Financial Matters

[G STAR RAM]

Sorry, know many of you will find this boring and just want to discuss football now we are doing well!

I know there's a guy on here (other than Ramblur) who takes an interest but I can't remember his name!

Anyway found a couple of documents on internet:-

1 - Would seem to indicate a £52m investment on 30/06/2016 by MM. No detail on whether this was a write off of loans, cash injection or a mixture.

2 - Charge over the land next to West Stand has been released.

Wondered if anyone recalls seeing anything about either of these events?

[Cam the Ram]

Wonder if that investment had anything to do with the training ground extension? Wasn't it around that time that the appeal had been accepted and they gave the go ahead for it?

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Wonder if that investment had anything to do with the training ground extension? Wasn't it around that time that the appeal had been accepted and they gave the go ahead for it?

Has that gone ahead?

Whatever it is for, shows major financial commitment. 

[DEL]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Has that gone ahead?

Whatever it is for, shows major financial commitment. 

Pretty sure that gone ahead. 

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Has that gone ahead?

Whatever it is for, shows major financial commitment. 

I think it got rejected early in 2016, then the appeal was successful later in the year. Just had a quick search and it seems that it was given the go ahead in August, a couple of months after that investment you mentioned. 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Cam the Ram said:

I think it got rejected early in 2016, then the appeal was successful later in the year. Just had a quick search and it seems that it was given the go ahead in August, a couple of months after that investment you mentioned. 

Investment would have been made on 30th June as that is the company financial year end.

Got a feeling a huge chunk would have been to cover FFP losses.

[ollycutts1982]

Can just imagine Mel at the appeal hearing, *whilst handing over a brown envelope stuffed with £50's* 'Are you sure you wont give it the go ahead?'

[Herdwick Ram]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry, know many of you will find this boring and just want to discuss football now we are doing well!

I know there's a guy on here (other than Ramblur) who takes an interest but I can't remember his name!

Anyway found a couple of documents on internet:-

1 - Would seem to indicate a £52m investment on 30/06/2016 by MM. No detail on whether this was a write off of loans, cash injection or a mixture.

2 - Charge over the land next to West Stand has been released.

Wondered if anyone recalls seeing anything about either of these events?

Thanks for that. Just wondering if it might be anything to do with the cancellation of the preferential shares earlier in the year - didn't Gellaw 101 still own them, and wasn't there a big premium involved ?

Perhaps it's just MM getting everything tidy for the 2016 accounts ? 

 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Herdwick Ram said:

Thanks for that. Just wondering if it might be anything to do with the cancellation of the preferential shares earlier in the year - didn't Gellaw 101 still own them, and wasn't there a big premium involved ?

Perhaps it's just MM getting everything tidy for the 2016 accounts ? 

 

Not looked at things for quite a while but I thought they were cancelled last year (may be wrong)

If I remember correctly, external debt at June 2015 was £12m so if MM has had to put £52m in that does not look good...

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry, know many of you will find this boring and just want to discuss football now we are doing well!

I know there's a guy on here (other than Ramblur) who takes an interest but I can't remember his name!

Anyway found a couple of documents on internet:-

1 - Would seem to indicate a £52m investment on 30/06/2016 by MM. No detail on whether this was a write off of loans, cash injection or a mixture.

2 - Charge over the land next to West Stand has been released.

Wondered if anyone recalls seeing anything about either of these events?

I quite enjoy this stuff, but I don't really know enough about the corporate structure of DCFC to offer great shafts of insight. I can ask a couple of generic questions though which might help clarify whats going on.

- are you looking at the top level (holding company) accounts or a subsidiary? sometimes groups tidy up consolidated balance sheets which can result in some odd looking entries in the individual accounts that all net off.

- is the £52m appearing as a note to the accounts? You should be able to see it appear in the year on year balance sheets, or even better if a "Source and Application of Funds" has been produced. Basically, if MM has loaned the money then cash should increase by 52m (before it is used to pay things) and the debtors increase by 52m. If hes injected it as equity then again the cash will increase but on the other side of the balance sheet, there should be an increase in a combination of the issued equity and/or share premium account so that everything still balances and is true and fair.

 

ps - think it was @CornwallRam who showed an interest in the finances?

[Alph]

Does anyone, anywhere know anything about Ramblur? 

Hope he's plodding on

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

I quite enjoy this stuff, but I don't really know enough about the corporate structure of DCFC to offer great shafts of insight. I can ask a couple of generic questions though which might help clarify whats going on.

- are you looking at the top level (holding company) accounts or a subsidiary? sometimes groups tidy up consolidated balance sheets which can result in some odd looking entries in the individual accounts that all net off.

- is the £52m appearing as a note to the accounts? You should be able to see it appear in the year on year balance sheets, or even better if a "Source and Application of Funds" has been produced. Basically, if MM has loaned the money then cash should increase by 52m (before it is used to pay things) and the debtors increase by 52m. If hes injected it as equity then again the cash will increase but on the other side of the balance sheet, there should be an increase in a combination of the issued equity and/or share premium account so that everything still balances and is true and fair.

 

ps - think it was @CornwallRam who showed an interest in the finances?

I am actually an accountant but just haven't got the time to unravel it all at the moment!

I was just looking to see if June 2016 accounts had been filed yet when I noticed an allotment of shares form had been filed. 520,000 shares at £100 per share.

Consequent confirmation statement shows Sevco owns all shares.

So investment has come from holding company in which MM held all shares at August 2016...in other words investment has come from MM.

With only £12m owed to parent co at June 2015 that means, for some reason or other, another £40m was invested into the club..

...if my initial interpretation is right!

Just having a quick look at 2015 accounts and noticed "after considerable deliberation the board elected to terminate the contract of Steve McClaren" just for those of you out there who claim he "walked out on us".

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Does anyone, anywhere know anything about Ramblur? 

Hope he's plodding on

Not posted since April.

Used to message him from time to time off the forum to make sure we were not boring everyone on here!

[G STAR RAM]

This £52m investment is also on top of £22m in September 2015

[Gritstone Ram]

25 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Does anyone, anywhere know anything about Ramblur? 

Hope he's plodding on

His last post was something about remember me for this. Then went on to explain what GSE and the previous regime did to get the club finances back in a good shape. All double Dutch to me but if he was happy so was I. 

We've never heard from him since. I hope he's ok.

[Rev]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

This £52m investment is also on top of £22m in September 2015

Could these investments be in any way related to Mels purchase of the club?

Forgive what's a stupid question in all likelihood.

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, reveldevil said:

Could these investments be in any way related to Mels purchase of the club?

Forgive what's a stupid question in all likelihood.

No, that money would have been paid to the Americans to purchase their shares and this was done in September 2015.

The new shares were issued June 2016 and are an equity investment of some sort into Derby County Football Club Limited, be it by reduction of debt or cash injection.

[Van der MoodHoover]

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, that money would have been paid to the Americans to purchase their shares and this was done in September 2015.

The new shares were issued June 2016 and are an equity investment of some sort into Derby County Football Club Limited, be it by reduction of debt or cash injection.

The fact that it's straight equity is quite unusual and reassuring for dcfc. Compare to forest where fawaz injects money by way of loans.

Basically greatly reduces the chance of dcfc going insolvent and suggests Mel is more interested in building a legacy than getting his money back.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I am actually an accountant but just haven't got the time to unravel it all at the moment!

I was just looking to see if June 2016 accounts had been filed yet when I noticed an allotment of shares form had been filed. 520,000 shares at £100 per share.

Consequent confirmation statement shows Sevco owns all shares.

So investment has come from holding company in which MM held all shares at August 2016...in other words investment has come from MM.

With only £12m owed to parent co at June 2015 that means, for some reason or other, another £40m was invested into the club..

...if my initial interpretation is right!

Just having a quick look at 2015 accounts and noticed "after considerable deliberation the board elected to terminate the contract of Steve McClaren" just for those of you out there who claim he "walked out on us".

Apologies - I didn't intend to patronise. I'm an actuary, part of which is trying to interpret accounts in order to decide whether to invest in something. Bur I'm not an expert in accounting rules. 

[Rev]

33 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, that money would have been paid to the Americans to purchase their shares and this was done in September 2015.

The new shares were issued June 2016 and are an equity investment of some sort into Derby County Football Club Limited, be it by reduction of debt or cash injection.

So it isn't possible the club paid GSE, and Mel repaid the club?

Sorry to sound dense!