Coronavirus

[Archied]

 

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

No one is putting labels on people. You love a conspiracy, what do you think about the funding and promotion of the Great Barrington Declaration? Is it acceptable because it backs up your opinions?

So in summary it’s right wing think tank versus left wing drink tank on here??‍♂️

[Archied]

58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

One Koch supports another?

All insults and damp corduroy as usual

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Fair play, you are still here after months, making the same points that are taken apart by most other posters. I think I've done my shift for now, someone else can take over for a bit. I've had enough of experts.

Good idea, stick to one of your more sensible opinions back on the olay play offs thread you created ?

[Rev]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Good idea, stick to one of your more sensible opinions back on the olay play offs thread you created ?

Proper Jonah'd that run of form up, didn't he?

[Albert]

6 hours ago, Archied said:

 

So in summary it’s right wing think tank versus left wing drink tank on here??‍♂️

I find it interesting that this is the line you go for. 

It's not 'right wing' versus 'left wing' thinktanks, it's what the data has shown us, and the best evidence to date against things like right wing thinktanks. 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, Albert said:

I find it interesting that this is the line you go for. 

It's not 'right wing' versus 'left wing' thinktanks, it's what the data has shown us, and the best evidence to date against things like right wing thinktanks. 

No you don’t 

[Albert]

7 minutes ago, Archied said:

No you don’t 

???

Are you trying to actually argue anything here? 

The reality is that if you're trying to frame this as a 'left v right' thing, then reality has a hard left leaning bias. The thing is, however, it's not a 'right v left' thing at all, and countries that avoided politicising the pandemic tended to perform better. The issue is, and has always been, that some right wing groups took the pandemic as an opportunity to push conspiracy theories. That doesn't make not believing such 'left wing'. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Albert said:

???

Are you trying to actually argue anything here? 

The reality is that if you're trying to frame this as a 'left v right' thing, then reality has a hard left leaning bias. The thing is, however, it's not a 'right v left' thing at all, and countries that avoided politicising the pandemic tended to perform better. The issue is, and has always been, that some right wing groups took the pandemic as an opportunity to push conspiracy theories. That doesn't make not believing such 'left wing'. 

There is only one person on the thread trying to create a right wing v left wing scenario and it isnt @Archied

Although more recently you have definitely let your guard down and revealed that some of your views are politically motivated.

Its not about data v conspiracy theory either. 

Its more about people flip flopping with the data that they choose to use to justify their decisions, and ignoring absolutely anything else that does not fit the official narrative. 

Its also about people acting as though Covid is the only thing that matters in this country.

[Albert]

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

There is only one person on the thread trying to create a right wing v left wing scenario and it isnt @Archied

Although more recently you have definitely let your guard down and revealed that some of your views are politically motivated.

What do you think I'm arguing that is 'politically motivated', and how exactly do you feel I've 'let [my] guard down'? 

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Its not about data v conspiracy theory either. 

Its more about people flip flopping with the data that they choose to use to justify their decisions, and ignoring absolutely anything else that does not fit the official narrative. 

Its also about people acting as though Covid is the only thing that matters in this country.

Here you go again with this 'official narrative' line. The UK's response is a failure, as it has been across much of Europe. There is no 'official narrative' globally, each country has taken things their own way, some very successfully, some not. An 'official narrative' is a poorly defined concept at best, and an attempt to push a 'special knowledge' conspiracy at worst. 

There is no 'flip flopping' on the data either, the results have been clear for a long time now. The virus could have been controlled, but it wasn't, and this has been the result. The fact that one of the prominent examples of a country that has done well did so under a conservative government, one criticised for being more 'right leaning' than the Tories in the UK, speaks volumes about this 'left v right' narrative. The fact that a state controlled by a left leaning party was the only one with a proper second wave only reinforces this point, a point I've been making on here since mid last year. 

It is true that elsewhere in the World, some right wing groups have tried to politicise this pandemic, they have pushed back against lockdowns, masks, and even the vaccines at points. This isn't just fringe groups either, but groups backed by some big money. Again though, it was never something that was 'left v right', nor something that ever should have been considered as such. Really, if anything, it ended up being right wing thinktanks against public health. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Albert said:

What do you think I'm arguing that is 'politically motivated', and how exactly do you feel I've 'let [my] guard down'? 

Here you go again with this 'official narrative' line. The UK's response is a failure, as it has been across much of Europe. There is no 'official narrative' globally, each country has taken things their own way, some very successfully, some not. An 'official narrative' is a poorly defined concept at best, and an attempt to push a 'special knowledge' conspiracy at worst. 

There is no 'flip flopping' on the data either, the results have been clear for a long time now. The virus could have been controlled, but it wasn't, and this has been the result. The fact that one of the prominent examples of a country that has done well did so under a conservative government, one criticised for being more 'right leaning' than the Tories in the UK, speaks volumes about this 'left v right' narrative. The fact that a state controlled by a left leaning party was the only one with a proper second wave only reinforces this point, a point I've been making on here since mid last year. 

It is true that elsewhere in the World, some right wing groups have tried to politicise this pandemic, they have pushed back against lockdowns, masks, and even the vaccines at points. This isn't just fringe groups either, but groups backed by some big money. Again though, it was never something that was 'left v right', nor something that ever should have been considered as such. Really, if anything, it ended up being right wing thinktanks against public health. 

I don't care what is happening in the rest of the world, only here in the UK.

Not sure how you can comment on the flip flopping on the use of data, you dont live here.

[Albert]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I don't care what is happening in the rest of the world, only here in the UK.

Not sure how you can comment on the flip flopping on the use of data, you dont live here.

So, your concern is the 'official narrative' in the UK? What would you define as the 'official narrative'? The government spent time downplaying the risks early, and through the middle of the pandemic, they have pushed all times of things throughout. Is that not the official narrative? 

The data itself has been fairly clear for a long time, the second wave was clear as day for a long time prior to the deaths spiking, as was discussed on here. The government might have 'flip flopped', but you'll find that I've been very critical of that and their actions more generally, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. 

It's interesting that you latest move is just to go 'you don't live here', when really, do you think it changes what we're seeing at all? Honestly, I'm glad I'm not in the UK right now, unsurprisingly. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

So, your concern is the 'official narrative' in the UK? What would you define as the 'official narrative'? The government spent time downplaying the risks early, and through the middle of the pandemic, they have pushed all times of things throughout. Is that not the official narrative? 

The data itself has been fairly clear for a long time, the second wave was clear as day for a long time prior to the deaths spiking, as was discussed on here. The government might have 'flip flopped', but you'll find that I've been very critical of that and their actions more generally, so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. 

It's interesting that you latest move is just to go 'you don't live here', when really, do you think it changes what we're seeing at all? Honestly, I'm glad I'm not in the UK right now, unsurprisingly. 

We have had 2 weeks of having infection numbers rammed down our throats, 50,000...60,000...highest yet...uncontrollable 

Then as soon as the infection numbers drop somewhere between 60 and 70%?

The rates are coming down slowly and are still at an alarmingly high rate.

New variant this, new variant that, not sure if vaccines will protect against the new variants.

Its no wonder that people stopped listening to what they say.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Albert said:

???

Are you trying to actually argue anything here? 

The reality is that if you're trying to frame this as a 'left v right' thing, then reality has a hard left leaning bias. The thing is, however, it's not a 'right v left' thing at all, and countries that avoided politicising the pandemic tended to perform better. The issue is, and has always been, that some right wing groups took the pandemic as an opportunity to push conspiracy theories. That doesn't make not believing such 'left wing'. 

Right , go through the thread and find any post where I have framed any opinion on this situation as left wing or right wing , I respond to people like riot and yourself constantly calling anything they don’t agree with right wing , it’s like a stuck record , I have no interest in anybody s political leaning in terms of whether I think what they say has any value.

it’s pathetic tribalism that has infected every area for quite some years now on any given issue.

who is the more enlightened, the person who listens to all or the person that only listens to people who they consider to be on they’re team?

[Stive Pesley]

15 hours ago, TexasRam said:

You did mate, answered it massively incorrectly but at least you answered. 

It wasn't incorrect though was it? How can posting the Swedish govt webpage explaining the details of their Pandemic Restrictions law be "incorrect"?

You were attempting to say that their curve mirrored ours and we have a lockdown whereas they don't. That's plainly untrue

They have lots of restrictions enforced by law. They just aren't qute as strict as ours, but it's totaly disingenuous to say that they have "no lockdown"

I would love for us to have their level of lockdown and not ours, if it meant that our hospitalisation and death rates didnt change, but we tried it and it was a disaster

I'd happily go and live in Sweden right now

 

Except oh...I can't because they have a travel ban on anyone from the UK trying to enter the country

That seems a bit strict for a country that "have no lockdown" ?

 

[Albert]

33 minutes ago, Archied said:

Right , go through the thread and find any post where I have framed any opinion on this situation as left wing or right wing , I respond to people like riot and yourself constantly calling anything they don’t agree with right wing , it’s like a stuck record , I have no interest in anybody s political leaning in terms of whether I think what they say has any value.

it’s pathetic tribalism that has infected every area for quite some years now on any given issue.

who is the more enlightened, the person who listens to all or the person that only listens to people who they consider to be on they’re team?

You asked for one, so why not the one that started this group of comments:

12 hours ago, Archied said:

So in summary it’s right wing think tank versus left wing drink tank on here??‍♂️

 

[Gone]

4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

It wasn't incorrect though was it? How can posting the Swedish govt webpage explaining the details of their Pandemic Restrictions law be "incorrect"?

You were attempting to say that their curve mirrored ours and we have a lockdown whereas they don't. That's plainly untrue

They have lots of restrictions enforced by law. They just aren't qute as strict as ours, but it's totaly disingenuous to say that they have "no lockdown"

I would love for us to have their level of lockdown and not ours, if it meant that our hospitalisation and death rates didnt change, but we tried it and it was a disaster

I'd happily go and live in Sweden right now

 

Except oh...I can't because they have a travel ban on anyone from the UK trying to enter the country

That seems a bit strict for a country that "have no lockdown" ?

 

We’ll go on and on, they haven’t lockdown and the results are the same as ours. However we’ve destroyed sectors of our economy, denied  children an education, and ruined the social fabric of the nation. They haven’t, so I’d rather have their restrictions without the need for the damage we’ve done any day of the week.   

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

 I’d rather have their restrictions without the need for the damage we’ve done any day of the week.   

So would I - but the point remains that we did have roughly similar restrictions to theirs when we were in the tier system, and hospitalisations/deaths began to rise exponentially. So what would you have suggested at that point?

 

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, Albert said:

You asked for one, so why not the one that started this group of comments:

 

Nope ,,, that’s a response to the constant right wing garbage and you will also note it was a response to on the piss posting?so go again,

find me ANY post where I have said a politician, scientist or medical person are saying what they say because they are left wing or right wing rather than responding to posters crying right wing ( reds under the beds???)

All I’m seeing is left wing is spot on and right wing are twirling they’re mustachios and hatching plots,,

and I’m the conspiracy theorist ?

[Archied]

49 minutes ago, Archied said:

Nope ,,, that’s a response to the constant right wing garbage and you will also note it was a response to on the piss posting?so go again,

find me ANY post where I have said a politician, scientist or medical person are saying what they say because they are left wing or right wing rather than responding to posters crying right wing ( reds under the beds???)

All I’m seeing is left wing is spot on and right wing are twirling they’re mustachios and hatching plots,,

and I’m the conspiracy theorist ?

No ??? Ok then an I was wrong will do , though I rather doubt you will be big enough to do that

[ramsbottom]

Not been on this thread for a while, and it seems like it's still the same argument between those who think it's a genuinely frightening disease and those who think it's no worse than a common cold, and if we'd have listen to Boris about herd immunity we'd be through the woods by now...  Am I wrong?