rynny Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, curtains said: Yes it's a Football forum and it's about opinions and not getting promoted has been a failure IMO Id get good money for Martin and Keogh by selling them both and then buy replacements which would serve us better . There are other good players out there. Who said you couldn't have an opinion? The problem arises where you criticise others for having a scapegoat then in your next sentence you are scapegoating Martin. That is just hypocritical. Not getting promoted isn't a success so by definition is a failure but the bigger picture isn't one of failure. So you would sell our current POTS and our top scorer for the past 3 seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 2 hours ago, curtains said: Not your usual monologue . I wonder if Pearson will get Martin to stand up and run faster He's a football manager not an athletics coach, what is the obsession with running fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 11 minutes ago, rynny said: Who said you couldn't have an opinion? The problem arises where you criticise others for having a scapegoat then in your next sentence you are scapegoating Martin. That is just hypocritical. Not getting promoted isn't a success so by definition is a failure but the bigger picture isn't one of failure. So you would sell our current POTS and our top scorer for the past 3 seasons? Yes and replace them with quality. Football forums are hypocritical in essence because you can't have a favorable opinion all the time without some criticism rather than open scapegoating. We failed last season and something has to change. Just changing manager might not be enough on its own without some ins and outs . Losing at home 3-0 in a playoff semi final is not acceptable. Finishing 5th last season and 8th the season before losing 3-0 at home to Reading when we only needed a draw to finish in the top 6 was not acceptable IMO. Maybe you are easily pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, curtains said: Yes and replace them with quality. Football forums are hypocritical in essence because you can't have a favorable opinion all the time. We failed last season and something has to change. Losing at home 3-0 in a playoff semi final is not acceptable. Finishing 5th last season and 8 th the season before was not acceptable IMO. Maybe you are easily pleased. But they are quality. Martin especially, you don't score 60 odd goals in 3 seasons if you arent quality. They are not hypocritical if you don't do what you are calling other people out on, especially in the next sentence. Something has changed, the person picking the team, the tactics. I didn't say last season was acceptable, or the season before. I said it wasn't a success so by definition a failure. The bigger picture of where we were 3 years ago to now is one that isn't failure and been for the most part refreshing that we are at the right end of the table of 8 odd years of rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, rynny said: But they are quality. Martin especially, you don't score 60 odd goals in 3 seasons if you arent quality. They are not hypocritical if you don't do what you are calling other people out on, especially in the next sentence. Something has changed, the person picking the team, the tactics. I didn't say last season was acceptable, or the season before. I said it wasn't a success so by definition a failure. The bigger picture of where we were 3 years ago to now is one that isn't failure and been for the most part refreshing that we are at the right end of the table of 8 odd years of rubbish. Who have I called out . I said some Derby fans scapegoat some players . Is that correct or not with Ince and Johnson and Hendrick and Wiemann and Blackman How am I scapegoating Martin . I wouldn't let him go for less tha 5 million and the same with Keogh. Then I would replace them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, curtains said: Yes and replace them with quality. Football forums are hypocritical in essence because you can't have a favorable opinion all the time without some criticism rather than open scapegoating. We failed last season and something has to change. Just changing manager might not be enough on its own without some ins and outs . Losing at home 3-0 in a playoff semi final is not acceptable. Finishing 5th last season and 8th the season before losing 3-0 at home to Reading when we only needed a draw to finish in the top 6 was not acceptable IMO. Maybe you are easily pleased. 'We failed last season and something has to change.' is my favourite quote ever. FACT. Maybe someone could PM Mel or Sam to ask them to countenance a change of manager or something like that Plus can you post a location map for the IPro. I've now realised I must have been going to the wrong place over the last three years, as for large swathes of the time (Clement's tenure excepted) I had been entertained by the stuff I've seen. Shame all round really, as I thought with a new manager, that bunch of lads stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said: 'We failed last season and something has to change.' is my favourite quote ever. FACT. Maybe someone could PM Mel or Sam to ask them to countenance a change of manager or something like that Plus can you post a location map for the IPro. I've now realised I must have been going to the wrong place over the last three years, as for large swathes of the time (Clement's tenure excepted) I had been entertained by the stuff I've seen. Shame all round really, as I thought with a new manager, that bunch of lads stood a chance. Really you have been entertained well fair enough then. So why change Managers then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 11 minutes ago, curtains said: Really you have been entertained well fair enough then. So why change Managers then. Exactly. I'm going to be chanting for 'Darren Wassall's Black and White Army' at Mickleover Sports with the best of them.* *Only joking fella. I sit in the West Stand and even in Mickleover we don't care much for people making a racket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Not as if James Vardy who scored 24 goals in the Premier League,last season,hasn't got a decent turn of speed. Mind you looking at both of them,Martin can beat Vardy to the pies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixman1884 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 6 hours ago, curtains said: No I don't. I Just do not like favouritism . All the players have a clean slate. Lets see how Pearson and Powell go. Its up to them. I'm not sure if this was intended, but the spacing and italics make this read as a poem. A rather moving one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 47 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Not as if James Vardy who scored 24 goals in the Premier League,last season,hasn't got a decent turn of speed. Mind you looking at both of them,Martin can beat Vardy to the pies. The Premier Leagues all time top scorer wasn't known for pace It's a total myth that defenders hate attackers that can run fast. They hate good footballers. Football first. Pace second. And last season was the first time Vardy scored more than 20 since leaving Fleetwood. Vardy didn't score 24 goals because he's fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 4 hours ago, curtains said: Who have I called out . I said some Derby fans scapegoat some players . Is that correct or not with Ince and Johnson and Hendrick and Wiemann and Blackman How am I scapegoating Martin . I wouldn't let him go for less tha 5 million and the same with Keogh. Then I would replace them So if someone criticises Johnson then that's scapegoating But if you criticise Martin then that's not scapegoating. You called out Martin. First person to mention him What's the difference? Running through the list of Derby players I would have thought a bloke who scores 55 goals in 3 seasons (while also being injured for a chunk of one) and is the first link of our transition to attack would be pretty low down on the To Sell list. Maybe if 90% of people rate Martin and you don't then it may be you that's missing something? That's what I'd think. Myself I think Thorne has been overrated last season but nobody else does so I accept I might be being harsh Martin would win a lot more people over if he ran faster. Which is exactly why we have a nation of athletes and rely on foreigners for technical ability. Because we think pace is hugely important and really scary. If it was true then Walcott wouldn't be complete ***** and Iniesta would have won nothing Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo etc all defy the principals of British football. We want athletes. We want beasts. Runners full of fire and passion. An Anthony Joshua mixed with Mo Farah. With the Johnny Russell fist pump. Then left scratching our heads at why we keep losing this TEAM sport to little soft foreigners and their football skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Alpha said: The Premier Leagues all time top scorer wasn't known for pace It's a total myth that defenders hate attackers that can run fast. They hate good footballers. Football first. Pace second. And last season was the first time Vardy scored more than 20 since leaving Fleetwood. Vardy didn't score 24 goals because he's fast. Not quite true, if you have pace you don't have to be a Maradona to be successful footie. If you have both football/finishing skills and pace you are Maradona............... All the greatest had both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Our style of play will probably change due to the new manager, some say we will go 4-4-2 much of the time, personally I ain't bothered what formation will play as long as we are successful. As for players being sold on? Again I am not bothered as long we have an placement and again we are successful. In the new manager I do trust. As for Martin, for me he is an old fashioned type of CF, he does remained me of UTD's Stu Pearson................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I said it in the transfer suggestion thread I'd like us to sign a pacy forward, preferably one that can head the ball too. Kodjia fits the bill but we won't get him because he is too expensive. Whilst you are correct Alpha that pace isn't always essential, defenders hate playing against pace. They always have and always will. To be fair to Curtains, he suggested Andre Gray this time last year but everyone rubbished this suggestion. If we do sign a forward then he has to to be pacy otherwise we would have the world's slowest front line. This would allow opposition teams to have a high line knowing that our forwards won't run in behind. Wells is more realistic than Kodjia for me so I'd quite like him. A Martin-Wells partnership would complement each other quite well and would prevent Martin from being isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 6 hours ago, Alpha said: So if someone criticises Johnson then that's scapegoating But if you criticise Martin then that's not scapegoating. You called out Martin. First person to mention him What's the difference? Running through the list of Derby players I would have thought a bloke who scores 55 goals in 3 seasons (while also being injured for a chunk of one) and is the first link of our transition to attack would be pretty low down on the To Sell list. Maybe if 90% of people rate Martin and you don't then it may be you that's missing something? That's what I'd think. Myself I think Thorne has been overrated last season but nobody else does so I accept I might be being harsh Martin would win a lot more people over if he ran faster. Which is exactly why we have a nation of athletes and rely on foreigners for technical ability. Because we think pace is hugely important and really scary. If it was true then Walcott wouldn't be complete ***** and Iniesta would have won nothing Iniesta, Xavi, Pirlo etc all defy the principals of British football. We want athletes. We want beasts. Runners full of fire and passion. An Anthony Joshua mixed with Mo Farah. With the Johnny Russell fist pump. Then left scratching our heads at why we keep losing this TEAM sport to little soft foreigners and their football skills. Agree with what you said but the difference with Xavi,Iniesta and Pirlo is that they were midfielders where you don't necessarily have to be fast and strong if you had a brain. I'd like to point out that when Iniesta played lw for Barcelona under Guardiola for a bit, he struggled because he didn't have a turn of pace to beat defenders but I see your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanoakaram4life Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Andre Gray was 8 million, I think kodjia would be cheaper than that to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Like I say Chris Martin can do no wrong in most Derby fans eyes Lets see next season then. I must be wrong . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 58 minutes ago, curtains said: Like I say Chris Martin can do no wrong in most Derby fans eyes Lets see next season then. I must be wrong . No in most Derby fans' eyes we can see the bigger picture and are prepared to overlook some minor issues and see that he is a very good player. But I see Martin is already this season's scapegoat, and we haven't even started pre-season yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 54 minutes ago, rynny said: No in most Derby fans' eyes we can see the bigger picture and are prepared to overlook some minor issues and see that he is a very good player. But I see Martin is already this season's scapegoat, and we haven't even started pre-season yet! About time. I blame EURO's, some people concentrated finding scapegoats from England's team. As it was relatively easy task, maybe everyone is now fully focused finding them from our own ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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