A 10 POINT PLAN, NOT A FINGER IN THE DAM

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

You did explain why today,86 points and it took a bit of doing in sure.

Having said that you basically told me I was a miserable ******* a few weeks ago for not believing in the rowett dream.

You owe me a pint in the East stand concourse of you want to fully make it up.

You are a miserable ******* though. Everyone says so when you go offline

 

[CWC1983]

@Alpha @86 points

Theres a question above about who could we go for if Gary was to walk? 

Ill be shot down for this, however

Chris Wilder, who's done some job at Sheff Utd this season, but he might not think Derby is a step up. 

Here we go..... Neil Lennon. It irks me to say it, but he's turned around an ailing Hibs side and they play very nice football. He's also got the whole support behind him and he's the sort of manager who youd love as your own but hate as the opposition. He's not as thick as he sounds ?. 

If we want someone to adopt the Derby way, then Micheal O Neill. He's already said he would only take a club job where he had total control, and he wants to build a club from grassroots to the 1st team. He's not interested in quick fixes, but wants to lay the foundations for years to come. Do managers get that time in the championship though? 

If he and Mel were upfront on the plans for the future it might buy him some time. 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

You are a miserable ******* though. Everyone says so when you go offline

 

Yeah,but I'm our miserable *******...

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

You did explain why today,86 points and it took a bit of doing in sure,well done.

Having said that you basically told me I was a miserable ******* a few weeks ago for not believing in the rowett dream.

You owe me a pint in the East stand concourse of you want to fully make it up.

LOL - True story. You were being a miserable git but yes I do obviously owe you a pint  

I've said my piece today in any case. I suspect I'll be taking a long break from the forum as I'd be loathed to be posting too much negative stuff and it's now going to be hard to find much positive to say tbh. Perhaps the team will shock us over the last few games but it's quite hard to see. I think we'll pretty much know our fate this time next week. Heyho. Next season we go again!

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 minutes ago, 86 points said:

LOL - True story. You were being a miserable git but yes I do obviously owe you a pint  

I've said my piece today in any case. I suspect I'll be taking a long break from the forum as I'd be loathed to be posting too much negative stuff and it's now going to be hard to find much positive to say tbh. Perhaps the team will shock us over the last few games but it's quite hard to see. I think we'll pretty much know our fate this time next week. Heyho. Next season we go again!

 

I tried that myself...didn't last too long.

I'm kind of assuming a regime change in one way or another will be in the offing,in which case we can all reset (briefly) and be positive together (as I recall you and I were pre rowett)....after all i used to be regarded as a happy clapper.

You never know,good times,or at least better ones, may be ahead.

[Comrade 86]

9 minutes ago, Alpha said:

You are a miserable ******* though. Everyone says so when you go offline

 

It's usually just you Alpha 

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, 86 points said:

There’s plenty of us on here stating what’s wrong and given recent performances it’s not hard to understand why. With that in mind I thought it’d be interesting to see what measures folk folks think need to be put in place to turn things around – a 10-point plan if you like. You can make a single suggestion or a full 10 point plan, it’s up to you just try and be positive and offer fixes not just criticism please!

To get things started here’s my list:

1] Rowett has to go – this will sound highly hypocritical coming from me but my loyalty is first and foremost to the club and today’s post-match interview was the end of it for me. I'll leave it there!

2] Hire a manager whose footballing ethos and style is in keeping with ‘the Derby Way’ – it’s become a rather hackneyed phrase but to me it means attacking, possession-based football. Ball to feet, pass and move. Yes. we need a solid defence but a team that looks to outscore the opposition will always be favoured by Derby fans over and above a team that tries to throttle the opposition and then hit them on the break. In no particular order, Silva, Simmo, Dean Smith, Wassall, even Lee Johnson might all be considered as well as any talented young foreign coaches, the latter being dependent on us having an experienced English DOF in place. however.

3] Bring said manager’s scouting team with him and fire the current set-up, Ince's wife first – teams like Brentford and Bristol seem to have a happy knack of recruiting quality players that match the way they play and doing so early in their careers. This they accomplish without breaking the bank. If a manager’s coaches and scouts are deemed integral to his success, then we should move heaven and earth to bring them with him.

4] Recruit a DoF to oversee points 1 to 3 – sorry Mel, you’ve had a few tries now and it’s time to bring a footballing pro in to handle the transition away from a ‘business model’ that has patently failed to deliver.

5] Immediately begin to incorporate some of our U23 players. How on earth do we expect the likes of Elsnik, Thomas, Guy and co to improve or show their worth while they sit on a bench or worse still, are farmed out to clubs who know they will not be able to hang on to them and have no interest therefore, in their long-term futures? WHo knows, their attitude might even spark some of the more experienced squad players.

6] Terminate contracts for any players deemed negative influences and look to move on others who do not meet the new team criteria in terms of age, playing style or any other regard, for that matter. Outsiders should know who we are and what we expect of any individual connected to the club BEFORE they arrive. Yes, this will hurt us in FFP terms but so will retaining players with no real interest in the club’s future nor pride in their own performances. Such individuals are rotten apples and need flushing before they sour the entire barrel.

7] Curtail all cheese-laden PR activities such as the ridiculous Mastermind series – the players are at the club to play football. If they are not entertaining the fans on the pitch then watching them make tits of themselves elsewhere as well is hardly going to be viewed in a positive light. Back to ****** basics please! If the club is looking to try and create a bond with the fans then suggest to the players that they roll their ******* sleeves up as this will win over fans quicker than any PR BS one could dream up.

8] Ban the foul-mouthed and overly aggressive fans from attending fixtures – if they want to hurl abuse at the team they can do at away games and from amongst the opposition fans. Their season ticket money is simply not worth the grief. As much as a lack of unity within the club has damaged our prospects, so will any bilious invective from certain so-called fans. Let’s ensure that kids and women are not intimidated and put off by such behaviour please!

9] Replace any current foreign scouts with immediate effect – if they even exist, they’ve brought little or nothing to the club for over a decade and are not worth their fees, whatever they may be.

10] Reduce ticket prices to almost giveaway levels for younger fans for fixtures where we are unlikely to have packed stands. I’d rather we gave the tickets away than see chunks of empty seats. Let’s get PP rocking in the style of the old Baseball Ground.

Over to you guys and let’s keep it civil please 

1 - We have more points than last season and have made a profit in the transfer market - Rowett does not have to go...but he does have to improve.

2 The Derby Way is cobblers. OBE's team were happy to grind out 1 - nils. That idiotic term only surfaced when McClaren was trying to justify fining his players for swearing. 

3 Brentford and Bristol have finished behind Derby County for several decades

4 We recruited a DoF in Chris Evans and we're still paying for it. That was Mel's single most disastrous decision. The manger needs the final say on recruitment.

5 None of our U23s are actually very good. If we play substandard players we're likely to get relegated.

6 Terminating contracts will completely end our ability to buy new players. That's just Football Manager logic. In the real world we need to use agents to move them on.

7 DCFC has the best off-field commercial activity profile of any club in the Football League. The club has been spectacularly successful at gaining fans and converting that into commercial revenue. That is why we are about the 14th biggest club in the country, despite being a small, provincial city.

8 Needs careful judgement not to take away even more passion, but I agree with the principle.

9 We don't have foreign scouts, just a subscription to the pro-version of Football Manager. Personally, I would have a permanent presence in Croatia and Cost Rica  

10 Agree, but we basically need some success to impress the kids attending on cheap tickets, Reducing the price will get more bums on seats, but if we don't impress the kids on those seats, they'll never come back. 

My own view is that we should massively scale back the academy - it is an unnecessary drain and it is not producing. The best kids will always sign for clubs in the PL. We should give Rowett the summer and review in November. We should tar and feather anyone who suggests employing a DoF as they have a 100% failure record in the Championship. If Rowett fails we should employ Colin to get us up, Big Sam to keep us up and a David Wagner to develop us as a Premier League top ten side.

 

[Alph]

33 minutes ago, CWC1983 said:

@Alpha @86 points

Theres a question above about who could we go for if Gary was to walk? 

Ill be shot down for this, however

Chris Wilder, who's done some job at Sheff Utd this season, but he might not think Derby is a step up. 

Here we go..... Neil Lennon. It irks me to say it, but he's turned around an ailing Hibs side and they play very nice football. He's also got the whole support behind him and he's the sort of manager who youd love as your own but hate as the opposition. He's not as thick as he sounds ?. 

If we want someone to adopt the Derby way, then Micheal O Neill. He's already said he would only take a club job where he had total control, and he wants to build a club from grassroots to the 1st team. He's not interested in quick fixes, but wants to lay the foundations for years to come. Do managers get that time in the championship though? 

If he and Mel were upfront on the plans for the future it might buy him some time. 

 

I don't know much about Wilder and what he's done at Sheff Utd but the play some good stuff don't they.

I just can't forget Bolton with Lennon. 

But I never know what's gone on beyond the results. If Mel sacks Rowett you know the entire outside world will only see a Play Off challenger having a blip and Mel panicking again. They won't see past that. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I don't know much about Wilder and what he's done at Sheff Utd but the play some good stuff don't they.

I just can't forget Bolton with Lennon. 

But I never know what's gone on beyond the results. If Mel sacks Rowett you know the entire outside world will only see a Play Off challenger having a blip and Mel panicking again. They won't see past that. 

Do we care?

Getting the right man in and planning a future is what counts.

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

1 - We have more points than last season and have made a profit in the transfer market - Rowett does not have to go...but he does have to improve.

2 The Derby Way is cobblers. OBE's team were happy to grind out 1 - nils. That idiotic term only surfaced when McClaren was trying to justify fining his players for swearing. 

3 Brentford and Bristol have finished behind Derby County for several decades

4 We recruited a DoF in Chris Evans and we're still paying for it. That was Mel's single most disastrous decision. The manger needs the final say on recruitment.

5 None of our U23s are actually very good. If we play substandard players we're likely to get relegated.

6 Terminating contracts will completely end our ability to buy new players. That's just Football Manager logic. In the real world we need to use agents to move them on.

7 DCFC has the best off-field commercial activity profile of any club in the Football League. The club has been spectacularly successful at gaining fans and converting that into commercial revenue. That is why we are about the 14th biggest club in the country, despite being a small, provincial city.

8 Needs careful judgement not to take away even more passion, but I agree with the principle.

9 We don't have foreign scouts, just a subscription to the pro-version of Football Manager. Personally, I would have a permanent presence in Croatia and Cost Rica  

10 Agree, but we basically need some success to impress the kids attending on cheap tickets, Reducing the price will get more bums on seats, but if we don't impress the kids on those seats, they'll never come back. 

My own view is that we should massively scale back the academy - it is an unnecessary drain and it is not producing. The best kids will always sign for clubs in the PL. We should give Rowett the summer and review in November. We should tar and feather anyone who suggests employing a DoF as they have a 100% failure record in the Championship. If Rowett fails we should employ Colin to get us up, Big Sam to keep us up and a David Wagner to develop us as a Premier League top ten side.

 

A valid counter argument and two or three weeks ago I'd have made some of the same points myself. Today, however, not so much. The camel's back has been broken, I'm afraid. And please, no 'is it cos you've got the hump' jokes!

1 So we're comparing one relatively unsuccessful season with (potentially) another one, barring some miracle? We need to be striving for more though before today I would certainly have advocated giving Rowett more time.

2 Totally disagree - what's idiotic is the weight applied to it but the essence is the style of football we play and that matters plenty

3 Forever in fact but it's the style of play not the points I'm referring to and your post assumes that our managers would be as close to us had they managed at these 'lesser' clubs. Their scouting operations are also streets ahead of our own IMO

4 Just because Evans failed doesn't mean that someone else would do too - was Evans really allowed to do his job anyway? We wouldn't run the club without a manager because Paerson failed, would we?

5 I don't agree but hey, what do I know?

6 I'd have thought we have been trying to use agents to move them on already! It hasn't worked.

7 Derby has mostly had a loyal fanbase prior to Mel arriving. I don't dispute the off the field success nor am I looking to criticise Mel unduly but if the players are struggling to complete a 5 yard pass then I'd rather they did some extra training than Mastermind. As for commercial success through PR and the like, I'd politely suggest that the best way to get bums on seats is to entertain the fans on the pitch, not off it. 

8 Agreed

9 That explains a lot!

10 I agree but would also counter that the kids may not be so hard to please as some of the 'adults' who attend games. 

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, 86 points said:

I know and if you look at the match thread I've stated exactly that and explained why. By way of further explanation, I've never taken issue with the constructive criticism, it's the 'he's ****, he's a ******* type BS I can't abide along with the incessant sniping with no suggestions being offered. Hence this thread!

What you've and quite a few others have failed to understand along the way is that I have agreed with a lot of the criticism all along I've just chosen not to voice those opinions. I think that goes for numerous other so-called Rowett fanboys and happy-clappers on this forum too. In fact, I'm certain of it. My post also highlighted the primary reason for me being in the retain camp as being stability but it became crushingly obvious to me today that there is none and I'm fighting for something that doesn't even exist. I'm not slagging off Gary in any case, and I never would, what I'm saying is that today I lost the faith and I've tried my best to explain why.

It was tongue in cheek mate. For everyone there comes a moment when you go from having hope to having lost faith.

And its not really a very nice place to be.

 

[Derby blood]

This is the Derby way, I am afraid, Brian Clough wins the league, sack him, he goes on to win the biggest trophy twice and another league title, and many league cups with Forest, Macay wins the league sack him, Jimbo Smith sack him, and get in the worse managers you could dream of at the time, George Burley playing great football, finishing 5 th, sack him, Nigel Clough building a team of young quality players the **** Sam Rush Sacked him as well , the story goes on, we are a club who loves Getting it wrong, but it is OUR club and we love it, Please let's get it right before I am 6 foot under. Once a Ram always a RAM.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, RamNut said:

It was tongue in cheek mate. For everyone there comes a moment when you go from having hope to having lost faith.

And its not really a very nice place to be.

 

LOL - I did kind of get that but you're right in any case and only fair I should be held to account. I've called enough folk out this season so I should hardly be immune myself. If I'm honest, I'm still slightly in 2 minds as to whether my thinking is rational or purely emotive. Watching the game today was like being repeatedly punched in the belly though and that interview! Fortunately I've a decent single malt smoothing off the edges now and my pulse has returned to something akin to normal!