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19 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Reading a graph wrong is not "an alternative theory" it's just reading a graph wrong

Ok maybe you can explain why the UK and Swedish graphs are pretty much mirror images when one country has had lockdown and the other country hasn't?

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9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ok maybe you can explain why the UK and Swedish graphs are pretty much mirror images when one country has had lockdown and the other country hasn't?

Haven't got a clue. Maybe you could give us the answer?

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15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ok maybe you can explain why the UK and Swedish graphs are pretty much mirror images when one country has had lockdown and the other country hasn't?

Mirror image of what ? If you can explain what it is you think the graphs show that I didn't cover in the explanation I previously covered, it might be easier. 

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8 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Haven't got a clue. Maybe you could give us the answer?

Got no idea myself.

A very basic assumption to make looking at the 2 is that a lockdown and no lockdown have yielded pretty similar results.

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46 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

And the reasons for this is?

No idea.

Another basic assumption would be that the virus was following the normal pattern of winter respiratory illnesses rather than being affected by coming in and out of lockdowns.

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

But when anyone else mentions alternative theories they are dismissed as right wing and fringe science because it is not peer reviewed

The Great Barrington Declaration was promoted by a right wing thinktank and the lack of any peer review suggests it fringe science.

Toby Young is clearly a right wing columnist.

I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that.

However, you are attempting to reposition you flawed argument as a tired right vs left debate, and that anyone posting alternative views is dismissed a being right wing. Which is clearly not the case.

The debate is actually between believing in what the experts recommend, and not.

"I think the grass is blue"

"No it's green"

"Have you got any evidence it's green?"

"What evidence have you got it's blue?"

"Well none really, but you should be able to show me evidence that it's green"

"Just look outside. It's so blatantly green"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Norman said:

No. January and February. 

I think you’ll find they were shut during their most profitable months also, but it’s just hospitality so no big issue. 

 

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2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I think you’ll find they were shut during their most profitable months also, but it’s just hospitality so no big issue. 

 

Yeah, they were. Who said it wasn't an issue? 

Just pointing out how the economy isn't exactly locked down.

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19 minutes ago, Norman said:

Yeah, they were. Who said it wasn't an issue? 

Just pointing out how the economy isn't exactly locked down.

Sorry I read your comment as “It's only really the hospitality sector that is closed” meaning really closed through lockdown and I thought it was a bit like “yeah it’s only them who cares type comment”. When actually is one industry that’s being completed destroyed and doubt we’ll ever see it back to normal now.  
 

So may have interpreted your comment incorrectly and if so apologies. If I didn’t then, dam you man!!!!! 

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ok maybe you can explain why the UK and Swedish graphs are pretty much mirror images when one country has had lockdown and the other country hasn't?

Ok got it thanks

Apart from the differences in population and population density which have been covered at length, the main thing that strikes me is the idea that Sweden "has not locked down" is not really true. They tightened restrictions due to rising infections in November

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html

And again in mid-December

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/recommendations-to-reduce-the-spread-of-covid-19/

They have a set of temporary Pandemic Laws until September 2021

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud

 

These appear to be only marginally less restrictive than our rules, and maybe when our rules were at this level - if people had actually followed them we may have been able to stay at that level of restrictions. Scandinavians are culturally far more sensible and compliant than Brits. We're idiots

So in conclusion, I'm not surprised the curve is similar to ours, as the premise that they've not locked down is false

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Eddie said:

It's not a lockdown, and never has been. 

I'd argue it is a lockdown (at least for me). 

Cant see friends or family

Most shops closed

Pubs /restaurants closed 

Indoor public places closed

Illegal to meet anyone for any reason apart from exercise. 

Working from home 100%

Apart from pointless curfews, closures of takeaways and banning exercise dunno what else you can really do. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Ok got it thanks

Apart from the differences in population and population density which have been covered at length, the main thing that strikes me is the idea that Sweden "has not locked down" is not really true. They tightened restrictions due to rising infections in November

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html

And again in mid-December

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/recommendations-to-reduce-the-spread-of-covid-19/

They have a set of temporary Pandemic Laws until September 2021

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud

 

These appear to be only marginally less restrictive than our rules, and maybe when our rules were at this level - if people had actually followed them we may have been able to stay at that level of restrictions. Scandinavians are culturally far more sensible and compliant than Brits. We're idiots

So in conclusion, I'm not surprised the curve is similar to ours, as the premise that they've not locked down is false

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next....

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1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Ok got it thanks

Apart from the differences in population and population density which have been covered at length, the main thing that strikes me is the idea that Sweden "has not locked down" is not really true. They tightened restrictions due to rising infections in November

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html

And again in mid-December

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/recommendations-to-reduce-the-spread-of-covid-19/

They have a set of temporary Pandemic Laws until September 2021

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud

These appear to be only marginally less restrictive than our rules, and maybe when our rules were at this level - if people had actually followed them we may have been able to stay at that level of restrictions. Scandinavians are culturally far more sensible and compliant than Brits. We're idiots

So in conclusion, I'm not surprised the curve is similar to ours, as the premise that they've not locked down is false

There we go then, that is a reasonable answer. 

I will let you and Albert debate over population and population density as he has consistently told us that it is not really a factor.

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