Forward: do we need one to hold the ball up? or is it a myth?

[Mostyn6]

Read to the point of boredom than we don't have a striker that can hold the ball up. 

My personal view is that we don't need one. I'd rather a creative midfielder hold the ball up whilst a striker gets in a good position, before the midfielder released the ball into a one-touch scoring position, where said striker slots the ball home from a goal-facing position.

Am I being too simplistic? We have too many multi-purpose players right now being judged on their supposed secondary set of skills, I'd be happy to have someone just excellent at their primary objective.

[cannable]

We either need a proper #10 or a hold up striker. I think a hold-up striker suits the way we will want to play long term but a #10 could possibly get the best out of what we've got at the minute. 

[Robbie Ram]

1 minute ago, cannable said:

We either need a proper #10 or a hold up striker. I think a hold-up striker suits the way we will want to play long term but a #10 could possibly get the best out of what we've got at the minute. 

CM BACK IN January then?

[Seth's left foot]

With SM now back at the helm it makes perfect sense to me that the club try and get CM back... if he wants to of course!

You have to remember how we played last time SM was in charge, CM was pivotal to how we played and I believe he would again flourish with support from Bryson, Vydra and Ince.

Forget trying to get Bucko back, we now have Pearce who I like the look of. Just a shame that Thorne and Fozzy aren't fit otherwise that team would be better than the SM mark I side.

[Robbie Ram]

4 minutes ago, Seth's left foot said:

With SM now back at the helm it makes perfect sense to me that the club try and get CM back... if he wants to of course!

You have to remember how we played last time SM was in charge, CM was pivotal to how we played and I believe he would again flourish with support from Bryson, Vydra and Ince.

Forget trying to get Bucko back, we now have Pearce who I like the look of. Just a shame that Thorne and Fozzy aren't fit otherwise that team would be better than the SM mark I side.

Pearce not a patch on Bucko as a leader. And no Ram is he.

[Angry Ram]

7 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said:

CM BACK IN January then?

Bloody hope not... How many backward steps can we take.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, Angry Ram said:

Bloody hope not... How many backward steps can we take.

Yeah… because £23,000,000 net spend, Clement and Pearson have taken us so far forward!

[Robbie Ram]

4 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Bloody hope not... How many backward steps can we take.

Let's wait and see mate.

[Angry Ram]

6 minutes ago, cannable said:

Yeah… because £23,000,000 net spend, Clement and Pearson have taken us so far forward!

So is going back the answer?? There are plenty who may have spent £23m better than we did. 

Chris Martin comes back, everything is fine, we play the ball into his feet and Bryson gets beyond him.. 

Seriously if Martin comes back, I will seriously consider my 300 mile round trip for home games and god knows how many for away games. Thanks god supporters don't run this club and my only hope is that we have learned from the past, both on and off the pitch.

[Norman]

It's a load of absolute ******* ********.

I watch any game of football. Last night I watched Arsenal for about the 10th time this season (that might or might not be an exaggeration). They play with 4 at the back, Coquelin at CDM with Cazorla in the middle, Ozil slightly (ok, quite a bit) more advanced them him, with the Ox and Walcott out wide.

And who was playing up front on his own. Some little Chilean midget that never stopped running, turning, dropping deep, running in behind and pulling his shorts up to unveil some rather impressive thigh muscles. Not to mention is testosterone fueled chin line and his wonderful pecs, but i digress,

He's 4'10, playing with 2 people who can run faster than i can sneeze but have no footballing ability at times. But he can do it. Sound familiar.

But, no, i think Giroud the 2 legged donkey might be better up there on his own. What with his good looks, that nicely coiffured beard, his accent that makes my knees tremble and his hold up play. The last one being a joke.

My point is, whilst Sanchez is a brilliant player, i think he shows what a vertically challenged player can do when up front on his own. Can we play like Arsenal? No.

So my point being, can a ***** Sanchez play in a ***** league and do roughly the same things? I think so.

You might disagree. I don't care. But i will write back to you and tell you you're wrong. Not because i care or want to be right all the time. I just will.

But i'm driving for the next hour or so, so don't expect an instant reply to your rubbish observations that contradict my well thought out points. It looks needy.

[Angry Ram]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's a load of absolute ******* ********.

I watch any game of football. Last night I watched Arsenal for about the 10th time this season (that might or might not be an exaggeration). They play with 4 at the back, Coquelin at CDM with Cazorla in the middle, Ozil slightly (ok, quite a bit) more advanced them him, with the Ox and Walcott out wide.

And who was playing up front on his own. Some little Chilean midget that never stopped running, turning, dropping deep, running in behind and pulling his shorts up to unveil some rather impressive thigh muscles. Not to mention is testosterone fueled chin line and his wonderful pecs, but i digress,

He's 4'10, playing with 2 people who can run faster than i can sneeze but have no footballing ability at times. But he can do it. Sound familiar.

But, no, i think Giroud the 2 legged donkey might be better up there on his own. What with his good looks, that nicely coiffured beard, his accent that makes my knees tremble and his hold up play. The last one being a joke.

My point is, whilst Sanchez is a brilliant player, i think he shows what a vertically challenged player can do when up front on his own. Can we play like Arsenal? No.

So my point being, can a ***** Sanchez play in a ***** league and do roughly the same things? I think so.

You might disagree. I don't care. But i will write back to you and tell you you're wrong. Not because i care or want to be right all the time. I just will.

But i'm driving for the next hour or so, so don't expect an instant reply to your rubbish observations that contradict my well thought out points. It looks needy.

Might help if we knew who you were responding to Norm.. 

[Norman]

Just now, Angry Ram said:

Might help if we knew who you were responding to Norm.. 

To anyone who dares disagree with me.

[brady1993]

28 minutes ago, cannable said:

We either need a proper #10 or a hold up striker. I think a hold-up striker suits the way we will want to play long term but a #10 could possibly get the best out of what we've got at the minute. 

Here's the crucial thing people often miss. Under McClaren, Martin acted as both for us.

[Angry Ram]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

To anyone who dares disagree with me.

Stormin Norm.. I get it. I'm lovin your work 

[Robbie Ram]

1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

Here's the crucial thing people often miss. Under McClaren, Martin acted as both for us.

Agree, provided he scores 20 goals a season, as well as around the same number of assists.

So, welcome back Chrissy babe.

[brady1993]

6 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's a load of absolute ******* ********.

I watch any game of football. Last night I watched Arsenal for about the 10th time this season (that might or might not be an exaggeration). They play with 4 at the back, Coquelin at CDM with Cazorla in the middle, Ozil slightly (ok, quite a bit) more advanced them him, with the Ox and Walcott out wide.

And who was playing up front on his own. Some little Chilean midget that never stopped running, turning, dropping deep, running in behind and pulling his shorts up to unveil some rather impressive thigh muscles. Not to mention is testosterone fueled chin line and his wonderful pecs, but i digress,

He's 4'10, playing with 2 people who can run faster than i can sneeze but have no footballing ability at times. But he can do it. Sound familiar.

But, no, i think Giroud the 2 legged donkey might be better up there on his own. What with his good looks, that nicely coiffured beard, his accent that makes my knees tremble and his hold up play. The last one being a joke.

My point is, whilst Sanchez is a brilliant player, i think he shows what a vertically challenged player can do when up front on his own. Can we play like Arsenal? No.

So my point being, can a ***** Sanchez play in a ***** league and do roughly the same things? I think so.

You might disagree. I don't care. But i will write back to you and tell you you're wrong. Not because i care or want to be right all the time. I just will.

But i'm driving for the next hour or so, so don't expect an instant reply to your rubbish observations that contradict my well thought out points. It looks needy.

Your right the striker in our formation doesn't have to be this great battering ram of a striker but he needs to be able to come short when necessary and get involved in the midfield. Sanchez actually does this a lot at Arsenal and is linkup play is world class. He frequently has 60+ touches and looks to get himself readily involved in all aspects of the play in the final third. We currently don't have such a striker on the books, our strikers are solely interested in receiving the final pass and it's seriously hampering our attacking play because we don't have a platform to build our attack around.

[roosram]

What I find perplexing is that we have seen how good Vydra is in an explosive forward run at the opposition.  We have also seen how he is not so good as a lone striker/back to goal/hold the ball type of centre forward.  Surely Pearson knew this before he let CM go and replaced him with MV.  Vydra would benefit from someone who could 'set him up' to use his strengths.  The type of player to do that is CM.  Poor management from Pearson, particularly as he, allegedly, had decided to go 433.  Stable doors and bolting horses!

 

[brady1993]

42 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Read to the point of boredom than we don't have a striker that can hold the ball up. 

My personal view is that we don't need one. I'd rather a creative midfielder hold the ball up whilst a striker gets in a good position, before the midfielder released the ball into a one-touch scoring position, where said striker slots the ball home from a goal-facing position.

Am I being too simplistic? We have too many multi-purpose players right now being judged on their supposed secondary set of skills, I'd be happy to have someone just excellent at their primary objective.

It isn't so much about hold-up play, is more about link-up play and getting involved with the midfield

It's a matter of how we want to play. If we want to play the same high intensity passing game (like under McClaren) where we keep opponents pegged back whilst we work the ball to carve out an opportunity, we need every player to getting involved with the build-up play so that the defence can be worked out of position. Your main centre forward needs to be able to drop short and play football with the attacking midfielders/inside forwards. We currently don't have a player who has shown capability in this regard and it's stifling our attack. 

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, roosram said:

What I find perplexing is that we have seen how good Vydra is in an explosive forward run at the opposition.  We have also seen how he is not so good as a lone striker/back to goal/hold the ball type of centre forward.  Surely Pearson knew this before he let CM go and replaced him with MV.  Vydra would benefit from someone who could 'set him up' to use his strengths.  The type of player to do that is CM.  Poor management from Pearson, particularly as he, allegedly, had decided to go 433.  Stable doors and bolting horses!

 

One of many perplexing decisions by our former incable incumbent.

[jono]

45 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Read to the point of boredom than we don't have a striker that can hold the ball up. 

My personal view is that we don't need one. I'd rather a creative midfielder hold the ball up whilst a striker gets in a good position, before the midfielder released the ball into a one-touch scoring position, where said striker slots the ball home from a goal-facing position.

Am I being too simplistic? We have too many multi-purpose players right now being judged on their supposed secondary set of skills, I'd be happy to have someone just excellent at their primary objective.

So happy to see that post Mostyn, I agree .... A striker being able to hold the ball is a secondary skill in my book. Strikers need to score or get in scoring positions via their own ball skills or a pass from midfield / team mate.

we haven't had a midfield that is both dominant AND creative for quite a while. Funnily enough I think we have the mix of players if fit to do it but it is the midfield that for me is our weakness. This was even more evident under Pearson. Chris Martin wouldn't change that. He'd be a sticking plaster.