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Safe Standing


Howard Canitbé
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/oct/09/safe-standing-hillsborough-rail-seating-bundesliga-celtic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

A very well written piece by Daniel Taylor regarding the possible return of standing, the developments at Celtic Park and discussing changing attitudes of those most opposed to a return to any kind of standing, families who lost loved ones at Hillsborough.

I realise that pretty much every angle of this debate will have been discussed on here in the past, but I enjoyed reading this article and thought it would provide a welcome change from the current debate raging on in the Rams Talk forum. 

My opinion is that, if anything, opposition from the highest echelons of the game and the government to safe standing perpetuates the false myth that standing fans had any bearing on the Hilsborough disaster. Overcrowding and poor policing was the issue, not standing itself. This well-worded quote from Lou Brookes in the aforementioned article sums it up excellently, in my opinion: “I know my brother would have hated sitting. Standing didn’t kill my brother but other factors did.”. 

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I think the "issues" west ham have had in the new ground also brought into focus, that in true British fashion, a workable fudge had been worked out where some areas in some grounds people were left to stand in front of their seat without it causing any issues. From this point of view, formalising it with the rail seats doesn't seem such a huge leap to me.

Over the years everything else has improved, ticketing, policing, accepted behaviour, crowd management, entrances, exits.

I wasn't going to football in the 80s, i've no idea what it was, but letting people have a ticketed "spot" to stand in instead of a seat to stand in front of does not appear to be the same as "lets bring back pens fenced in with barbed wire"

 

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Safe standing will bring back atmosphere. Everyone likeminded will be able to stand together and sing whilst those who don't wish to may decide to stay in the seats. Atmosphere at grounds in this country (from home fans) is non existent or only happens for  minutes after a goal is scored. Terrible .

 

Bring back safe standing.

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I like the idea of safe standing as I feel that it will be safer than the current standing in front of seats. I've seen a few fans topple over into the row in front when celebrating a goal at away matches and am a bit surprised that there aren't more reported injuries around this. 

I also agree it will encourage atmosphere from home fans, @Tony Le Mesmer, it's hard work singing and clapping in those tight seats at the iPro.

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31 minutes ago, angieram said:

I like the idea of safe standing as I feel that it will be safer than the current standing in front of seats. I've seen a few fans topple over into the row in front when celebrating a goal at away matches and am a bit surprised that there aren't more reported injuries around this. 

I also agree it will encourage atmosphere from home fans, @Tony Le Mesmer, it's hard work singing and clapping in those tight seats at the iPro.

:) It is indeed angie.

It's just easier to get into a sort of a lull when you're sat down at a game and automatically become a bit apathetic. I do it all the time. :( 

Standing just naturally facilitates vocal and gestural involvement IMO which is what is missing from most grounds in the UK.

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It is a misleading argument that led to standing at football matches being branded inherently dangerous. Seems clear this reason, rather than the obvious overcrowding at Hillsborough, was jumped on as part of the attempt to sanitise football going into the 1990s. There was clearly a concerted attempt to stop football violence (proposed fan ID cards, fencing, heavier police presence) during the 1980s & all seater stadiums were probably a convenient solution to this problem, rather than solving the underlying causes of Hillsborough. I doubt the FA/Government could have forced this solution onto club owners without the outpouring of grief & anger that such a disaster caused.

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6 hours ago, Tony Le Mesmer said:

Safe standing will bring back atmosphere. Everyone likeminded will be able to stand together and sing whilst those who don't wish to may decide to stay in the seats. Atmosphere at grounds in this country (from home fans) is non existent or only happens for  minutes after a goal is scored. Terrible .

 

Bring back safe standing.

I enjoy the South Stand atmosphere, though always room for improvement. It only goes quiet if we're losing and/or playing roobish. Usually Ossie & the boys get it rocking! Spoze it depends where you sit etc

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Curious to gauge opinion. This isn't going to happen anytime soon, I'm just interested to see responses.

How would you feel if the South Stand was made one price band across the whole thing and turned into general admission?

So your season ticket would get you in, but you didn't have a reserved seat or standing space.

On one hand, I know people like having a set space for every game, but on the other hand, surely it would allow people to gather together in areas that worked for them, allow people who sing all game to get closer together. 

Terraces always used to be general admission, and while I know rail seating gives you a specific place I just wonder how people feel about it now?

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4 minutes ago, The 1884 Group said:

Curious to gauge opinion. This isn't going to happen anytime soon, I'm just interested to see responses.

How would you feel if the South Stand was made one price band across the whole thing and turned into general admission?

So your season ticket would get you in, but you didn't have a reserved seat or standing space.

On one hand, I know people like having a set space for every game, but on the other hand, surely it would allow people to gather together in areas that worked for them, allow people who sing all game to get closer together. 

Terraces always used to be general admission, and while I know rail seating gives you a specific place I just wonder how people feel about it now?

it would have to be allocated a place/space/seat or everyone would crowd a single area, thus becoming unsafe.

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4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

it would have to be allocated a place/space/seat or everyone would crowd a single area, thus becoming unsafe.

Hannover-visit-1-004.jpeg

Agreed. If safe standing areas are ever given the go ahead they will look something like the above, rather that the old school terraces with the odd crush barrier chucked in as an afterthought.

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5 minutes ago, The 1884 Group said:

You would still have capacity for the stand which is controlled at the turnstiles, stewards would be there to steward.

Chaos at first, but would settle down when everyone found their weekly spot?

nah, too many idiots to 'self-manage'.

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4 minutes ago, The 1884 Group said:

Do you think people will stick to their allocated "standing space"?

I think the majority will if told to. BUT, by making it a free for all, you are opening this up to flashpoints and abuse.

I used to be a steward at the iPro, and let me tell you something for sure, give a few lads a few fizzy lagers and they think they're entitled to do whatever they want. Give them the chance to stand where they like, and THEN try and move them if the area is over-populated, and you're causing trouble. Fans enjoy thinking they're a victim and being picked on, other fans are sometimes intimidated and will inevitably be the ones forced to move.

Safe standing is about being able to stand up and sing, not about being able to crowd 50 people into a space made for 20.

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1 minute ago, The 1884 Group said:

I know, just thinking out loud about whether it's introduction would offer an opportunity to "reorganise" the South Stand a bit?

I don't understand. Who/Why/What "reorganise"?? IS it needed? Says who? Into what? What is your end goal?

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Sigh. I said I was thinking out loud not putting a bloody manifesto together.

There are people in there who aren't interested in singing and there for cheap tickets. There are some who want to sit not stand.A "reorganisation" would allow those wanting to sing and stand to gather together in a specific area, with those there for cheaper tickets to move together too.

My end goal would be to get people wanting to sing but don't in H Block for example, closer to those in D Block, if they wanted to be. Thereby increasing numbers, which increases volume, which increases consistency, which builds the atmosphere.

Not saying it IS needed, but I was interested to see if people thought it would be an attractive opportunity.

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