cheron85 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Papahet said: the only reason for that is simple, FFP, from Mel's spending spree in the first place! 6 minutes ago, Papahet said: If you spend small, they are most likely to be aging hasbeens no other sod wants a'la Bent, Warnock, Shackell and Baird. The above sums up your lack of clarity - In two posts which are back to back you complain about having spent too much - And then you complain that if you don't spend you don't get good players Also Shackell cost megabucks and Baird was good for us 9 minutes ago, Papahet said: Hindsight. Show me the squad and it's age and potential in 2014 and then stick up the crap we currently have contracted today. Not sure why you're saying this back - My entire point is that it's all very well complaining and looking back but that's just the benefit of hindsight Every suggestion after the McClaren playoff miss was that our squad lacked consistency and experience - Which successive managers have tried to bring in - We have too many players cos we've had too many managers - But unless you have a personal phone line to the directors box you have NO idea who was making the hiring and firing decsions I challenge you again - To do something which seems out of your comfort zone - Suggest a positive next step - What should we be doing next? How should we correct this? Please do give us your pearls of wisdom - Cos at the moment all you've done is moan, whine and cry nonsense My prediction is your response will be "it's not my job to suggest how to fix it - That's what the club has to do" - Yeh? Well it's not your job to come here and whine about everything either - You still seem capable of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Papahet said: GSE had the wage bill under control, it took 5 years for Nigel to get it to a respectable amount from the mess Jewell left us in. Mac took us to another level without Mel Morris money. Bamford, Thorne, Wisdom, Dawkins ETC all coming in on loan, without a major cash injection. We soon shot up the league once these players came in and settled. We loss in the final as everyone knows. But then Mel pops up and suddenly contracts are getting thrown around everywhere after a run of form. Sure we still got the odd gem on loan like Ibe and Ince but it was the start of the downfall the second we sacked Mac. WTF made Morris spend that amount under Paul Clement? I get Ince, but then Shackell, Bent, Johnson, Butterfield, Weimann, Blackman, Baird....? It just got so amateur and was turning into a game of Fifa. Now 4 years or more on, we are paying the price. Sell Hendrick, sell Ince, sell Hughes and now Vydra - the only reason for that is simple, FFP, from Mel's spending spree in the first place! How can you build a top side if you are selling the better players off, especially to a rival? I look at the current squad and it's nothing special bar the odd one or two like Davies and Carson - even those won't be worth much if we absolutely needed the money towards "balancing the books". I honestly don't get the love for Mel, he's spend money but it's done us no good whatsoever. He might message you in support of the forum and act like a lad and offer you a drink or what not. But that doesn't take away the fact he's done a terrible job of running a football club. What would it take for people to wake up and see we have gone backwards since 2014? Would an embargo do it? Crowds dropping to under 20k? Because selling you're better players is never a sight a club is moving forward. That's a nice history lesson but still doesn't really answer the question, do you want the wage bill lowered or are you looking for marquee signings, is promotion of any interest to you or would you be just as happy mid table under and comfortably treading water as I'm confused as to what you want from the club with your mixed posts. Even now you're talking of what would it take for us to "wake up", an embargo but then complaining about selling our better players. What is it you want from the club exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Papahet said: I honestly don't get the love for Mel, he's spend money but it's done us no good whatsoever. He might message you in support of the forum and act like a lad and offer you a drink or what not. But that doesn't take away the fact he's done a terrible job of running a football club. What has he done that is terrible? He backed the managers with money? Wow what an awful thing to do, how dare he put faith in his management team! Probably was a bit itchy on the trigger finger a few times, but ''terrible job of running a football club'' how? I want examples of what he has done that is terrible, and can be put on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, cheron85 said: The above sums up your lack of clarity - In two posts which are back to back you complain about having spent too much - And then you complain that if you don't spend you don't get good players Problem is, I ain't asking for 10-20 million to be spent in each window am I? Every time we do spend big, we have to sell a better player the following summer to stay within FFP. Why can't we use the loan market? Does that even exist here anymore? Ince, Lingard, Wisdom, Thorne, Bamford, Dawkins, Ibe, Omar.... It's barely been used since Morris took over; even when we do use it they are only bit part players brought in like Leon Best or Palmer. Why can't we attract the same calibre of player we did in 13/14? Really doesn't make sense. Guys like Mitrovic just get overlooked for another aging player coming in on a perm like Jerome and stuck here for 2 years or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Andicis said: What has he done that is terrible? He backed the managers with money? Wow what an awful thing to do, how dare he put faith in his management team! Probably was a bit itchy on the trigger finger a few times, but ''terrible job of running a football club'' how? I want examples of what he has done that is terrible, and can be put on him. 33 million wage bill Hiring and firing of managers The constant love he gave Clement "our next Fergie", only to give him the boot Giving Mac his wish of Martin being tied to the club, only to sack Mac without getting the chance to work with him again Appointing Wassall when we was in desperate need of a Warnock type of guy to get us over the line New contracts galore Sam Rush Bad press ie drones, dressing room bust ups... Giving Clement a "war chest" in his first job Ipro deal Ticket on demand pricing ditched - greedy sod Nothing to suggest his investment in the academy is actually paying off and will benefit the first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Papahet said: Problem is, I ain't asking for 10-20 million to be spent in each window am I? Aren't you? I have no idea what you're proposing - As you haven't suggested much 2 minutes ago, Papahet said: Why can't we use the loan market? Does that even exist here anymore? Ince, Lingard, Wisdom, Thorne, Bamford, Dawkins, Ibe, Omar.... We didn't have managers capable of attracting loan stars - Pearson was/is a crazy person, Rowett has zero pedigree at coaching - Plus whilst Clement had the links he was given money to spend When we did get quality loan players in (Palmer) the manager didn't want to use them - Rowett's attitude was all about players who wanted to be here, would run themselves into the floor for the club - Loan players don't always do that You can't blame Morris for the decision made by the manager 30 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Suggest a positive next step - What should we be doing next? How should we correct this? So what's the next step? The suggestion is Lampard is going to be using his connections to bring in loan players - We have a deputy who has the respect of a lot of British youth systems because of his coaching the last few years What else? If we can bring in Abraham on loan doesn't that offset losing Vydra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Papahet said: Problem is, I ain't asking for 10-20 million to be spent in each window am I? Every time we do spend big, we have to sell a better player the following summer to stay within FFP. Why can't we use the loan market? Does that even exist here anymore? Ince, Lingard, Wisdom, Thorne, Bamford, Dawkins, Ibe, Omar.... It's barely been used since Morris took over; even when we do use it they are only bit part players brought in like Leon Best or Palmer. Why can't we attract the same calibre of player we did in 13/14? Really doesn't make sense. Guys like Mitrovic just get overlooked for another aging player coming in on a perm like Jerome and stuck here for 2 years or more. You're getting yourself worked up over nothing. If Lampard wants to use the loan market, he will. If he doesn't, he won't. I don't think he is going to base his transfers on what Rowett or Pearson have or haven't done. It seems like you're trying to angle at Morris making the signings and the managers having absolutely no say. I also think you rate Vydra very highly, far more so than his worth. As mentioned by myself and others, his value stems from what teams are willing to pay. Leeds are seemingly the only club interested at £11m, which is surprising but then we have to weigh up whether we are better off keeping him for that money or not? It sounds like we don't need to sell for FFP based on what others have put, so it is at least a purely footballing decision. I would have hoped for more, but I believe the team has scope to improve more with the money than we do with him. We could of course spend that money on crap and go backwards, but Vydra could equally go back to struggling to hit double figures again - especially if he doesn't get the same amount of penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Papahet said: 33 million wage bill Hiring and firing of managers The constant love he gave Clement "our next Fergie", only to give him the boot Giving Mac his wish of Martin being tied to the club, only to sack Mac without getting the chance to work with him again Appointing Wassall when we was in desperate need of a Warnock type of guy to get us over the line New contracts galore Sam Rush Bad press ie drones, dressing room bust ups... Giving Clement a "war chest" in his first job Ipro deal Ticket on demand pricing ditched - greedy sod Nothing to suggest his investment in the academy is actually paying off and will benefit the first team That can be put on managers, pretty sure Mel has backed the managers with the players that they wanted. Which sackings do you disagree with? You don't know what happened behind the scenes, nor do I. Probably a mistake from him. How do you know a ''Warnock type guy'' was available? Are you just assuming? Did he not bring in Redknapp? Again, you complain about him wanting to get rid of players, yet when he awards them contracts you moan as well? Can't have it both ways. Just wow. You really are an expert in hindsight. You do know the press could be talking complete poo? Who cares what the press say? You'd complain if Clement didn't get money to spend. Go on then, what are the ins and outs of that deal, please tell me. (You've not got a clue) LOL. Once more, you've flip flopped. He spends too much on wages, yet he is a greedy sod? Get a grip. Mel doesn't run the academy. He invests in it with the idea it will be as successful as possible, how can that possibly be used as a criticism, to help push young players through? Mel isn't a bloody coach. How can you say him investing in a future for our club is a bad thing? In summary, your post has huge elements of contradictions, which make it sound like you want to blame Mel for literally anything and everything that has happened to our club, even though you should wake up to the fact that the majority of it isn't his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 We could always just not sell Vydra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, Andicis said: That can be put on managers, pretty sure Mel has backed the managers with the players that they wanted. Which sackings do you disagree with? You don't know what happened behind the scenes, nor do I. Probably a mistake from him. How do you know a ''Warnock type guy'' was available? Are you just assuming? Did he not bring in Redknapp? Again, you complain about him wanting to get rid of players, yet when he awards them contracts you moan as well? Can't have it both ways. Just wow. You really are an expert in hindsight. You do know the press could be talking complete poo? Who cares what the press say? You'd complain if Clement didn't get money to spend. Go on then, what are the ins and outs of that deal, please tell me. (You've not got a clue) LOL. Once more, you've flip flopped. He spends too much on wages, yet he is a greedy sod? Get a grip. Mel doesn't run the academy. He invests in it with the idea it will be as successful as possible, how can that possibly be used as a criticism, to help push young players through? Mel isn't a bloody coach. How can you say him investing in a future for our club is a bad thing? In summary, your post has huge elements of contradictions, which make it sound like you want to blame Mel for literally anything and everything that has happened to our club, even though you should wake up to the fact that the majority of it isn't his fault. Well 9/10 it is the guy who runs the club's fault ya' know. Or is it one of those "blame the fan" situations when things don't go to plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Papahet said: Well 9/10 it is the guy who runs the club's fault ya' know. Or is it one of those "blame the fan" situations when things don't go to plan? You know Mel doesn't micro manage everything to do with the club right? He employs staff members for that. Push all the blame on him if you want (that's nonsensical to do), it is to do with the club as a whole, pointing the finger at the owner, who probably has a lot of other things to do aside from running a football club isn't smart at all. I didn't blame the fans at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 duck me, this guy is the king of hindsight. Bore off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: duck me, this guy is the king of hindsight. Bore off. Is that todays favorite word on here? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34711334 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35528402 There's you hindsight mate. Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, Papahet said: Is that todays favorite word on here? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34711334 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35528402 There's you hindsight mate. Enjoy You need to get out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, Papahet said: Is that todays favorite word on here? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34711334 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35528402 There's you hindsight mate. Enjoy Do you actually know what it means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Back on topic, I’ve seen a couple of people say that Cardiff and Brighton are interested in Vydra, and Cardiff for 15 million. That would be the best solution all round but I can’t see why they’d be interested after signing Reid. Brighton have had an eye on Vydra for years and Hughton likes him a lot so that link, if true, doesn’t surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: You need to get out more. You need to realise ya' hero Georgi, retired over a decade ago and unfortunately in his time here was nothing more than a sulky overweight slob, picking up 30k a week - sounds abit like Chris Martin come to think of it. 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Do you actually know what it means? It? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Papahet said: You need to realise ya' hero Georgi, retired over a decade ago and unfortunately in his time here was nothing more than a sulky overweight slob, picking up 30k a week - sounds abit like Chris Martin come to think of it. It? Awwwwwwww.... You genuinely think you're amusing don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Andicis said: What has he done that is terrible? He backed the managers with money? Wow what an awful thing to do, how dare he put faith in his management team! Probably was a bit itchy on the trigger finger a few times, but ''terrible job of running a football club'' how? I want examples of what he has done that is terrible, and can be put on him. I don’t understand any of the FFP stuff or the accounts but I’m fairly confident on 2 points. Firstly that Mel has not made any money out of Derby County and is probably significantly worse off. Secondly,am I correct in thinking he doesn’t charge any interest to the club for the money he has loaned us? If that’s the case that’s a rarity in this day and age...ask the West Ham fans. I could be wrong but I think the clubs ethics are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, McLovin said: Back on topic, I’ve seen a couple of people say that Cardiff and Brighton are interested in Vydra, and Cardiff for 15 million. That would be the best solution all round but I can’t see why they’d be interested after signing Reid. Brighton have had an eye on Vydra for years and Hughton likes him a lot so that link, if true, doesn’t surprise me. One of the people was a woman incidentally and they know and find out everything don’t they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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