feel of a modern, transport-integrated Football Club.

So, DCFC Fans comrades, when this confinement is over, go and have a pint at the Old Bell. Raise a toast to Wm. Morley, and the Bell Hotel, and tell the Owner that a plaque outside linking his fine hostelry to the world-famous Rams would be good for business. I for one think we should have a party there on 8th May, the official birthday of Derby County, now 135 years old, and it’s only totally appropriate to celebrate it at the place of its very inception.

Ps. Wm Morley was a fine musician and noted for his fine singing voice { and the evening's proceedings were rendered additionally interesting by some excellent singing by Messrs. Beverley, W. T. Morley, Woolfall} I just wonder what the songs were {“since I was Young, I created the, DCFC, the team for me”}.

[2tups]

Great research and lovely idea, but do fear it will be 8th May 2021.

[IslandExile]

Thank you @Ellafella. Very interesting read. Good luck with your worthwhile campaign ?

[Philmycock]

Great stuff @Ellafella ? 

[Ellafella]

13 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Thank you @Ellafella. Very interesting read. Good luck with your worthwhile campaign ?

Thanks @IslandExile. That's handsome of you to say. There are others who are now taking this forward I think and I hope they get there. Wm Morley worked wonders back in 1884; he is often just a passing mention but when you think of everything that has followed, can you imagine the moment at the Derbyshire County Cricket Club Committee some time in 1883/4 sat in a dimlylit Bell Hotel room, when in the face of very serious financial issues {debts of circa £1000) , he uttered the words "Gentlemen, the time has come to form a football team, and for Derby to witness matches of a higher order than have hitherto been played in Derby". . . roll forward to Charlie George smashing the ball into Real Madrid's net. 

[Philmycock]

The match would have been at the County Ground/Racecourse?

[Ellafella]

1 minute ago, philmycocu said:

The match would have been at the County Ground/Racecourse?

Yes; that's right @philmycocu. 

[Philmycock]

https://www.derbyshirelife.co.uk/people/local-people/Derby-county-fc-the-men-who-made-the-rams-1-3227057

[Ellafella]

11 minutes ago, philmycocu said:

https://www.derbyshirelife.co.uk/people/local-people/Derby-county-fc-the-men-who-made-the-rams-1-3227057

That's right, Peter Seddon's book, cited by me above, which is the original source of the intelligence around the first 4 years of Derby County. We owe a great debt of gratitude to him for his painstaking research and endeavour. If you haven't read the book, I urge you to do so. Every page is a delight if you have an interest in the wonderful events by which the Club burst onto the scene. 

[Philmycock]

8 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

That's right, Peter Seddon's book, cited by me above, which is the original source of the intelligence around the first 4 years of Derby County. We owe a great debt of gratitude to him for his painstaking research and endeavour. If you haven't read the book, I urge you to do so. Every page is a delight if you have an interest in the wonderful events by which the Club burst onto the scene. 

Gonna get this book!

[Ellafella]

Just now, philmycocu said:

Gonna get this book!

It's a fine read. Thanks to PS, we know the details of what happened and when and where and the book is so well-written it takes you back as if it just happened a few years ago. 

[Philmycock]

The Men Who Made the Rams: Origins and Who's Who of Derby County Football Club 1884 to 1888 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1905891776/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_psuFEbF4YN3CJ

[IslandExile]

I see Peter Seddon has a couple of other books on Amazon: one about Steve Bloomer, the other seems to be quirky stories.

Not meaning to send this thread off on a tangent but are they also good reads?

Addendum: just remembered I got the Bloomer book on Kindle some time ago, I should give it a read.

[Ellafella]

32 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I see Peter Seddon has a couple of other books on Amazon: one about Steve Bloomer, the other seems to be quirky stories.

Not meaning to send this thread off on a tangent but are they also good reads?

Addendum: just remembered I got the Bloomer book on Kindle some time ago, I should give it a read.

Yes @IslandExile indeed the Bloomer book {“Destroying Angel”} is a brilliant read. Worth picking up a palpable copy. Peter Seddon’s writing style is simply beautiful. It’s clear that he writes with an exuberant passion which is contagious. He makes you realise that  Bloomer was an exceedingly rare talent and makes you proud that Bloomer’s adopted place was Derby and Derby were lucky to have had a player who was light years ahead of his contemporaries in terms of his football skill. Bloomer’s life was very remarkable for its adventure and twists of fate. Through reading that book, I’ve become quite fascinated by the Goodall brothers. John Goodall was Bloomer’s mentor at Derby - John Goodall scored 4 goals for Great Lever against Derby in Derby’s first ever game. So what did Derby do in response - only went and signed him and his brother Archie and paid them handsomely to come to Derby part of the deal being the ownership of the Plough Inn. IIRC John Goodall gave Bloomer a gold sovereign - pressed it into his hand post-match - after Bloomer had played a blinder and scored his first hat-trick for Derby. Fabulous, evocative & priceless history. 

[G STAR RAM]

I had some good nights in The Bell in the 90s, dont go and ruin them by telling me it is the place that is to blame for years of disappointment and misery!

[Mucker1884]

Great thread.  Great cause.

I'm no avid reader, only picking a book up for camping holidays (and I'm a slow reader!), but almost all football related.  Book titles now noted, and will be purchased some time soon.

Now, here's hoping that Netflix do a series 2 of "The English Game".  I presume DCFC would figure heavily!

?

[Philmycock]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I had some good nights in The Bell in the 90s, dont go and ruin them by telling me it is the place that is to blame for years of disappointment and misery!

For some reason we always used to end up in there on a Sunday night, and if memory serves me right they had a net on the ceiling which released loads of balloons ?did I dream this?

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, philmycocu said:

For some reason we always used to end up in there on a Sunday night, and if memory serves me right they had a net on the ceiling which released loads of balloons ?did I dream this?

No you're right, in the room at the back where the DJ was.

[Ellafella]

On 26/03/2020 at 23:01, Ellafella said:

Apologies for the length of the following but it is something that I believe is very important to note about the origins of Derby County and we need your help to spread the word:

It’s a couple of years now since, on the back of the brilliant writing of local Historian and lifelong Derby County fan Peter Seddon, that I started to advocate for the permanent recognition of the part that the Old Bell Hotel in Sadlergate played in the creation and adoption of Derby County as Founder Members of the Football League. I wrote to Derby Civic Society, wrote to Derby County & spoke with a senior Club official, wrote to the Old Bell owner and telephoned, visited the Hotel twice to speak personally with the  owner, with the sole aim of having a “blue plaque” tastefully fixed to mark the history. Malheureusement, my naïve acorns fell on stony turf. Subsequent help from the marvellous Anton Rippon likewise drew a nought-nought. However, fear not for there is I suspect a chapter to come. . .

My fascination and desire was piqued quite recently again by the following article:

Report from Derby Daily Telegraph - Monday 29 September 1884

THE Derby COUNTY FOOTBALL CLUB. DINNER THE BLACKBURN OLYMPIC. Saturday September 27th, 1884; 

Derby County 3: 4 Blackburn Olympic (Derby’s first ever home game in front of 1500 home fans)

At the conclusion of Saturday's match, the Olympic team were entertained to dinner at the Bell Hotel by their opponents, and a convivial evening was spent. Mr. W. Morley, whose efforts the County Club mainly owes its existence, occupied the chair, and there were also present, Messrs. Bramham (Blackburn), Yates (Blackburn), Dixon (Blackburn), Hewitt (Blackburn), E. Bemrose, W, L. Dodd, F. E. Leech, S Richardson, W. Parker, C. Dunnicliffe, and others.—Mr. Hewitt occupied the vice chair. Full justice having been done the excellent repast provided by the Chairman (William Morley) proceeded to propose the health of " the Blackburn Olympic." He said he had for some years had his eye on this particular team, knowing that possessed several players of extraordinary talent, and feeling confident that it would some-day rise to the highest position. (Hear, hear). Two years ago they achieved the distinction of winning the English Cup, and well worthy were they of the honour. Last year they again found them competing the semi-final of the same event. He (the Chairman) was present when that match was played at Nottingham, and felt at the time that Queen's Park were lucky to win. (Hear, hear.) The Chairman proceeded to refer to the formation of the County team, and said they had had to contend with great difficulties, and bear a great deal of angry feeling from other clubs. He had been charged with robbing other clubs of their players, but he thought those players need not have joined the County Club unless they had desired to do so. (Hear, hear.) At any rate no monetary inducement had been held out to them, (Applause *) He thought their opponents of that afternoon, their friends that evening, would admit that the County team had played a fair game. (Hear, hear, and applause.)— The toast was drunk with musical honours and Kentish Fire, led off by Mr, E. Bemrose.—The vice chairman responded, and complimented the County Club upon the team they had put into the field that day. He did not see what the difficulties referred to by the chairman were. County had the finest ground in England—(applause)—and a team which was a credit to the Club and to the County to which they belonged. (Applause.) The Olympic had certainly won the match that day, but it had only been by the skin of their teeth. This was no flattery on his part—he was only speaking fact which was patent to everyone who had witnessed the match. (Applause,) Derbyshire had played a magnificent game, and he wished them every success. In conclusion he thanked the County Club for the splendid hospitality they had shown their opponents, and hoped if ever they came to Blackburn they would be able in some measure to repay their kindness. (Applause.)— Mr. Bramham said he had pleasure in stating that a return match would be played between the teams on the date the Olympic were to have played the Rovers. (Applause,) far lay in his power he should like to make this match an annual one. (Hear, hear.)— The healths of the chairman and vice chairman were afterwards drunk with enthusiasm, and the evening's proceedings were rendered additionally interesting by some excellent singing by Messrs. Beverley, W. T. Morley1, Woolfall, etc

*yes, right!

I love this report. It writes bold a number of reasons why it’s so important to mark the Hotel’s place in the fabric of Derby the city, and Derby the football Club’s history:

1.       William Morley and his tireless work to overcome the odds and establish the “upstarts” as serious contenders in the nascent new football hierarchy {Mel is a modern-day Morley to me}. Other Derby Clubs had greater “rights” to be the torch bearers for Derby football. Morley knew the value of psychology and of wining & dining and winning opponents as friends who would reciprocate when it came to future associations. Accordingly the Bell Hotel was his dining-room of choice.

2.       The splendid post-match dinners provided by the Hotel which fixed Derby County as an opponent worthy of a place to visit.

3.       “County had the finest ground in England” {the words of the Blackburn chairman} and a view shared by the other to-be Clubs that became the other 11 Founder Members. Thanks to Derbyshire County Cricket Club and the railway link from Derby Midland station to the County Ground that gave Derby County the feel of a modern, transport-integrated Football Club.

So, DCFC Fans comrades, when this confinement is over, go and have a pint at the Old Bell. Raise a toast to Wm. Morley, and the Bell Hotel, and tell the Owner that a plaque outside linking his fine hostelry to the world-famous Rams would be good for business. I for one think we should have a party there on 8th May, the official birthday of Derby County, now 135 years old, and it’s only totally appropriate to celebrate it at the place of its very inception.

Ps. Wm Morley was a fine musician and noted for his fine singing voice { and the evening's proceedings were rendered additionally interesting by some excellent singing by Messrs. Beverley, W. T. Morley, Woolfall} I just wonder what the songs were {“since I was Young, I created the, DCFC, the team for me”}.

The vice chairman responded, and complimented the County Club upon the team they had put into the field that day. He did not see what the difficulties referred to by the chairman were. County had the finest ground in England—(applause)—and a team which was a credit to the Club and to the County to which they belonged”. . . 
 

As if to prove the point the 1886 Cup Final Replay between Blackburn Rvrs & WBA was played at Derby’s County Ground in front of 12,000 fans. The first time the FA Cup final was played outside of the Capital.  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_FA_Cup_Final

 

[uttoxram75]

On 27/03/2020 at 00:51, Ellafella said:

Yes @IslandExile indeed the Bloomer book {“Destroying Angel”} is a brilliant read. Worth picking up a palpable copy. Peter Seddon’s writing style is simply beautiful. It’s clear that he writes with an exuberant passion which is contagious. He makes you realise that  Bloomer was an exceedingly rare talent and makes you proud that Bloomer’s adopted place was Derby and Derby were lucky to have had a player who was light years ahead of his contemporaries in terms of his football skill. Bloomer’s life was very remarkable for its adventure and twists of fate. Through reading that book, I’ve become quite fascinated by the Goodall brothers. John Goodall was Bloomer’s mentor at Derby - John Goodall scored 4 goals for Great Lever against Derby in Derby’s first ever game. So what did Derby do in response - only went and signed him and his brother Archie and paid them handsomely to come to Derby part of the deal being the ownership of the Plough Inn. IIRC John Goodall gave Bloomer a gold sovereign - pressed it into his hand post-match - after Bloomer had played a blinder and scored his first hat-trick for Derby. Fabulous, evocative & priceless history. 

Steve Bloomer is with us.

His 4 x  great grandson is a season ticket holder in the South Stand. Next to me. He's my mate.