Should we keep faith?

[Curtains]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

It's a tricky one but you've got to be looking for promotion otherwise what is the point?!

A few teams have held their own in the Premier League without massive investment.

For the first time in a long time Premier League teams are all making profits (I think) and therefore organic growth is possible if them profits are reinvested.

I enjoy being competitive in this league but to be honest I'm at the stage now of thinking we've spent/are spending enough to think we are only actually achieving anything by making the play offs as a minimum, unfortunately that is the by product of all the money that MM has invested.

I think Mel has been good for DCFC but understandably has resistances about spending too much to achieve promotion.

Unfortunately that’s our Achilles heal  

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think Mel has been good for DCFC but understandably has resistances about spending too much to achieve promotion.

Unfortunately that’s our Achilles heal  

Disagree strongly. Way more than enough has been invested. Whether the manager have invested it wisely or not is a different matter.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Disagree strongly. Way more than enough has been invested. Whether the manager have invested it wisely or not is a different matter.

So the Vydra and Wiemann sale brought in 13 Million alone this season. 

How much has Lampard spent ! 

[Sexydadbod]

I feel the same tbh. For me of the more recent years, the game against BRighton in the play off semi finals was the peak. Everyone was on one side, the atmosphere was brilliant, almost party , carnival like after years of suffering in the championship. The team played brilliant attacking football with a fairly cheap team who we could all identify with, as well as Simmo on the sidelines.

Even the season after it was the same at times and I felt we had a genuine chance of promotion. Since then, I’ve felt drained and felt we have regressed heavily as a team and that we are a million miles away from promotion realistically. The buzz went up slightly when Clement came in with all these new ideas like the diamond but that went out the window when Hughes got his injury. 

[Curtains]

 

G Star Ram for your info 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/derby-county/transfers/verein/22

 

[Day]

9 minutes ago, McLovin said:

we are a million miles away from promotion realistically.

We’re actually 6th in the Championship, which is a play off position, potentially 3 games away from promotion, just like last season.

We haven’t just had a week or two in the top 6, we’ve been there most of the season, why? Because other clubs are not consistently good enough.

Wigan 3-0 Villa

Reading 2-0 Forest

Brentford 3-1 Stoke

If you think this is a million miles away, makes you wonder why the rest of the Chanmpionship even bother turning up.

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So the Vydra and Wiemann sale brought in 13 Million alone this season. 

How much has Lampard spent ! 

Complete guesswork:

Waghorn £5m

Marriott £3m

Malone £3m

Holmes £1m

Evans £1m

Tomori/Wilson/Mount £1.5m

Not sure if these estimates are reasonable or not, happy for alternatives to be suggested.

Vydra and Weimann may have bought in £13m but that completely overlooks the fact that we spent £10m? on them in the first place.

We've made £3m profit on them 2 players and then spent maybe in excess of £10m on top of that.

[Day]

11 hours ago, Harrogate ram said:

leeds reminded me of where we were as a bunch of supporters back at the BBG. 

Derby fans would not have been admiring all things Leeds United back in the BBG days.

@uttoxram75 come and remind us what those days were like.

Now I’m not suggesting we return to the days of kicking lumps out of each other, but maybe bring back some of that this is our club, you’re in our city and none of this weren’t the Leeds scarfs pretty.

Those pretty scarfs were a club organised effort to get the fans ramping up the atmosphere, they were encouraged to bring one along and the fans did.

Our owner gives fans a scarf to bring and wave, try to improve the atmosphere and we moan about it being a PR exercise.

1884 Group were hounded out because holding up a piece of card for the players to see when they walked out is too cringeworthy, fans which went out there way to give up their time pre match putting the cards out. I helped once, and almost 2hrs think it took, remember turning to the missus saying I won’t get time for a pint at this rate. 

Our manager calls for the fans to get behind the team as it helps, and we get one stand trying to make an effort with those sat in the other 3 sat judging thinking they are Simon Cowell and later criticising the performance online. 

Is it on the ticket terms and conditions that the West and East are not allowed to vocally support the team?

Too quick to knock each other and yes I see the irony in that statement right now, than to do anything about it and change anything, just sit and moan just like I am now.

[FindernRam]

13 minutes ago, David said:

If you think this is a million miles away, makes you wonder why the rest of the Chanmpionship even bother turning up

That's a good point: The collective standard is so low now in the Championship that whoever goes up this year (possibly excepting Leeds) will come straight back down, so why bother indeed.

But it is more than that. You can watch top quality football almost every night if you want, this highlights the deficiencies of your own team. If you get footied out you can sit down with a good box set and a bottle of scotch. The passion is dying -not due to age as someone suggested - but by competition from other things. This has been going on for years and is accelerating. Years ago the Monday morning coffee maker chat in the office (from the men at least) would be the game over the weekend, nothing else got a look in. These days its almost everything else. 

People travel further to work these days so local team affinities are declining. In my office in Derby when I retired there 2 Derby fans, 2 Chelsea, I Man united, 1 Arsenal, 2 Coventry , these were fans who went to games. Difficult to debate a penalty decision when no one else was there!

[Curtains]

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Complete guesswork:

Waghorn £5m

Marriott £3m

Malone £3m

Holmes £1m

Evans £1m

Tomori/Wilson/Mount £1.5m

Not sure if these estimates are reasonable or not, happy for alternatives to be suggested.

Vydra and Weimann may have bought in £13m but that completely overlooks the fact that we spent £10m? on them in the first place.

We've made £3m profit on them 2 players and then spent maybe in excess of £10m on top of that.

Good point .

Still nothing like enough spent to get Top of the League. 

[Sexydadbod]

38 minutes ago, David said:

We’re actually 6th in the Championship, which is a play off position, potentially 3 games away from promotion, just like last season.

We haven’t just had a week or two in the top 6, we’ve been there most of the season, why? Because other clubs are not consistently good enough.

Wigan 3-0 Villa

Reading 2-0 Forest

Brentford 3-1 Stoke

If you think this is a million miles away, makes you wonder why the rest of the Chanmpionship even bother turning up.

It’s just my view but it’s night and day between the quality with this team and a few years back. We got into the play offs last season but we had nowhere near enough quality to go and win it

[King Kevin]

9 hours ago, Harrogate ram said:

From pop side to c stand to Nottingham on a Saturday afternoon out of season (some oldies will remember) the only thing constant in my life has been DCFC. Watching my first game at 9 years old against Man Utd in the key club. Home and away since I was 14. I have seen rubbish ( Carlisle away) and I have seen good .. wanchope at Man Utd. Had a season ticket since 91 despite living in Oz for 8 of those years blah blah. I have never questioned my faith in being a derby fan. It is a massive part of my life .. 

However I had a bit of an epiphany on Friday. I was sat with the Leeds fans at Elland Road.  And as much as I despise the club I could do nothing but admire the atmosphere and the sheer passion that they showed. It took me back to being a youngster at the BBG. 

I currently have a season ticket in the east stand at Derby, and the difference between the Leeds fans and the people where I sit was unbelievable ( good people around where I sit, but they could be at the cinema or panto for all the passion there is)

leeds reminded me of where we were as a bunch of supporters back at the BBG. 

I know the football was dire on Friday, but I am starting to lose my faith and I need some wise words from someone out there to get me back on the straight and narrow. 

There are a few of us who travel together for every home game(over 200 miles round trip for a home game) and we are all struggling to understand why we bother.

So in short- is it just us that are losing the will or are there others out there.. .?

 

 

 

 

 

It's your age mate ,45 years ago two wrong words about Derby would have got someone a slap ,went to Leeds on Friday expecting us to not turn up and lose .I wasn't born cynical but unfortunately I was right.

[Alph]

2 hours ago, David said:

Derby fans would not have been admiring all things Leeds United back in the BBG days.

@uttoxram75 come and remind us what those days were like.

Now I’m not suggesting we return to the days of kicking lumps out of each other, but maybe bring back some of that this is our club, you’re in our city and none of this weren’t the Leeds scarfs pretty.

Those pretty scarfs were a club organised effort to get the fans ramping up the atmosphere, they were encouraged to bring one along and the fans did.

Our owner gives fans a scarf to bring and wave, try to improve the atmosphere and we moan about it being a PR exercise.

1884 Group were hounded out because holding up a piece of card for the players to see when they walked out is too cringeworthy, fans which went out there way to give up their time pre match putting the cards out. I helped once, and almost 2hrs think it took, remember turning to the missus saying I won’t get time for a pint at this rate. 

Our manager calls for the fans to get behind the team as it helps, and we get one stand trying to make an effort with those sat in the other 3 sat judging thinking they are Simon Cowell and later criticising the performance online. 

Is it on the ticket terms and conditions that the West and East are not allowed to vocally support the team?

Too quick to knock each other and yes I see the irony in that statement right now, than to do anything about it and change anything, just sit and moan just like I am now.

It's only Monday but I can't see anyone topping this post all week. 

The danger is you invited @uttoxram75 to tell a story so you will only have yourself to blame.

His stories are like poetry. Written by the Krays but poetry all the same.  

[Sexydadbod]

9 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

That's a good point: The collective standard is so low now in the Championship that whoever goes up this year (possibly excepting Leeds) will come straight back down, so why bother indeed.

But it is more than that. You can watch top quality football almost every night if you want, this highlights the deficiencies of your own team. If you get footied out you can sit down with a good box set and a bottle of scotch. The passion is dying -not due to age as someone suggested - but by competition from other things. This has been going on for years and is accelerating. Years ago the Monday morning coffee maker chat in the office (from the men at least) would be the game over the weekend, nothing else got a look in. These days its almost everything else. 

People travel further to work these days so local team affinities are declining. In my office in Derby when I retired there 2 Derby fans, 2 Chelsea, I Man united, 1 Arsenal, 2 Coventry , these were fans who went to games. Difficult to debate a penalty decision when no one else was there!

Exactly, even if by a miracle this team went up, we’d come back down straight away because we can’t keep clean sheets , don’t score enough goals and there are too many flaws with this side. If we went up, I’d want us to be at least competitive. That McClaren team would have done quite well in the premier league in my opinion because we had the right balance and there was a somewhat of a level playing field in the premier league in comparison to now where they money was ridiculous, it was back then but not as much as now. I felt a connection with that team. With this current one? Not at all. I’m sure they mean well but many of them are here because we paid them the most money. Even Lampard will probably be gone by the end of next season. I like him but he’s a Chelsea man at heart, same with Jody.

 Look at that Fulham side that got promoted last season and how much better than they were compared to us and add another 100 million to that, look at where they are in the premier league table. 

[Day]

30 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

That's a good point: The collective standard is so low now in the Championship that whoever goes up this year (possibly excepting Leeds) will come straight back down, so why bother indeed.

But it is more than that. You can watch top quality football almost every night if you want, this highlights the deficiencies of your own team. If you get footied out you can sit down with a good box set and a bottle of scotch. The passion is dying -not due to age as someone suggested - but by competition from other things. This has been going on for years and is accelerating. Years ago the Monday morning coffee maker chat in the office (from the men at least) would be the game over the weekend, nothing else got a look in. These days its almost everything else. 

People travel further to work these days so local team affinities are declining. In my office in Derby when I retired there 2 Derby fans, 2 Chelsea, I Man united, 1 Arsenal, 2 Coventry , these were fans who went to games. Difficult to debate a penalty decision when no one else was there!

You say the passion is dying but here we are in a topic admiring the Leeds support and scarf waving.

In 15/16 Leeds average attendances dropped to 21,667

2 seasons later they are 10k higher!

And we’re supposed to somehow in awe of them, sorry but I’m not.

They are no different to most clubs fans in that they turn up in numbers when things are great, the problem Derby has we’ve been this top 6 side now for a number of seasons and the novelty has worn off somewhat and now we’re seen as failures each year we don’t go up. 

Another club, Sheffield Wednesday, average attendance in the promotion season in League 1 was 21,336, the first season in the Championship saw a bump to 24,078 but once the fans realised they would be struggling after finishing 18th, the following season it was even lower at 21,239.

22,641 saw the season they finished top 6 which ramped up expectations, the next season 27,129 fans filled Hillsbrough to them finish 4th.

Exactly the same thing will happen at Leeds if they somehow mess it up this season, they will tolerate it for another year before getting fed up and numbers decline.

The Championship is stuffed full of clubs which believe they should be in the Premier League, clubs that have been there more recently yet we still put ourselves in that group and so we should, this club is setup for the Premier League.

The game is changing though as you say and TV has had an impact, as has social media, we live in a bi polar world where one minute we’re amazing and the next a laughing stock. Again no different to other clubs, we took a beating on Friday night but have you seen the Villa fans after losing 3-0 away to Wigan? Ouch!

All awareness of the level Championship clubs are at goes out the window, I saw suggestions the other day we should be signing Batshuayi on loan!

It feels like every club is being judged by the standard Liverpool and Man City set, which is why players like Keogh get torn apart. Super Sunday defenders costing 75x more than what we paid for him.

The thing I find weird is, you look around all Championship club forums and every single one has fans saying the Premier League isn’t all that, the Championship is better, far more entertaining. 

Then when a club such as Derby, Forest, Villa or Stoke lose a game it’s absolute meltdown. 

We’re miles away from promotion, why can’t we have him, why can’t we play like them, why do we have to suffer, everyone is laughing at us. 

And if the Championship is so great, why do fans only turn up when you’re top 6?

We all want the Premier League, we all want entertaining football and we all get frustrated when it’s not happening.

Sorry for all the words, full of cold and come back after a couple of days off line and we have a sub branch of the Leeds United fan club on here and it’s making me ratty. Although I do believe my observations are correct.

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Good point .

Still nothing like enough spent to get Top of the League. 

Why how much have Leeds, Norwich, Sheff United, West Brom and Boro spent?

They are the teams between us and top spot.

[Dambuster]

9 hours ago, RamNut said:

Scrub the loanees, the injured, and the out of contracts,  and this is what we have got......

                          Carson

bogle.      Keogh.     Wisdom       Malone

.                      Evans  

          Holmes      Lawrence 

waghorn.       Marriott.      Jozefzoon

 

plenty to do.

 

The worrying thing is Lampard signed six of these.

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why how much have Leeds, Norwich, Sheff United, West Brom and Boro spent?

They are the teams between us and top spot.

Ok you have a point but what base squad did they start from this season compared to Frank .

Its all relevant .

I think Frankis doing well with what hand he has been dealt. 

[superzak]

Poor football = poor support , back in the early seventies if you werent on the Ossie end by 13.30  it was the back of the Popside for you. The Popside would be singing, the C stand would be singing ,the Ossie end would be singing and that was before kick off, and the reason why people were so enthusiastic was we had a winning side...before kick off no matter how big a side we were playing we knew we would win...makes it so much easier to be enthusiastic with the support. Also football is too sanitised these days...the sight of Dave Mackay or Roy Mac running out the tunnel leading the team out seperate to the opposition somehow made it more of us verses them. None of this standing in line and having a kiss and cuddle with opposition before kick off.

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Ok you have a point but what base squad did they start from this season compared to Frank .

Its all relevant .

I think Frankis doing well with what hand he has been dealt. 

Boro had a squad that finished 5th. Had a new manager halfway through last season and they added Flint, Saville and McNair. They sold Traore, Gibson and Bamford.

Sheffield United had a squad that finished 10th. Same manager for 2 1/2 years. They signed Egan and Norwood. They sold David Brooks.

Leeds had a squad that finished 13th. New manager at the beginning of the season. They signed Bamford  (who is out injured) and Douglas. They sold Vieira and Saiz has now left.

Norwich had a squad that finished 14th. Same manager for 1 1/2 years. They signed Marshall, Leitner and Buendia. They sold Maddison and Murphy.

West Brom were obviously relegated from Premier League. New manager midway through last season. They signed Johnstone and Bartley. They sold Chadli, McClean, Evans and Foster.

In summary none of the club's have had their manager that long.

Most sold key players and replaced with new signings.