Monday Musing-We are no longer rigid

[TuffLuff]

I guess this is similar to the flexible midfield thread but thought it was worthy of its own point.

With the incoming transfer of Waghorn, along with Marriott, Evans, Mount and Wilson the two things I’m quite impressed by is that these options can play in more than one position and all bring something we didn’t previously have in the squad. Yes players need to be shifted out, and we can only presume that will happen soon, but realistically I think we are nearly at having a well balanced squad where every player has a part to play. Under Rowett, my big criticism was our over reliance on one style of player and certain players. I don’t get the sense   have that now, different players can come in for different games depending on what is needed. I’d even go as far to say the idea of ‘keep playing a trusted 11’ is starting to be outdated. Players need to be able to fit into a system seamingly and I’m much more comfortable that we are providing that. Also if players are comfortable in different positions, it means we can swap players about against opposition defenders and not weaken ourselves. I’m quite excited by it.

Finally another thing I really like is on Friday night Given and Pearce were constantly talking to each other on the bench. Pearce is a bit part player now but I’m glad they seemingly keep players like him involved and as part of the unit.

 

[EnigmaRam]

I’m pretty rigid most of the time to be fair! ?

[G STAR RAM]

Not sure if I've missed anything here but who are the players that we have bought in who are comfortable in multiple roles?

[AndyinLiverpool]

Speak for yourself

[TuffLuff]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure if I've missed anything here but who are the players that we have bought in who are comfortable in multiple roles?

Waghorn-played across the front 3 his whole career

Marriott- presumably more central but could go across the lone striker/central of the three

Wilson-either wing

Mount- across the three

Evans - central midfield or defence

Josefzoon- either wing 

Its also that each player brings something slightly different in their styles of play. So we can mix it up game to game making us difficult to predict 

[G STAR RAM]

I seem to remember when we've done things like that before there was an outcry of 'square pegs in round holes'.

 

[eddie]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I seem to remember when we've done things like that before there was an outcry of 'square pegs in round holes'.

 

Yes, but some of those who were making that criticism were starfish-shaped holes themselves.

[jono]

We are more flexible and mobile, we will get there but I am still a little worried about the middle of the park after the Reading game. 

We missed Hudds. The middle needs sorting, not a lot, but roles and responsibilities in terms of who is more the anchor and who is more the driving force.

[TuffLuff]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I seem to remember when we've done things like that before there was an outcry of 'square pegs in round holes'.

 

Square pegs round holes is a different debate though, that’s putting  players like Johnson at left back when you might get 90 minutes out of him but he doesn’t have the attributes to play there consistently. This is having players who’s attributes mean they can move between positions in the context of 90 minutes and not weaken us. Which has been a problem in the past.

[TuffLuff]

15 minutes ago, jono said:

We are more flexible and mobile, we will get there but I am still a little worried about the middle of the park after the Reading game. 

We missed Hudds. The middle needs sorting, not a lot, but roles and responsibilities in terms of who is more the anchor and who is more the driving force.

The midfields am interesting one but maybe im coming from a perspective that I didn’t think it was that bad. Might get a better perspective at the home game, but thought Bryson looked a more accomplished player than we’d seen in a while and Ledley quietly went about his business as he does. By doing that they gave Mount the space to influence the game up top, and because of it I thought he looked really impressive. Maybe I’m wrong. but I didn’t think ‘we aren’t controlling the midfield’ or anything like that. To be honest after the first 30 minutes I thought Bryson was controlling the tempo of the game which was a good thing

[G STAR RAM]

38 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Square pegs round holes is a different debate though, that’s putting  players like Johnson at left back when you might get 90 minutes out of him but he doesn’t have the attributes to play there consistently. This is having players who’s attributes mean they can move between positions in the context of 90 minutes and not weaken us. Which has been a problem in the past.

Making this call after one very disappointing 93 minutes of competitive football seems a bit strange to me.

[TuffLuff]

21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Making this call after one very disappointing 93 minutes of competitive football seems a bit strange to me.

I think you are just being very disappointingly argumentative though which seems a bit strange to me.

Its not just about the 90 minutes of football it’s about the types of players we’ve signed and their attributes over what we have had here before and what they will bring which is different.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I think you are just being very disappointingly argumentative though which seems a bit strange to me.

Its not just about the 90 minutes of football it’s about the types of players we’ve signed and their attributes over what we have had here before and what they will bring which is different.

Ok I will hold my hands up if I'm out of order.

I'm genuinely interested to know what attributes each of the players you mentioned have that means they can play these different roles at this level.

I really hope you are right but I think we are seeing a lot of statements, not particularly aimed at you, from people just based on guesswork and the return of the feelgood factor.

I'd hoped that Friday was a bit of an eye opener and that people would be brought back down to earth a bit.

I feel we will challenge this year but some of the comments flying around may set us up for a big fall if we don't. 

[TuffLuff]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ok I will hold my hands up if I'm out of order.

I'm genuinely interested to know what attributes each of the players you mentioned have that means they can play these different roles at this level.

I really hope you are right but I think we are seeing a lot of statements, not particularly aimed at you, from people just based on guesswork and the return of the feelgood factor.

I'd hoped that Friday was a bit of an eye opener and that people would be brought back down to earth a bit.

I feel we will challenge this year but some of the comments flying around may set us up for a big fall if we don't. 

Fair enough G Star, apologies I went a little OTT. I’m not someone who tries to post a blank statement without backing it up. On holiday atm (had a beer which doesn’t help) but I’ll get back with a proper response in a bit. Just wanted to apologise for getting fiesty rather than leave it hanging!

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Fair enough G Star, apologies I went a little OTT. I’m not someone who tries to post a blank statement without backing it up. On holiday atm (had a beer which doesn’t help) but I’ll get back with a proper response in a bit. Just wanted to apologise for getting fiesty rather than leave it hanging!

No worries, we are on an Internet forum debating the team we all love, if we weren't so passionate about them we wouldn't be on here!

Certainly no need to apologise, Ive had people abusing me on here for years and certainly won't take offence! 

Enjoy your holiday! We can agree I was right all along when you get back ?

[europia]

8 hours ago, jono said:

We are more flexible and mobile, we will get there but I am still a little worried about the middle of the park after the Reading game. 

We missed Hudds. The middle needs sorting, not a lot, but roles and responsibilities in terms of who is more the anchor and who is more the driving force.

Yes it could work if the other two midfielders have good engines. Tom was never the most mobile and that aspect of his games is unlikely to change. 

[jono]

10 hours ago, europia said:

Yes it could work if the other two midfielders have good engines. Tom was never the most mobile and that aspect of his games is unlikely to change. 

Agreed but Tom doesn’t need to move too much if he sits deep and sprays passes around. It’s a interesting point though .. would that then slow us down .. perennial problem for me .. getting the midfield high enough up to mix in the the attackers. If anyone can make it work then Frank can. Going to be an interesting season 

[richinspain]

20 minutes ago, jono said:

Agreed but Tom doesn’t need to move too much if he sits deep and sprays passes around. It’s a interesting point though .. would that then slow us down .. perennial problem for me .. getting the midfield high enough up to mix in the the attackers. If anyone can make it work then Frank can. Going to be an interesting season 

Why do you think that if anyone can make it work Frank can? What has he shown you in 5 friendlies and one league game that makes you think that? He was a world class midfielder who could make things work whilst on the pitch, but he's now stood on the touch line or on the training pitch having to get his thoughts across to championship players.

I'm not having a dig at you in particular, just picking up on the last post of it's kind. I'm not a doom sayer either. I honestly do believe that with FL's intelligence plus the staff he has around him that he will make work. It is however an assumption. I will also trust his judgment with signings but again we have no evidence that he can produce. I'm actually a happy clapper who always believes that we have got the best people working for our club, but saying that if anyone can make it work it's Frank I think is a little premature and hope that deep down everyone realises this. He's Frank Lampard apprentice manager (yes he's got a 100% win record), not Pep Guardiola or Jose Mourinho who at this moment I really would be confident of them sorting the team out. As was said when he first took over, let's just enjoy the ride. COYR.

[jono]

1 hour ago, richinspain said:

Why do you think that if anyone can make it work Frank can? What has he shown you in 5 friendlies and one league game that makes you think that? He was a world class midfielder who could make things work whilst on the pitch, but he's now stood on the touch line or on the training pitch having to get his thoughts across to championship players.

I'm not having a dig at you in particular, just picking up on the last post of it's kind. I'm not a doom sayer either. I honestly do believe that with FL's intelligence plus the staff he has around him that he will make work. It is however an assumption. I will also trust his judgment with signings but again we have no evidence that he can produce. I'm actually a happy clapper who always believes that we have got the best people working for our club, but saying that if anyone can make it work it's Frank I think is a little premature and hope that deep down everyone realises this. He's Frank Lampard apprentice manager (yes he's got a 100% win record), not Pep Guardiola or Jose Mourinho who at this moment I really would be confident of them sorting the team out. As was said when he first took over, let's just enjoy the ride. COYR.

It’s a fair point ...and as yet Frank isn’t god incarnate from my POV, but as a player who knows his position and has worked with some of the best coaches in the world, hands on so to speak, I think he is more likely than most to understand what is needed and how critical certain things are when it comes to the successful attributes of a midfielder within a team. That said, your point is sound and logical; knowing and doing are different things - but I reckon Frank has, at the very least, something extra that the usual untried ex player, turned manager doesn’t have, hence my rather optimistic statement. 

[richinspain]

14 minutes ago, jono said:

It’s a fair point ...and as yet Frank isn’t god incarnate from my POV, but as a player who knows his position and has worked with some of the best coaches in the world, hands on so to speak, I think he is more likely than most to understand what is needed and how critical certain things are when it comes to the successful attributes of a midfielder within a team. That said, your point is sound and logical; knowing and doing are different things - but I reckon Frank has, at the very least, something extra that the usual untried ex player, turned manager doesn’t have, hence my rather optimistic statement. 

I actually agree with you, but as I said he is as yet untried and it is different being able to understand instructions and carry them out to actually getting your own instructions across to other (inferior?) players. Hopefully he will succeed with distinction, and we as a club will benefit.