cheron85 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Anag Ram said: Agree and I can't imagine a rough, tough former centre back like Pearson would have enjoyed watching Keogh being out-muscled. He's too light for a CH and is too easy to put on his backside. He has many positive qualities but his physicality isn't one of them. I know Shackell and Keogh like to play left and right but it does seem crazy that this often leaves Keogh marking the bigger man. I would be surprised if we didn't bring in a roughty toughty centre back this month. He is fairly lightweight for a CB... But then he's quicker than most CBs his height because of it... And still gave Glenn Murray (tall and strong) very little joy all game... And I think it's unfair only pointing out Keogh's failures and ignoring Shackell... 2/3 clearances straight to the opposition forwards, a hoofing great spoon of a clearance in the box which spun up into the air and landed 2 feet from where he was in the box still and a couple of half-hearted challenges when he'd mis-judged where the opposition player was going to be... Note to all: Defenders make mistakes... All defenders... Every one of them... They also all have relative strengths and weaknesses I personally think a big strong CB and a tall, quick CB together is a decent combination... 4 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: That's why Hanley would have been useful. Although not that skilful ( Huth and Morgan anybody?), he's a bit of a bully too, which is just what we need. And at only twenty four, he had also been Rovers captain for some time. We really do need both a dominant CB and a captain. I reckon NP missed a good catch there, as Hanley is also a similar type of CB to him in his playing days. So in today's inflated transfer market, I reckon he was well worth the five and a half million quid NUFC paid. Oh well....... A couple of my mates went to Fulham (2 NU fans and a F fan) and said Hanley looked all over the place... probably first game jitters but they said he moved like a tank... If you were quoting Lewis Dunk to me however I'd be all over that... He looked genuinely impressive on Saturday... Exactly the long term replacement for Shackell... Did you go on Saturday Robbie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 15 hours ago, tomsdubs said: To be fair we won't meet many front 2 pairings of that quality and physicality this season if at all. Keogh is like a poor man's Mark Wright. Wholehearted and quite skilful for a CB. But alas lightweight and impulsive too. How can anybody possible tell how many other capable strikers Derby will face this season? For starters, the end of August's transfer window is not yet nigh, with January's still to come. NP has a decision to make with this guy. Either tolerate his deficiencies or get rid asap. Remember he is already a mature player, so for Pearson's to try refashioning him in his own image as a stalwart defender may well prove impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: Keogh is like a poor man's Mark Wright. Wholehearted and quite skilful for a CB. But alas lightweight and impulsive too. How can anybody possible tell how many other capable strikers Derby will face this season? For starters, the end of August's transfer window is not yet nigh, with January's still to come. NP has a decision to make with this guy. Either tolerate his deficiencies or get rid asap. Remember he is already a mature player, so for Pearson's to try refashioning him in his own image as a stalwart defender may well prove impossible. I understand the criticism but how many teams even play a front 2 these days? Our midfield got overran and we still didn't concede. It can't be that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: He is fairly lightweight for a CB... But then he's quicker than most CBs his height because of it... And still gave Glenn Murray (tall and strong) very little joy all game... And I think it's unfair only pointing out Keogh's failures and ignoring Shackell... 2/3 clearances straight to the opposition forwards, a hoofing great spoon of a clearance in the box which spun up into the air and landed 2 feet from where he was in the box still and a couple of half-hearted challenges when he'd mis-judged where the opposition player was going to be... Note to all: Defenders make mistakes... All defenders... Every one of them... They also all have relative strengths and weaknesses I personally think a big strong CB and a tall, quick CB together is a decent combination... A couple of my mates went to Fulham (2 NU fans and a F fan) and said Hanley looked all over the place... probably first game jitters but they said he moved like a tank... If you were quoting Lewis Dunk to me however I'd be all over that... He looked genuinely impressive on Saturday... Exactly the long term replacement for Shackell... Did you go on Saturday Robbie? No working, alas. Like your idea of an optimum pairing. I think the profile for a new CB is more important than a specific individual. I'm dead sure Pearson will have that down already. Good shout on Dunk but I reckon he will go to a PL club in due course for upwards of £10 million. As Sam Rush says, a player has to be "gettable." Besides, Brighton would NEVER sell a key player to one of their main rivals, surely? One thing's for certain though, Pearson will not abide recurring frailties in any of his defenders, as he historically builds his teams from the back. BTW, I much prefer to have a proper debate with you than start trading pointless insults. UTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: Like your idea of an optimum pairing. I think the profile for a new CB is more important than a specific individual. I'm dead sure Pearson will have that down already. I would suggest that IF we were in the market for another CB... The chances are we'd be replacing the chap who Pearson didn't pick as captain on saturday... That would be my thought anyway... I can see value in replacing Shackell with a younger model... However after Saturday's game my (already very little) faith in Pearson has been collapsed... Brighton are an immensely beatable team and he picked the wrong side... He seems to be a guy who values hard work over quality... So who knows who he'll bring in... Claude Davis out of retirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I would suggest that IF we were in the market for another CB... The chances are we'd be replacing the chap who Pearson didn't pick as captain on saturday... That would be my thought anyway... I can see value in replacing Shackell with a younger model... However after Saturday's game my (already very little) faith in Pearson has been collapsed... Brighton are an immensely beatable team and he picked the wrong side... He seems to be a guy who values hard work over quality... So who knows who he'll bring in... Claude Davis out of retirement? The essence of what you say is spot on. In truth, whatever the personnel and tactics are, Derby really need to tear up this division if we are going to make a fist at surviving in the PL. Even after his Pearson's Leicester side did exactly that, they still only just missed the drop the next season. At best, maybe he's only good at making cakes, but no good with the icing, Ranieri style. Tough times ahead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Robbie Ram said: Good post AR. That's why Hanley would have been useful. Although not that skilful ( Huth and Morgan anybody?), he's a bit of a bully too, which is just what we need. And at only twenty four, he had also been Rovers captain for some time. We really do need both a dominant CB and a captain. I reckon NP missed a good catch there, as Hanley is also a similar type of CB to him in his playing days. So in today's inflated transfer market, I reckon he was well worth the five and a half million quid NUFC paid. Oh well....... Buxton > Hanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: The essence of what you say is spot on. In truth, whatever the personnel and tactics are, Derby really need to tear up this division if we are going to make a fist at surviving in the PL. Even after his Pearson's Leicester side did exactly that, they still only just missed the drop the next season. At best, maybe he's only good at making cakes, but no good with the icing, Ranieri style. Tough times ahead? After Saturday the only conclusion I can draw is that Pearson was holding Leicester back... With him they got promoted on the 3rd attempt... Then scraped staying in the Premier League... Without him they won the league... We have the cake, we have the icing... We have enough to win bake off three times over... Pearson for some reason just decided on Saturday the statement of intent he wanted to make was "bland" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 45 minutes ago, tomsdubs said: I understand the criticism but how many teams even play a front 2 these days? Our midfield got overran and we still didn't concede. It can't be that bad. Yes it can. If we are going to go up in the first two, we HAVE to beat our main rivals, especially playing at home. These games are like six pointers. The referee's whistle at 3pm last Saturday was in effect the starting pistol for this season's race to begin. We have now already dropped two points to one of the other serious challengers. Time and tide wait for no man. Or football team come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Just now, Robbie Ram said: Yes it can. If we are going to go up in the first two, we HAVE to beat our main rivals, especially playing at home. These games are like six pointers. The referee's whistle at 3pm last Saturday was in effect the starting pistol for this season's race to begin. We have now already dropped two points to one of the other serious challengers. Time and tide wait for no man. Or football team come to that. It was NPs first ever competitive game with this squad, a draw isn't a disaster here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: If we are going to go up in the first two, we HAVE to beat our main rivals, especially playing at home. These games are like six pointers. We have now already dropped two points to one of the other serious challengers. It was disappointing more than anything as we should be much better than Brighton full stop. However your maths is slightly wrong on these ones... When we lose/draw with BAD teams we lose ground on the other challengers... If we get points from the other top teams that keeps us at their level... If we can beat bad teams and challengers then we cruise the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 24 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Buxton > Hanley NOW you're talking dude!! Plus - our Jake was a true Ram through and through. When I first joined on here, people were really mocking me for being such a huge fan of his. I will always consider the club getting rid of him a crime against us diehard supporters. Should have had a job for life here. Doesn't matter what. He had the Shankly spiritual connection thing going on with us. He knew it too, just like we do. Watch his first interview with Wigan on Youtube. Simply heart breaking. The guy loves us with every fibre of his being. Only a cynic would say otherwise. We ARE the club. Just ask uncle Mel. Just wait when he returns for Wigan. All rise for Sir Jake. A giant. A true Ram. Seriously though folks, if the best part of 30.000 souls love a single person, he IS special. He is us in a Derby shirt. Apologies for the emotive bit. Very unBritish of me!! But then again, who gives a flip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, cheron85 said: It was disappointing more than anything as we should be much better than Brighton full stop. However your maths is slightly wrong on these ones... When we lose/draw with BAD teams we lose ground on the other challengers... If we get points from the other top teams that keeps us at their level... If we can beat bad teams and challengers then we cruise the league... Fair do's on your logic. Thanks for the heads up. BUT, one way or another, we really do have to "cruise" this division to stand a cat in hell's in the Prem. Thinking finishing ten to twelve points clear like BC's side did in the sixties. Then finish fourth the first season back, just like they did. Tall order? You betcha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 29 minutes ago, cheron85 said: It was disappointing more than anything as we should be much better than Brighton full stop. sorry, but this completely wrong, last season Brighton missed on on autos by 2 goal difference, they finished 11 points higher than us. They're carrying on straight from where they finished last season whereas we have to learn how to play under a new manager, a new playstyle and a new formation. Last season they were head and shoulders above us and that coupled with the fact that they already know how they want to play means Brighton should have been much better than us, really, they should've tonked us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said: BUT, one way or another, we really do have to "cruise" this division to stand a cat in hell's in the Prem. another wrong post here. the idea that you have to smash the champinoship to survive in the prem is tosh. Hull finished second a few years ago in a really poor league, but survived the season in the prem after, palace scraped through the playoffs and you could now call them an established premier league side. Swansea and west ham went through the playoffs. your now looking at west ham wanting european fotball. qpr won the league a few years ago but were cr*ap, the same with cardiff. burnley tonked the champinoship this season but will almost certainly be back down next year. Southampton only managed 2nd when they were promoted yet they're playing in europe. It doesn't matter on how your promoted. only on how prepared and suited you are for the premier league. the perfect team for the championship is not the perfect team for the premier league, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, Lord_Ram said: another wrong post here. the idea that you have to smash the champinoship to survive in the prem is tosh. Hull finished second a few years ago in a really poor league, but survived the season in the prem after, palace scraped through the playoffs and you could now call them an established premier league side. Swansea and west ham went through the playoffs. your now looking at west ham wanting european fotball. qpr won the league a few years ago but were cr*ap, the same with cardiff. burnley tonked the champinoship this season but will almost certainly be back down next year. Southampton only managed 2nd when they were promoted yet they're playing in europe. It doesn't matter on how your promoted. only on how prepared and suited you are for the premier league. the perfect team for the championship is not the perfect team for the premier league, and vice versa. You're both wrong and right. That was why BC upped his game within one season once back in the top division. But I still say that to go fourth (as he did!) and multiply, we need to become a proper PL in waiting, or risk having to then reinvent ourselves, as well as just surviving there. Pearson's Leicester team did this by sheer guts alone. Then Ranieri added the BC magic dust........ Game on?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 18 minutes ago, Lord_Ram said: sorry, but this completely wrong, last season Brighton missed on on autos by 2 goal difference, they finished 11 points higher than us. They're carrying on straight from where they finished last season whereas we have to learn how to play under a new manager, a new playstyle and a new formation. Last season they were head and shoulders above us and that coupled with the fact that they already know how they want to play means Brighton should have been much better than us, really, they should've tonked us Last season they did well, the season before they were horrible... Nearly got relegated... And the season before they were playoff semi-finalists... They aren't exactly consistent season to season... Plus we have only lost to them at home once in the last 10 fixtures and have beaten them in 6 of those... Saturday was a pretty terrible performance by us... I haven't seen anyone who said otherwise... And we were a match for Brighton... That says to me that we SHOULD be beating them... Plus from my memory we should have beaten them on both occasions last year? I seem to recall those were both games where we played them off the park and got robbed? I seem to remember being in absolute shock when they went ahead at home as we'd been spanking them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: After Saturday the only conclusion I can draw is that Pearson was holding Leicester back... With him they got promoted on the 3rd attempt... Then scraped staying in the Premier League... Without him they won the league... We have the cake, we have the icing... We have enough to win bake off three times over... Pearson for some reason just decided on Saturday the statement of intent he wanted to make was "bland" Facts and funnies are always good. Maybe we have ourselves another poison dwarf, just bigger. Eleven points will not be enough next time either, surely? In football terms, I just hate vanilla ( not the Aston kind). UTR. Robbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Has to be top 2.....play-off win last time in 2006 led to !!!%%%***### points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Grantona said: Has to be top 2.....play-off win last time in 2006 led to !!!%%%***### points. That's one too many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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