Dangerous Talk

[utisbug]

I've seen a lot of fans on this forum defending Pearson (which at this point, of course, is understandable) but also attacking certain players, and talking of how certain members of the squad should either "take a look at themselves" or "be sold on".

  Of course, there are players that are going to have to be sold, and those that deserve to be. This talk of tailoring a squad now to the preference of our new manager now and abandoning certain traits because Pearson "will get us there" is both naive and dangerous. Nigel Pearson's credentials as a manager capable of getting a team out of the Championship is not in doubt but Derby have built a particular playing ethos over the past few seasons and built a very competent squad to do so. In midfield in particular for a Championship club Derby County have an embarrassment of riches. If you think otherwise you are simply unaware of the standard most squads in this division have at their disposal. Mel Morris has been determined to solidify this particular possession style and has driven home the adoption of this culture through "The Derby Way" nonsense,  silly or not I as a fan completely agree with his intentions.

   Now we have Nigel Pearson at the helm. A man many would have been wary would dismantle this particular playing style before a ball had been kicked this season. We are 3 pretty disappointing games in and he hasn't started either Chris Martin or Will Hughes in either of the league games and fans on here are calling for players' heads? Claiming Derby all of a sudden need to take a look in the mirror? That all of a sudden we're a squad full of players that can't do it? I'm not saying Pearson should be judged yet. I'm saying the signs are worrying. I'm saying that this is exactly what many fans expected. Its exactly the type of manager Nigel Pearson is. Will Hughes doesn't get into a Championship side? Chris Martin isn't worth a start in the first 2 league games? No doubt Chris Martin was disappointing last season but his exclusion at this point is odd. Leaving Will Hughes out cannot be defended.

   Nigel Pearson doesn't play "The Derby Way" and I just hope nobody at the club has designs on changing the squad that has been built at the club to suit Pearson's style because it might get us up. It would be a mistake to abandon this style which being frank has been successful. No we haven't been promoted thus far but we now play a very good brand of football when its right. What we need is a manager to get the best out of that quite clearly very talented squad. Not one that wants a new one to fit "his" own style. 

[MrsRam]

Mel et al took him on 

8 minutes ago, utisbug said:

That all of a sudden we're a squad full of players that can't do it? I

All of a sudden? Three seasons. 

What style are abandoning? 

A good brand of footaball?

We hated Boro, for their football, that'd be the premiership team then, yeah?

You want to go up with pretty football? Don't hold your breath. 

[PodgeyRam]

3 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

Mel et al took him on 

All of a sudden? Three seasons. 

What style are abandoning? 

A good brand of footaball?

We hated Boro, for their football, that'd be the premiership team then, yeah?

You want to go up with pretty football? Don't hold your breath. 

Why can't we go up playing pretty football? Bournemouth did it, Watford did it, hell even Pearson's Leicester did it (not that I  trust him to do the same with this group of players).

The thing that links every single promoted team is that they play formations and styles that suit their players.

[thelovebelow]

Totally agree.  Top post.  It all seems a bit like Mel and Sam have pressed the panic button in a bid to get promoted.  

We needed tweaking, not overhauling. We had a fantastic brand of football, but maybe we just needed to get better at the 'ugly'  side like closing players down quicker. That's where Pearson can work his magic. 

It's not all about formations. It's about playing style. It's just certain formations lend themselves to a way of playing we are best suited at with the players at our disposal. 

Without being too dramatic, I think we've taken a dangerous and dark turn. I agree that Pearson is a good manager, but I am not sure he was the best choice for building on out current style.  

I'll support him and the team of course (without the silly and needless booing, which is not helpful at all)  but can't help feel it isn't going to end well.  I hope I am totally wrong.  

[MrsRam]

I don't like the person I've become tbh. But jesus, something needs to be done - from Clement last season, it's been pretty dire. I think we just need to swallow a bit of our lets play pretty football  and have a bit more of a fecking lets get it done mentality.

We all slagged Burnley off for their football but thre're in the prem this season.  What do we want?  We might have to sell our soul to the devil and play crap footie for a while.  I'm in. 

[MrsRam]

3 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

Why can't we go up playing pretty football? Bournemouth did it, Watford did it, hell even Pearson's Leicester did it (not that I  trust him to do the same with this group of players).

The thing that links every single promoted team is that they play formations and styles that suit their players.

why do you not trust him to do it with us?

[Cisse]

3 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

I don't like the person I've become tbh. But jesus, something needs to be done - from Clement last season, it's been pretty dire. I think we just need to swallow a bit of our lets play pretty football  and have a bit more of a fecking lets get it done mentality.

We all slagged Burnley off for their football but thre're in the prem this season.  What do we want?  We might have to sell our soul to the devil and play crap footie for a while.  I'm in. 

Glory hunter

[MrsRam]

Just now, Cisse said:

Glory hunter

I'll do what it takes. 

[PodgeyRam]

1 minute ago, MrsRam said:

why do you not trust him to do it with us?

Didn't say with us, said with this group of players. It would need a total overhaul of the squad for us play attractive football in the system Pearson is using at the moment. Personally I don't think a total overhaul is needed to get promoted.

[Ninos]

You're already suggesting a manager change essentially. I disagree and support the Pearson plan. If that Derby brand you speak of is the backward passing, defensive frailty and complete lack of creative attacking that I watched with clement and wassall I'll take my chances with Pearson. I don't care for Martin although I see his value with great midfielders around him in a 4-3-3 but Hughes is majestic in all aspects and was excellent when he came on v Brighton. His omission has been a little baffling although perhaps Hendrick is being shop windowed. But I'd still agree with np that we need to change the system: if the goal is getting out of the league then 4-3-3 has failed. Yet since our best players are midfielders perhaps we do need a midfield heavy formation.  And he seems to have decided to stick with the same players, the same players who now have a losing mentality from the previous seasons bottlings. Not all their fault they are short of confidence : Most never knew if they were going to start or not going to start. Again ... Squad size. His mistake: not engineering a quicker clean out of the non core players. Pearce Baird weimann Russell Blackman etc.  But he should let some go, bring in 1 or 2, infuse youth, stick with the core players he believes in and build some team spirit around them. And they need to perform to the maximum of their capability. Apart from Thorne and Carson few have.

I'd like to see Hanson Zanzala and Lowe as regulars because I think those u23 players are good and hungry, and confidence doesn't even faze them. But there's no room currently. 

[MrsRam]

Just now, PodgeyRam said:

Didn't say with us, said with this group of players. It would need a total overhaul of the squad for us play attractive football in the system Pearson is using at the moment. Personally I don't think a total overhaul is needed to get promoted.

I think we're getting a bit precious with the team tbh. All this Derby Fans are crap, we're quite a loyal bunch, that's our problem. 

[cannable]

15 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

I don't like the person I've become tbh. But jesus, something needs to be done - from Clement last season, it's been pretty dire. I think we just need to swallow a bit of our lets play pretty football  and have a bit more of a fecking lets get it done mentality.

We all slagged Burnley off for their football but thre're in the prem this season.  What do we want?  We might have to sell our soul to the devil and play crap footie for a while.  I'm in. 

That's a very short term view.

[MrsRam]

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

That's a very short term view.

So three seasons not quite doing it is ok with you?  You were ok walking home from the match after Reading? It was ok watching us beat Hull at theirs  after letting them score 3 against us ? 

How long do you want?

[MrsRam]

Short term - but even if Burnley get relegated - they've got some parachute payments, just like villa and newcastle have now. 

[Ninos]

9 minutes ago, cannable said:

That's a very short term view.

I think Mrs Ram is just making her point of priorities: that focusing on pretty as the objective is wrong.  The reality is that you can't get out of this division playing truly bad football. So It may not be mindless swashbuckling but it's promotion winning is the point. To get out of it comfortablly ala Bournemouth and Leicester and Swansea it will turn out to be a joy to watch: Ie attacking football. Brighton currently appear to have it, and they're no defensive chumps either.

[sage]

13 minutes ago, Ninos said:

You're already suggesting a manager change essentially. I disagree and support the Pearson plan. If that Derby brand you speak of is the backward passing, defensive frailty and complete lack of creative attacking that I watched with clement and wassall I'll take my chances with Pearson. I don't care for Martin although I see his value with great midfielders around him in a 4-3-3 but Hughes is majestic in all aspects and was excellent when he came on v Brighton. His omission has been a little baffling although perhaps Hendrick is being shop windowed. But I'd still agree with np that we need to change the system: if the goal is getting out of the league then 4-3-3 has failed. Yet since our best players are midfielders perhaps we do need a midfield heavy formation.  And he seems to have decided to stick with the same players, the same players who now have a losing mentality from the previous seasons bottlings. Not all their fault they are short of confidence : Most never knew if they were going to start or not going to start. Again ... Squad size. His mistake: not engineering a quicker clean out of the non core players. Pearce Baird weimann Russell Blackman etc.  But he should let some go, bring in 1 or 2, infuse youth, stick with the core players he believes in and build some team spirit around them. And they need to perform to the maximum of their capability. Apart from Thorne and Carson few have.

I'd like to see Hanson Zanzala and Lowe as regulars because I think those u23 players are good and hungry, and confidence doesn't even faze them. But there's no room currently. 

Are you suggesting these 3 youngsters should be in the team now on merit?

[utisbug]

 

[utisbug]

7 minutes ago, Ninos said:

I think Mrs Ram is just making her point of priorities: that focusing on pretty as the objective is wrong.  The reality is that you can't get out of this division playing truly bad football. So It may not be mindless swashbuckling but it's promotion winning is the point. To get out of it comfortablly ala Bournemouth and Leicester and Swansea it will turn out to be a joy to watch: Ie attacking football. Brighton currently appear to have it, and they're no defensive chumps either.

 

40 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

Mel et al took him on 

All of a sudden? Three seasons. 

What style are abandoning? 

A good brand of footaball?

We hated Boro, for their football, that'd be the premiership team then, yeah?

You want to go up with pretty football? Don't hold your breath. 

No, we haven't been promoted in the past 3 seasons...so you think the players we currently have aren't capable of that?

You don't feel that there are already signs Nigel Pearson is moving away from the possession based style the club have clearly adopted over the past 4 or so seasons?

You don't feel the style synonymous with Derby County over the last 3 seasons is a good brand of football?

No, I never hated Boro for their style of football, but I also don't wish to see us playing a different brand of football to the one those at the club have worked so hard to instil simply because it would get us up quicker. I'm telling you I'm a fan, and yes I don't want to see the club unravelling the positive "footballing" ethos they have implemented. 

Yes I want the club to go up playing football. If you don't understand the importance of adopting a culture that is bred through a club from top to bottom for long term success then you're a muppet.

 You're not a proper fan if what you're interested in is getting to the Premier League as quick as possible. I'm interested in seeing my club building. Building a bloody dynasty, pal. Im not interested in watching them go up then fly back down spending 50 million. Im interested in seeing the club build a proper future. I want to see massive mega success. I want to see the club in the Champion League one day. Why not? You're a mug if the ceiling of your ambitions for this club are to get to the Prem as quick as possible. If you're willing at such an early point in what may one day ultimately be considered the start of the clubs progression to loftier heights to throw it in just to "get there" then you need to go and watch X Factor, not Championship football because what you want my friend is instant gratification. That's not how footy works. Barcelona fans would have laughed in your face if you had told them the fate that awaited them before Cruyf and La Masia changed the entire culture of the club. Imagine how far they'd have got if they abandoned their plight after a couple of seasons and changed the style taught at the club for "quicker" success. You fool.

[cannable]

9 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

So three seasons not quite doing it is ok with you?  You were ok walking home from the match after Reading? It was ok watching us beat Hull at theirs  after letting them score 3 against us ? 

How long do you want?

I'm fine because I realise that only a combination of stupidity in the transfer market, injuries and bad management is the reason we've not been promoted, not because it doesn't work. 

Also worth noting that twisting will probably take longer that sticking… so if it is instant success you crave then I feel you're to be disappointed.

 

[utisbug]

43 minutes ago, MrsRam said:

Mel et al took him on 

All of a sudden? Three seasons. 

What style are abandoning? 

A good brand of footaball?

We hated Boro, for their football, that'd be the premiership team then, yeah?

You want to go up with pretty football? Don't hold your breath. 

No, we haven't been promoted in the past 3 seasons...so you think the players we currently have aren't capable of that?

You don't feel that there are already signs Nigel Pearson is moving away from the possession based style the club have clearly adopted over the past 4 or so seasons?

You don't feel the style synonymous with Derby County over the last 3 seasons is a good brand of football?

No, I never hated Boro for their style of football, but I also don't wish to see us playing a different brand of football to the one those at the club have worked so hard to instil simply because it would get us up quicker. I'm telling you I'm a fan, and yes I don't want to see the club unravelling the positive "footballing" ethos they have implemented. 

Yes I want the club to go up playing football. If you don't understand the importance of adopting a culture that is bred through a club from top to bottom for long term success then you're a muppet.

 You're not a proper fan if what you're interested in is getting to the Premier League as quick as possible. I'm interested in seeing my club building. Building a bloody dynasty, pal. Im not interested in watching them go up then fly back down spending 50 million. Im interested in seeing the club build a proper future. I want to see massive mega success. I want to see the club in the Champion League one day. Why not? You're a mug if the ceiling of your ambitions for this club are to get to the Prem as quick as possible. If you're willing at such an early point in what may one day ultimately be considered the start of the clubs progression to loftier heights to throw it in just to "get there" then you need to go and watch X Factor, not Championship football because what you want my friend is instant gratification. That's not how footy works. Barcelona fans would have laughed in your face if you had told them the fate that awaited them before Cruyf and La Masia changed the entire culture of the club. Imagine how far they'd have got if they abandoned their plight after a couple of seasons and changed the style taught at the club for "quicker" success. You fool.