jagerbob Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 28 minutes ago, mwram1973 said: If MM listened to 99% on here, the club would be up the shitters by now. He may read the forums but he's a top businessman. My feeling is 3 season = head coach = No promotion. I think he's just changing direction On one level, since Chris Evans left it has not been clear what our scouting/recruitment process is. So on that level its not a suprise, the appointment of Pearson does sound a tad like Mel is listening to the fans, not that I think that is a good thing. Fan or not, id rather a decent sound businessman who can show to make good strategic decisions be in charge than a fan who lets his heart make the decisions and fire a coach every time we dont get promoted in one season This appointment seems to me we are throwing out our original strategy on having a playing identity. This worries me much more than if or when we get promoted. Allowing a manager who according to averages will be gone in 18 months anyway to completely change the club is a dangerous game if you ask me. I cant see Man City or Chelsea changing their seperate Coach and Recruitment system any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 31 minutes ago, David said: I guess it could be possible he wasn't happy with those that recommended the players, couldn't find the right DOF, clock ticking, £25m spent last season, let's go for this experienced proven manager and get us up there. Limit the money he can spend, we can't spend that much anyway with the FFP restrictions. Personally believe this is the case. As you said, the people above the head coach have to be right, and if we can't get the suitable people above then we needed to change the approach and go for a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 54 minutes ago, David said: Not entirely true, whilst the idea isn't an English one it's becoming more common in England now. A look at last season in the top 2 leagues you had 6 head coaches in the Premier League and 10 in the Championship. Those numbers will increase over the coming seasons, Guardiola for a start will be head coach next season. I prefer the head coach role but it's important the appointments above are right, they should also lose their bullet proof vests when things go tits up. Leicester - Manager Arsenal - Manager Spurs - Head Coach Man City - Manager Man Utd - Manager Southampton - Manager West Ham - Manager Liverpool - Manager Stoke - Manager Chelsea - Head Coach Everton - Manager Swansea - Head Coach Watford - Head Coach West Brom - Head Coach Crystal Palace - Manager Bournemouth - Manager Sunderland - Manager Newcastle - Head Coach Norwich - Manager Villa - Manager Burnley - Manager Boro - Head Coach Brighton - Manager Hull - Manager Derby - Head Coach Shelf Wed - Head Coach Ipswich - Manager Cardiff - Manager Brentford - Head Coach Birmingham - Manager Preston - Manager QPR - Head Coach Leeds - Head Coach Wolves - Head Coach Blackburn - Manager Forest - Manager Reading - Manager Bristol C - Head Coach Huddersfield - Head Coach Fulham - Manager Rotherham - Manager Charlton - Head Coach MK Dons - Manager Bolton - Manager So having a manager in place, instead of a head coach brings more success, thanks for proving my point, top 9 in premier league have 7 as managers, and 2 head coaches, so I think by your stats, Mel has got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 38 minutes ago, David said: Managers can leave huge repair jobs behind. I'd argue Head Coach Clement has left a lot of expensive flops in a bloated squad for the incoming man to put right. MM is on record as saying he'll always back his man. Camara and Blackman being the examples. If he's largely going to give his manager/coach what he wants then how does the title matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Derby blood said: So having a manager in place, instead of a head coach brings more success, thanks for proving my point, top 9 in premier league have 7 as managers, and 2 head coaches, so I think by your stats, Mel has got it right. But in the championship, the league we are in, it was split 50-50 with head coaches and managers for top 6, where we are aiminig to be. Also 4 out of 6 teams relegated had managers. Easy this using stats to twist to your own agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Derby blood said: So having a manager in place, instead of a head coach brings more success, thanks for proving my point, top 9 in premier league have 7 as managers, and 2 head coaches, so I think by your stats, Mel has got it right. Not really proved your point, you claimed the head coach role isn't done in England, if Sheff Wed go up today that's 2 out of 3 that have gone up with Head Coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamO Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 2 hours ago, David said: Bit surprised by the change of direction, was sold on the head coach idea, made a lot of sense. My only thought is whilst Pearson is manager, someone above will still have to sign the cheques so it's not like he will go nuts. Saying that, Mel also said he will always back his manager 100% whilst they are at the club. Be interesting to hear why the change, hoping there is reasoning behind it, not knocking the appointment but it kinda feels like giving the online fans what they wanted and scraped their vision. I'm wondering whether it has something to do with recruitment, which we all know has been a bit of a dog's breakfast this last season? The head coach role seemed to be at arms length to get was happening on the scouting side of things - I.e. lots of players were bought with the coach in mind. With the title of 'Manager', Pearson has control over recruitment. The scouts will answer to him rather be in a team with him. That way, he has complete control (MM chequebook signature willing) over his vision for team. But I have no real idea how the backroom staff works in a football team, so I could be way off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor1946 Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 How many cock ups,and poor decision making,does it take for some people,--Whitbread--Bent--Camara---Weiman--Blackman---Pearce--Baird-Johnson--Ince--Butterfield,--All bit part players,that cost.23 milion.and i leave you to figure out the wage bill.and add to that,all the sackings and compensation payments,, I for one feel over the moon,A manager and chairman.dealing with football matters,. Three years of a structure built on sand ending in failure,took a brave decision to,stop the rot, Mel Morris i salute you,I feel our club is back,on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 5 minutes ago, needles said: I'd argue Head Coach Clement has left a lot of expensive flops in a bloated squad for the incoming man to put right. Possibly but I would counter that by saying these flops could turn it on next season. Can't judge their time at Derby until they leave. 5 minutes ago, needles said: MM is on record as saying he'll always back his man. Camara and Blackman being the examples. If he's largely going to give his manager/coach what he wants then how does the title matter? True, I think it just offers a little more control on signings but like you say, Mel said he would back his man 100% so does it really matter in the end. I'm just confused by it all that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 1 hour ago, needles said: I think it's largely irrelevant what the job title is. I refuse to acknowledge this until @curtains confirms it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t'oldu Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 it was explained on Radio Derby Special moan in last evening that the Head Coach shift was to get the most out of McClaren ie. Maximise the coaching which he is good at and strip away the rest of a manager's job which he is NOT good at. PC was a natural progression as was Wassall. Now we have an experienced Manager who can handle all aspects and will take the control back. Normality resumed................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 2 hours ago, David said: Not entirely true, whilst the idea isn't an English one it's becoming more common in England now. A look at last season in the top 2 leagues you had 6 head coaches in the Premier League and 10 in the Championship. Those numbers will increase over the coming seasons, Guardiola for a start will be head coach next season. I prefer the head coach role but it's important the appointments above are right, they should also lose their bullet proof vests when things go tits up. Leicester - Manager Arsenal - Manager Spurs - Head Coach Man City - Manager Man Utd - Manager Southampton - Manager West Ham - Manager Liverpool - Manager Stoke - Manager Chelsea - Head Coach Everton - Manager Swansea - Head Coach Watford - Head Coach West Brom - Head Coach Crystal Palace - Manager Bournemouth - Manager Sunderland - Manager Newcastle - Head Coach Norwich - Manager Villa - Manager Burnley - Manager Boro - Head Coach Brighton - Manager Hull - Manager Derby - Head Coach Shelf Wed - Head Coach Ipswich - Manager Cardiff - Manager Brentford - Head Coach Birmingham - Manager Preston - Manager QPR - Head Coach Leeds - Head Coach Wolves - Head Coach Blackburn - Manager Forest - Manager Reading - Manager Bristol C - Head Coach Huddersfield - Head Coach Fulham - Manager Rotherham - Manager Charlton - Head Coach MK Dons - Manager Bolton - Manager That's 6 out of 8 in top 2 divisions with a manager and top of each league playing 4-4-2. I think we have tried the continental system as a nation recently and it doesn't suit English clubs as well as continentals. I think you may be wrong on your assumption of directional travel. I think Leicester will surprise a few in Europe next season and old school football will be more popular again. Including Man U even with Jose playing a far more traditional style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 1 hour ago, David said: Possibly but I would counter that by saying these flops could turn it on next season. Can't judge their time at Derby until they leave. True, I think it just offers a little more control on signings but like you say, Mel said he would back his man 100% so does it really matter in the end. I'm just confused by it all that's all. All fair points. In fact I reckon it's likely at least one also-ran this season plays a big role out of the blue next term. Camara? Weimann? Bent? I don't see much mileage in over-thinking it, although from your perspective of having had the Head Coach thing explained from the horses mouth it must seem strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 27 minutes ago, Doodle said: That's 6 out of 8 in top 2 divisions with a manager and top of each league playing 4-4-2. I think we have tried the continental system as a nation recently and it doesn't suit English clubs as well as continentals. I think you may be wrong on your assumption of directional travel. I think Leicester will surprise a few in Europe next season and old school football will be more popular again. Including Man U even with Jose playing a far more traditional style And could be 2 out of the 3 that have been promoted this season out of our league. As Rynny said earlier stats can be used to fit any agenda not that I have one, just a personal preference I have that's all. Both will and have been proven to be successful over time and with more clubs going down that route each season makes me think it will be more common as seasons roll by and the older old school managers retire. Maybe I'm wrong, it has been known to happen! I'm not expecting any surprises from Leicester in the CL to be honest and that's nothing to do with formation or manager structure, just simply playing better clubs. Not taking anything away from them this season, great achievement which was helped by so many of the so called big clubs having awful seasons. I would be very surprised if they made top 10 next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, needles said: All fair points. In fact I reckon it's likely at least one also-ran this season plays a big role out of the blue next term. Camara? Weimann? Bent? I don't see much mileage in over-thinking it, although from your perspective of having had the Head Coach thing explained from the horses mouth it must seem strange. My money will be on a big turn around from Bradley Johnson, can see him being a key player. Why can I feel this may be quoted at some point next season what a fool I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammeister Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, David said: My money will be on a big turn around from Bradley Johnson, can see him being a key player. Why can I feel this may be quoted at some point next season what a fool I am. Reckon you might be quoted sooner than next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, David said: My money will be on a big turn around from Bradley Johnson, can see him being a key player. Why can I feel this may be quoted at some point next season what a fool I am. 1 minute ago, Rammeister said: Reckon you might be quoted sooner than next season. David. You're a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, needles said: David. You're a fool. You sound just like my missus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, David said: You sound just like my missus Shut up and put that washing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 22 minutes ago, Rammeister said: Reckon you might be quoted sooner than next season. And you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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