Wolfie Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 hours ago, GboroRam said: Any reason you go back to the Labour Party of the 70s, and not the Labour Party of the 40s? Yes, I can remember the 70s & aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, TimRam said: I lived through the Wilson and Callaghan governments. They allowed the Unions to bring the country to a virtual standstill. Even gravediggers went on strike. Corbyn wants us to become the "sick man of Europe" again. I don't suppose you lived through the Clement Attlee days, with mass nationalisation and the creation of the NHS? Honestly if we didn't have these things today the right would be telling us that it's impossible and asking who's going to pay for it, then rubbishing the replies. Stop letting rich people tell you the country can't afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, i-Ram said: Would that be the three day week that was deemed necessary to conserve electricity because of militant action by the NUM who were trying to hold the Country to ransom. That worked out well for them. Not quite how I saw it as a lad starting his working life and becoming aware of how unjust our society was. As for conserving energy, Labour's policy for a four-day week should help reduce the country's carbon footprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Yes, I can remember the 70s & aftermath. You are living in the aftermath of Labour in the 40s. It gave you the NHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 25 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said: Not going to let this comment go without standing up for the girls. My mother was the major breadwinner when I was growing up and two of my daughter in laws earn considerably more than their husbands. Spend your money girls- you've earned it! Fir play to em, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, GboroRam said: You are living in the aftermath of Labour in the 40s. It gave you the NHS. You will be claiming tony blair is solely the reason the good friday agreement got signed next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't suppose you lived through the Clement Attlee days, with mass nationalisation and the creation of the NHS? Honestly if we didn't have these things today the right would be telling us that it's impossible and asking who's going to pay for it, then rubbishing the replies. Stop letting rich people tell you the country can't afford it. You seriously think the NHS is comparable today to the days of Attlee. Sorry had a few today but not that drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Just now, cstand said: You seriously think the NHS is comparable today to the days of Attlee. Sorry had a few today but not that drunk. I'm saying you can't criticise labour because of the seventies and not acknowledge what they achieved in the forties. Why stop at the 70s? Why draw an arbitrary line at that point in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, 1of4 said: As for conserving energy, Labour's policy for a four-day week should help reduce the country's carbon footprint. How? Everything is still going to be open 24/7, you're just gonna have to employ more people to get the same amout of work done. Unless you work in an office and your boss is happy for everyone to take Friiday off and take a 20% hit in productivity someone will have to sit at your desk even if you're not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Well Labour could always sell off our remaining gold reserves to help fund all these policies. Most people think Gordon Brown made a huge error in judgement in selling some several years ago but there are a few who think he did the right thing. We will need a hell of a lot of money to fund the NHS in it's current form. Treatments have become much more costly and sophisticated in the last 50 years and some medicines can cost into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. In addition to that people are getting type 2 diabetes in their teens- years ago it was a disease of old age. More younger people are also needing hip/ knee replacements at younger ages. More very premature babies are surviving which necessitates extra care and yet more money. At the other end of the age scale older people are living longer lives and are more likely to need treatment for multiple illnesses. Then there's IVF. It's great we have treatment for all these things but I really can't see how the NHS can support everyone for everything from the cradle to the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Paul71 said: You will be claiming tony blair is solely the reason the good friday agreement got signed next I think without a Labour government in the 40s we wouldn't have had the NHS. And I think the concept of the NHS got Labour elected, and we owe a lot to the likes of Bevan. It's unthinkable in today's terms, that such a major investment in ordinary people could be contemplated. Yet I don't believe for one second that we are a poorer nation now than we were post war. Why was such a bold step not only possible then (I'd argue it was the foundation of everything that we've achieved since) but less ambitious investment - like broadband for all, the equivalent of building the railroads for a digital age - is so unthinkable today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, maxjam said: How? Everything is still going to be open 24/7, you're just gonna have to employ more people to get the same amout of work done. Unless you work in an office and your boss is happy for everyone to take Friiday off and take a 20% hit in productivity someone will have to sit at your desk even if you're not there. You're confusing productivity with hours worked, not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: How? Everything is still going to be open 24/7, you're just gonna have to employ more people to get the same amout of work done. Unless you work in an office and your boss is happy for everyone to take Friiday off and take a 20% hit in productivity someone will have to sit at your desk even if you're not there. Even better result from a four-day week. More employment. These policies that the Labour Party want to introduce sounding better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said: Not going to let this comment go without standing up for the girls. My mother was the major breadwinner when I was growing up and two of my daughter in laws earn considerably more than their husbands. Spend your money girls- you've earned it! My mother left me at 12 yrs old left my dad with 6 kids to bring up in the 70s nearly got put into care. My dad worked 7 days a week had some hard times. Lots of divorced fathers end up on the streets due to gender inequallty but it's not a vote winner so nobody cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Yes life is really tough for some people and others seem to sail through life stress free. Life is definitely like a lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I think without a Labour government in the 40s we wouldn't have had the NHS. And I think the concept of the NHS got Labour elected, and we owe a lot to the likes of Bevan. It's unthinkable in today's terms, that such a major investment in ordinary people could be contemplated. Yet I don't believe for one second that we are a poorer nation now than we were post war. Why was such a bold step not only possible then (I'd argue it was the foundation of everything that we've achieved since) but less ambitious investment - like broadband for all, the equivalent of building the railroads for a digital age - is so unthinkable today? Yet many claim the NHS would have happened post war regardless if who was in power The foundations of the NHS were laid during the war years, labour followed it through and of course there should be credit for that, but to claim absolute credit for it is a really seeing the world through rose, or red tinted glasses. Just to add Blairs part in the peace process, yes of course there should be credit, but its evident that even amongst the labour government at the time that john major was considered a key part of the final outcome. Sometimes it is good to look beyond ones own blinkered views and accept that their are successes on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Even better result from a four-day week. More employment. These policies that the Labour Party want to introduce sounding better and better. Unless your boss docks you a days pay? Or goes under because he can't afford to give everyone a 20% pay rise 15 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: You're confusing productivity with hours worked, not the same thing. Ah so you're expecting people to do 5 days work in 4? What if you work in a factory and the machines can only go so fast? Someone is still gonna have to come in on Friday to maintain the same level of production as they currently do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Yet many claim the NHS would have happened post war regardless if who was in power The foundations of the NHS were laid during the war years, labour followed it through and of course there should be credit for that, but to claim absolute credit for it is a really seeing the world through rose, or red tinted glasses. Conservatives fought against it all the way. They voted against it 22 times in the 40s. I know they want to rewrite history but you shouldn't let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Conservatives fought against it all the way. They voted against it 22 times in the 40s. I know they want to rewrite history but you shouldn't let them. In the 40s ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, maxjam said: Unless your boss docks you a days pay? Or goes under because he can't afford to give everyone a 20% pay rise Ah so you're expecting people to do 5 days work in 4? What if you work in a factory and the machines can only go so fast? Someone is still gonna have to come in on Friday to maintain the same level of production as they currently do. I do work in a factory, and have seen and benefitted from a machine that can condense 40 hours work into much less than, depending on the person operating it. I'm a lucky beneficiary, as are my colleagues, as indeed are my employers. Everyone's a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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