The Politics Thread 2020

[alexxxxx]

Seems to me testing is improving, but nowhere near where it needs to be. 

Drive through testing is a great first step and will allow for most people to access tests. However, what about those with no access to a car? I'm not sure a taxi driver would be happy to take you through a testing site..

I guess id have to get a rental for a day.. 

[GboroRam]

3 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Seems to me testing is improving, but nowhere near where it needs to be. 

Drive through testing is a great first step and will allow for most people to access tests. However, what about those with no access to a car? I'm not sure a taxi driver would be happy to take you through a testing site..

I guess id have to get a rental for a day.. 

I'm not sure a rental company would be happy to rent a car to someone with symptoms either.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I would like him to explain why it hasnt been achieved given that other European countries are far ahead of us in testing.

I would like him to explain why we have the 3rd highest death toll in the world despite a relatively small population in global terms, island borders & plenty of notice before the virus hit these shores.

I would like him to explain why the borders were not closed to specific countries/at all to stop the import of the virus & why they are still open.

You said the other day Hancock shouldnt be castigated for stating & then failing to hit an 'ambitious target' of 100k daily tests 6 weeks into lockdown. The French are aiming for 700k & Germany had tested over 2m by beginning of last week

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52459030

Can anyone actually prove any correlation between tests and death rates?

UK and South Korea have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

Spain and Germany have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

You would think that being an island would have its advantages but surely it is only going to matter if you can close the borders before the disease has had chance to get into the country?

The incubation period of this disease was up to 2 weeks and it is rumoured that the first case here was early January. I am sure the experts doing the modelling had some idea about what level of infection we were at and whether it was actually worth closing the borders or not.

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

That approach offers no solution. Other than hope for a vacination

I guess a useful side effect of the Aussie approach is that they've hardly had any deaths so far. 

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I guess a useful side effect of the Aussie approach is that they've hardly had any deaths so far. 

I get it. It's untenable to lock down and remain in lockdown until it's gone away, because it won't go away. The vaccine offers hope but in the distant future. The only viable option is to manage the speed of infection by managing the lockdown, allowing greater freedom to the public in times when the health service can manage, and locking down to restrict the influx of sick people. The lockdown is the throttle for managing patients into hospital. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can anyone actually prove any correlation between tests and death rates?

UK and South Korea have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

Spain and Germany have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

You would think that being an island would have its advantages but surely it is only going to matter if you can close the borders before the disease has had chance to get into the country?

The incubation period of this disease was up to 2 weeks and it is rumoured that the first case here was early January. I am sure the experts doing the modelling had some idea about what level of infection we were at and whether it was actually worth closing the borders or not.

Didn't South Korea do focused testing whenever they saw an outbreak, focusing on everyone who had been in contact with the person who tested positive, then isolating any other positives?

Yeah we may have done as many tests as South Korea by now, we just increased the test number over a couple of months, which came on the back of 2 months when everyone was spreading it. South Korea's test volumes were already high near the start of the outbreak. Ours are ramping up after 4 months.

Assume Germany acted similar to South Korea and Spain were like us.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ariotofmyown said:

Didn't South Korea do focused testing whenever they saw an outbreak, focusing on everyone who had been in contact with the person who tested positive, then isolating any other positives?

Yeah we may have done as many tests as South Korea by now, we just increased the test number over a couple of months, which came on the back of 2 months when everyone was spreading it. South Korea's test volumes were already high near the start of the outbreak. Ours are ramping up after 4 months.

Assume Germany acted similar to South Korea and Spain were like us.

Yeah fair comment.

[GboroRam]

[Guest]

I see the Government bashing is ramping up in the lead up to the testing results for the 30th...

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

Yet if you ask him how many children he has you have a big chance of getting an answer?

Oh, I think you'd better ask Carl Sagan that - I think he'll know the answer.*

 

 

 

 

 

*Billions and billions

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I see the Government bashing is ramping up in the lead up to the testing results for the 30th...

Justifiably so, because they have proved themselves to be at best slow to react, and at worst consistently incompetent throughout.

[ariotofmyown]

I think the most of the media has never really liked Johnson and Cummings. Perhaps some of this is due to much of the media were Remainers, but the way the pair, and their allies, conduct themselves is somewhat different too.

When the likes of Hancock, Rabb and Patel look so utterly out of their depth too, it's difficult for the media not to look like they are been over the top. They really are poor ministers and the fallout of Brexit has left the Tories scrapping the barrel. 

Perhaps the media have also got tired of the smears and lies that proliferated from number 10 since Johnson took over. I may have posted this before, but the former Daily Mail and Telegraph journalist Peter Oborne has written some fairly serious stuff on this subject, like the below.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/british-journalists-have-become-part-of-johnsons-fake-news-machine/

[GboroRam]

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I see the Government bashing is ramping up in the lead up to the testing results for the 30th...

Good to see you being consistent with your lack of using hindsight for bashing a government. Like the way you wouldn't criticise, say, Gordon Brown for selling off gold,which then goes up in value significantly. Of course you can say its not hindsight that gold goes up in value over timr, but likewise you can say needing to ramp up testing in a pandemic doesn't need hindsight either. 

[ariotofmyown]

55 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah fair comment.

I'm still surprised that Johnson's people haven't started spreading more blame to previous Tory governments. I expect that to happen soon, and with good reason.

There has been some poor decisions since the outbreak began and the processes in making these decisions has looked flawed.

However, this mainly seems like a failure of planning and preparation. A functional and competent cabinet would have struggled in the situation they found themselves in.

One of the most damning parts of the Sunday Times article was how Singapore had copied our pandemic planning and have managed the virus very well. Whereas we had neglected our own plans and fared much worse.

[TramRam]

25 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Justifiably so, because they have proved themselves to be at best slow to react, and at worst consistently incompetent throughout.

For some one who voted Tory I'm pi$$ed off, We now have the 2nd highest Covid-19 death rate in Europe, Most likely soon to be the highest, My Mother passed away 2 weeks ago, 92 years old in a nursing home in Normanton suffering from Dementia, A Doctor was called, Wouldn't sign the death certificate as he's not her Doctor, Her own Doctor would not sign the death certificate as he didn't know the cause of death, Now we're waiting for an autopsy report to determine the cause.

No funeral date as of yet, It's not our Governments fault she passed away, Even if Covid-19 was the cause, We're the 5/6th richest nation on earth, We have some of the best if not the best medical teams/hospitals in the World, And yet some one some where seemed to be a little lax, Scientists, Ministers, Medical experts, Therse are the people that we expect to be our support in situations of this magnatude, Would another Political party have done any better. That we'll never know.

What I do know is if this continues unabated I can see trouble ahead.

 

[Stagtime]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

I guess a useful side effect of the Aussie approach is that they've hardly had any deaths so far. 

I think we lucked it a bit that when the virus started making waves our pollies were laying low because of the poo they were in with the bushfires. So when things started getting serious they rolled out the top health officials to run things and luckily followed their advice starting with shutting down international flights late January and ramping up test and tracking. Our biggest problem were the cruise ships that docked back then.

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

We need openness and honesty and a culture that enables that. Everyone is treading on egg shells and frightened to do or say anything that will come back to haunt them. This is not just about Coronavirus but politics in general. I actually believe that between the parties, they have made big strides on this but the press are still playing it wrong. 

That's a reasonable point. My perspective is that the Government have been very evasive about their plans, the number of deaths & mistakes made thus far so I'm coming from at it from a different angle but I do agree there needs to be less sensationalism from the media to enable that culture.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can anyone actually prove any correlation between tests and death rates?

UK and South Korea have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

Spain and Germany have done roughly the same number of tests per million population.

You would think that being an island would have its advantages but surely it is only going to matter if you can close the borders before the disease has had chance to get into the country?

The incubation period of this disease was up to 2 weeks and it is rumoured that the first case here was early January. I am sure the experts doing the modelling had some idea about what level of infection we were at and whether it was actually worth closing the borders or not.

I think timing of tests would have a massive impact on that comparison. Both Germany & South Korea were very quick to roll out widespread testing which gave people certainty to self-isolate & contact family & co-workers so they could take the appropriate precautions also. South Korea also backed that up with an extensive contact tracing app.

By comparison, the virus took hold in Spain before mass testing was under way and the UK have been extremely slow to test even despite the virus taking hold later than most European countries.

Even now very few of us know if we've had it or not (unless we've been into hospital) - if the ultimate aim is herd immunity, we are approaching that with near zero visibility on what % of the population have built up that immunity.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think timing of tests would have a massive impact on that comparison. Both Germany & South Korea were very quick to roll out widespread testing which gave people certainty to self-isolate & contact family & co-workers so they could take the appropriate precautions also. South Korea also backed that up with an extensive contact tracing app.

By comparison, the virus took hold in Spain before mass testing was under way and the UK have been extremely slow to test even despite the virus taking hold later than most European countries.

Even now very few of us know if we've had it or not (unless we've been into hospital) - if the ultimate aim is herd immunity, we are approaching that with near zero visibility on what % of the population have built up that immunity.

Yes I agree it is the timing and quality of the tests that is crucial.

So the people sitting there bashing their computer complaining that the Government have fallen short of their target is pointless.

We are where we are.

We just need to get testing numbers as high as possible ready for when numbers are low enough to make the track, test, trace a worthwhile exercise.

This isn't me trying to defend the Government as I will obviously now be accused of, it's trying to look at things in a practical manner.

Why we didnt have the ability to track, test, trace is a question to be asked when this is all over.

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why we didnt have the ability to track, test, trace is a question to be asked when this is all over.

Technically it's a question to be answered when this is all over. I see no reason why the question shouldn't be asked now. It's an important one. Just have to accept that the full answers won't come until afterwards.

If we don't keep the pressure on the government to be accountable for their decisions, then we can't complain when they continue with their complacency