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The Wassall impact


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I've seen a few posts on here, that DW needs time to implement his style on the team, and how he should be given more time.  In fact some posts have even mentioned that he has to coach the players again to kick a ball longer than 10 yards, as they have not been used to this.

The last manager who came in mid season, managed 28 points out of the next 35 by changing the style and personnel very slightly. The previous manager had taken 11 points from 27, so I'm not buying that he needs time to implement a new style, there is no evidence of what this is, we are playing square pegs in round holes, and our manager seems to think that the performances that are being put in are off an acceptable standard.

As MM as already said that he will be here for the rest of the season, so maybe we need an idea on how to keep the season alive.

Following on from a earlier thread, and how can we be expected to get anything from Sky, against wolves at a lunch time kick off, and given we now have a new FIFA president who may be open to giving us a helping hand, is there anything we can ask that will help influence our season ?

Maybe we could ask for the play off final to  be moved, although we need to get there first, I suppose :-(

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I think that the club has got itself into a difficult situation. We've spent a lot of money bringing in players that don't seem to fit together very well. That spending will inhibit the club's ability to spend very much for the next couple of seasons. The players don't look to be displaying much team spirit. The coaching staff don't seem to be getting the best from the players, and they don't even look to be fit enough. It looks to me like the whole thing needs a huge shake up. 

I'd argue that it is virtually impossible for anyone from within the club to perform such a task. Darren Wassall may go on to be a good manager, but he is destined to fail in the current circumstances. That is no reflection on Wassall, it's just that I firmly believe that the problems can only be solved by someone with the respect that past success has brought coming in from outside. The continuity offered by an internal appointment is the very last thing that Derby County needs.

Our FFP situation also requires an experienced head. We need someone who can assess the current players and quickly understand exactly what is needed in terms of recruitment. We simply won't be able to waste any more cash, so our recruitment must be far more focused and effective. That won't come from a committee. It will come from a proper manager, with a track record of success, a clearly planned vision, and a big enough personality to face down all opposition - whether that be interfering owners, prima donna players, or fans wanting a particular player dropped.

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Impact?

No, we now look like a mid table side and yet I believe he still thinks we are doing ok.

Wassall is without doubt a very good youth team coach, he is not a first team coach and the 4 games played under him so far proves it.

We need a pair of fresh eyes and an experienced coach at this level, a coach that can mold these players to play as a team and into an attacking force.

 

 

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Wassall seems to believe that motivation (seemingly achieved entirely through positive reinforcement) is the key. I do think this is important, but I can't help but think he's gone a little overboard. Bouncing around like we'd won a trophy after beating Brentford could be forgiven since it was his first win as a professional manager, but continuing to heap praise on the players in an effort to build them up after a performance like yesterday leaves me scratching my head. Positive reinforcement worked really well with the tight knit, hard working, disciplined group that McClaren inherited from Clough. I don't see that same work ethic or discipline in some of the newer players. I don't know how to rectify that and I'm not sure Wassall does either.

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I'd like to know why people say he's done brilliantly with the kids?

I'm not saying he has or hasn't, but what does that even mean?

Do they win age group comps, is there a conveyor belt of academy graduates pushing the 1st team?

Do the players we release go on to build careers at a lower level?

It seems to me at least it's incredibly hard to measure the success or otherwise of an academy set-up, so I wonder how people have arrived at the conclusion he's an outstanding youth team boss.

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I was one of those who didn't get carried away with our first two successive wins under Wassall, even though he kept saying we were excellent.

in reality we were losing 1-0 to Brentford after 80 minutes, & only looked something near excellent for the last 14 minutes of the game.

As for the win at home to Blackburn, had it not been for another wonder strike by Butterfield early on in the game we would almost certainly only come away with a point.

Sadly we didn't deserve anything from the game at Wolves yesterday they were clearly more up for a battle & the better side over 90 minutes, regardless of Wassall saying after the game that we deserved a point from the game at least. Open your eyes Mr Wassall nothing has really changed since Clement sacking, if anything we've got slightly worse.

Big broom needed plus an experienced manager who knows how to get out of this league.

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3 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I'd like to know why people say he's done brilliantly with the kids?

I'm not saying he has or hasn't, but what does that even mean?

Do they win age group comps, is there a conveyor belt of academy graduates pushing the 1st team?

Do the players we release go on to build careers at a lower level?

It seems to me at least it's incredibly hard to measure the success or otherwise of an academy set-up, so I wonder how people have arrived at the conclusion he's an outstanding youth team boss.

I think we are pretty poor at producing talent from the academy. With only 3 players considered part of the first team squad from 7 years Wassall has been here. We very rarely get past the second round in the youth cup and we have just finished in the bottom four of the league. 

This doesn't shout out success.

 

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3 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I'd like to know why people say he's done brilliantly with the kids?

I'm not saying he has or hasn't, but what does that even mean?

Do they win age group comps, is there a conveyor belt of academy graduates pushing the 1st team?

Do the players we release go on to build careers at a lower level?

It seems to me at least it's incredibly hard to measure the success or otherwise of an academy set-up, so I wonder how people have arrived at the conclusion he's an outstanding youth team boss.

Personally I think its hard to assess actually how good the academy network is across all teams in the English league. I mean we don't see that many young players break through in comparison with the amount of teams there actually are. Clubs are always buying players from abroad or from other teams rather than establishing young players. So even if our academy was winning leagues and trophies galore its really hard to measure. Haven't Chelsea's academy teams won loads of stuff but how many of their players have gone onto actually establish themselves? 

So no matter how successful a coach is with a younger age group, once you hit the heights of the weight of expectation of a first team from, the board, media, fans and the influx of money and egos, it changes everything.

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The acadamy is hard to judge based on results... Haven't uniteds under 18s lost loads this season but if their academh is rubbish with the lads they've brought through to the first team recently then id take ours being rubbish 

thought the academy was more about playing properly and preparing players for the first team rather than results. Getting the right technique and development rather than picking lads that are big and athletic for their age and walking the youth leagues 

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3 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

The acadamy is hard to judge based on results... Haven't uniteds under 18s lost loads this season but if their academh is rubbish with the lads they've brought through to the first team recently then id take ours being rubbish 

thought the academy was more about playing properly and preparing players for the first team rather than results. Getting the right technique and development rather than picking lads that are big and athletic for their age and walking the youth leagues 

But we don't appear to be getting results or producing for the first team.  

Will any of the current U21s progress to the first team, or even any of the current U18s. This is the only thing we can judge Wassall on at present, as it's his previous job. 

We can probably blame signing a number of senior players this season bloating the squad size, but if the players we produce ourselves are good enough surely they would have broken through by now. 

Maybe clement had this view and that has potentially been his downfall (allegedly accordingly to the club)

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1 hour ago, FrostedRam said:

I think we are pretty poor at producing talent from the academy. With only 3 players considered part of the first team squad from 7 years Wassall has been here. We very rarely get past the second round in the youth cup and we have just finished in the bottom four of the league. 

This doesn't shout out success.

 

We've only had a Category 1 Academy for 18 months - and in the U18 and U21 leagues Derby are competing against academies from established Premier League clubs.

I think that you are just looking for any excuse to castigate Wassall, implying that he cannot do his own job so how could he do anyone else's.

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24 minutes ago, eddie said:

We've only had a Category 1 Academy for 18 months - and in the U18 and U21 leagues Derby are competing against academies from established Premier League clubs.

I think that you are just looking for any excuse to castigate Wassall, implying that he cannot do his own job so how could he do anyone else's.

Yes you're correct. In my eyes he isn't the man for the job. Happy to be proven wrong but I haven't seen an improvement in the football since he took over. As it's been pointed out some people are number 2s (brown and clement) and some people are academy coaches (Wassall). 

Seems many people on here are saying clement was inexperienced, but to resolve this we put somebody even less experienced in. 

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28 minutes ago, eddie said:

We've only had a Category 1 Academy for 18 months - and in the U18 and U21 leagues Derby are competing against academies from established Premier League clubs.

I think that you are just looking for any excuse to castigate Wassall, implying that he cannot do his own job so how could he do anyone else's.

Still doesn't explain the lack of products coming through.

we are not playing premier league teams in the championship. Surely it's easier to get players to a championship standard to bring through the system. 

Hughes, Hendrick and (potentially) Hanson in 7 years. Really it's not as good as we make it out to be. 

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7 minutes ago, FrostedRam said:

Yes you're correct. In my eyes he isn't the man for the job. Happy to be proven wrong but I haven't seen an improvement in the football since he took over. As it's been pointed out some people are number 2s (brown and clement) and some people are academy coaches (Wassall). 

Seems many people on here are saying clement was inexperienced, but to resolve this we put somebody even less experienced in. 

I quite agree.

I'm in the 'shouldn't have given Clement the job' camp - but what's done is done. All I can assume (and it is an assumption, and nothing to do with 'the breakfast club' or any supposed privileged information I wasn't party to in the first place), is that the club have somebody in mind for the role, and that person isn't available at the moment for one reason or another.

Mel asked me who I would like to see in the job - I said "Steve McClaren".

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12 minutes ago, FrostedRam said:

Still doesn't explain the lack of products coming through.

we are not playing premier league teams in the championship. Surely it's easier to get players to a championship standard to bring through the system. 

Hughes, Hendrick and (potentially) Hanson in 7 years. Really it's not as good as we make it out to be. 

Bennett, Rawson and Thomas have all made appearances too, here or elsewhere.

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