The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Having spent a day in A&E last week I can tell you that 90% of the people in there (as patients) were over the age of 70, and almost exclusively white

I can also tell you that almost all of those I saw being treated while I waited probably didn't need to be in A&E and could have gone to the Walk-In Centre for minor injuries.

OK - so it was just a snapshot of 1 day, but I have no reason to believe it was an outlier. I'd say the burden on the NHS comes from the ageing population more than it does any imagined groundswell of poorly illegal immigrants

I dont recall mentioning skin colour or immigration? It's a very unhealthy obsession you have. 

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

True, but they did say it would be the easiest deal in history and countries would be queuing up to deal with us.

It morphed into everyone voted for No Deal.

It may have been without a Remainer Parliament and prime minister?

I dont think its morphed into 'everyone voted for...'. Just that people voted Leave and no deal was one of the potential outcomes.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Glad to see you agree with the Labour party.

The conservatives have been under funding the NHS for years.

Yep no problem with admitting that.

I think we should sell our gold reserves and fund the NHS with it, oh wait...

[Van der MoodHoover]

20 minutes ago, bcnram said:

I agree with you views on football. I think you worry too much about possible outcomes should the tories be re-elected. My worry is that Corbyn and his union backed politburo gain power and take the country into financial ruin again. ?

Again? How are you defining "financial ruin"?

The books haven't been balanced since, despite years of austerity etc and I was reading in the FT yesterday (hardly a Corbyn apologist rag) that made the following points.....

- Government spending has been growing faster than originally anticipated by the OBR, mostly because Mr Javid announced higher spending on Brexit preparations and there is some evidence of a loss of spending control.

-Additionally, much of the so-called “fiscal headroom” left by Philip Hammond to his successor has been used up.

Elsewhere it was suggested that the deficit could be twice as high as forecast earlier in the year by the OBR at something like £50bn. Higher than before the financial crash which trashed the income side of the equation.

And this is BEFORE we get to the election manifestos.

 

We have never come out of financial ruin - and won't whichever party is in power. We can't because we cannot make enough/tax enough to cover our expenditure.

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Let's be honest, the NHS is s shadow of its former self.

The times when I have needed it in recent years I have been unable to access it because I've not rang up to tell them about my illness 2 weeks in advance.

Its reaching the stage of being unfit for purpose if the people funding it can access it efficiently.

Major funding or reform required.

Have to say I have found the service to be excellent.

[Stive Pesley]

33 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont recall mentioning skin colour or immigration? It's a very unhealthy obsession you have. 

I didn't say you did. Terribly sorry if you imagined a slight that wasn't there. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Have to say I have found the service to be excellent.

But people can only go off their own personal experiences. 

My recent experience is:-

Can I have an appointment with a doctor please?

"No, you have to ring up at 8am to get an appointment"

Ok well I do the school run every morning so that is impossible.

"Well you will have to keep on ringing and hope to get a cancellation"

I have a job and cant just sit there on the phone all day.

"Well come into surgery at 8am"

Please refer back to my first point. Can I book an appointment for next week then?

"No we are fully booked and cant book more than a week in advance"

Ok, so how do I get an appointment?

"Ring up at 8am and sit in a telephone queue"

Ok thanks for your help.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

I didn't say you did. Terribly sorry if you imagined a slight that wasn't there

Why bring skin colour and immigration into the argument then?

It's ok....I worked it out, I voted Leave so my opinion on any subject must relate back to race and immigration.

 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

It may have been without a Remainer Parliament and prime minister?

I dont think its morphed into 'everyone voted for...'. Just that people voted Leave and no deal was one of the potential outcomes.

One of the possible outcomes that no one mentioned as they were all too busy saying it would be the easiest deal ever without thinking of a single bit of detail of how things could happen.

You would have thought some of the lifelong leavers like Farage and Johnson(!) would have given it a little bit of thought.

[ariotofmyown]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But people can only go off their own personal experiences. 

My recent experience is:-

Can I have an appointment with a doctor please?

"No, you have to ring up at 8am to get an appointment"

Ok well I do the school run every morning so that is impossible.

"Well you will have to keep on ringing and hope to get a cancellation"

I have a job and cant just sit there on the phone all day.

"Well come into surgery at 8am"

Please refer back to my first point. Can I book an appointment for next week then?

"No we are fully booked and cant book more than a week in advance"

Ok, so how do I get an appointment?

"Ring up at 8am and sit in a telephone queue"

Ok thanks for your help.

Aren't doctors private though? 

[Stive Pesley]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why bring skin colour and immigration into the argument then?

It's ok....I worked it out, I voted Leave so my opinion on any subject must relate back to race and immigration.

 

The fact you're still banging on about it suggests maybe you subconsciously feel guilty about something?

Ugh dog whistle politics is the worst - and we're about to get LOADS of it ?

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

One of the possible outcomes that no one mentioned as they were all too busy saying it would be the easiest deal ever without thinking of a single bit of detail of how things could happen.

You would have thought some of the lifelong leavers like Farage and Johnson(!) would have given it a little bit of thought.

Sorry but that is just factually incorrect. There are plenty of videos out there showing politicians discussing what would happen in the event of a no deal.

[Van der MoodHoover]

37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But people can only go off their own personal experiences. 

My recent experience is:-

Can I have an appointment with a doctor please?

"No, you have to ring up at 8am to get an appointment"

Ok well I do the school run every morning so that is impossible.

"Well you will have to keep on ringing and hope to get a cancellation"

I have a job and cant just sit there on the phone all day.

"Well come into surgery at 8am"

Please refer back to my first point. Can I book an appointment for next week then?

"No we are fully booked and cant book more than a week in advance"

Ok, so how do I get an appointment?

"Ring up at 8am and sit in a telephone queue"

Ok thanks for your help.

Perhaps investigate whether you can change your practice?

By introducing a pseudo "internal market" people are now getting a non-homogenous experience. 

But surely you're not advocating complete uniformity of service with no incentive for practices to differentiate themselves, you old commie.....? ?

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

The fact you're still banging on about it suggests maybe you subconsciously feel guilty about something?

Ugh dog whistle politics is the worst - and we're about to get LOADS of it ?

 

Banging on about it?

I said NHS was struggling to cope with numbers. 

You then responded mentioning white men and immigration in your response.

If you're going to try and put a race/immigration slant on the debate at least have the balls to admit you've done it.

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Perhaps investigate whether you can change your practice?

Why should I have to?

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

But people can only go off their own personal experiences. 

 

Of course yes. 

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

But people can only go off their own personal experiences. 

My recent experience is:-

Can I have an appointment with a doctor please?

"No, you have to ring up at 8am to get an appointment"

Ok well I do the school run every morning so that is impossible.

"Well you will have to keep on ringing and hope to get a cancellation"

I have a job and cant just sit there on the phone all day.

"Well come into surgery at 8am"

Please refer back to my first point. Can I book an appointment for next week then?

"No we are fully booked and cant book more than a week in advance"

Ok, so how do I get an appointment?

"Ring up at 8am and sit in a telephone queue"

Ok thanks for your help.

I am sure it differs service to service.

My local GP is excellent. Yes for 'non urgent' appointments you have to be organised and book ahead but they keep a certain number of slots free each day for more urgent matters.

You can also book and manage appointments online.

I tell you what though, if a political party had it in their mandate to make the British population more responsible too i would consider it a vote winner. Perhaps getting an appointment would be easier for all of us if people didn't A) Make appointments then not bother turning up or B) Go to the doctors with every little ailment, its a cold get over it, visiting the GP wont make it better. Perhaps that's a different discussion, I am just trying to make my point that a service that is under incredible strain from a growing, ageing and at times thoughtless and irresponsible population is doing ok in my opinion, thats not to say of course it doesnt need to be better.

 

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I said NHS was struggling to cope with numbers. 

[GboroRam]

43 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Banging on about it?

I said NHS was struggling to cope with numbers. 

You then responded mentioning white men and immigration in your response.

If you're going to try and put a race/immigration slant on the debate at least have the balls to admit you've done it.

 

Not saying you were making any such comment, but a common argument for Brexit is we need to stop the overburdening of services such as the health service. Immigration is seen as the cause of damage to the health service and health tourism is touted as a problem that needs attacking. That the NHS is buckling under pressure from the increase in demand from immigrants.

Most data does not back that up and Stive's personal experience meets with the consensus - that demand on the NHS is primarily driven by an aging population. In the sense that the average age is going up. we need to fund the NHS more than if it was static. Not only is population growing, it's aging as well.

It may not be what your comment was, but it's a comment that is heard often: the NHS needs saving and immigration is the antithesis of that.

[Stive Pesley]

19 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

It may not be what your comment was, but it's a comment that is heard often: the NHS needs saving and immigration is the antithesis of that.

Exactly - at no point did I suggest that G Star had made that comment, but he immediately sprang to his own defence. Against an accusation that hadn't been made. But I'm the one that is obsessed...