Positive Intent eradicates the Issues.

[Mostyn6]

There have been a lot of discussions regarding formations, selections, form of players, substitutions, recruitment, squad improvement, manager ability and other topics which posters here believe are important factors in the recent performances and results.

I personally believe, and am surprised, given our recent history, that others don’t believe the same, that the major contributory factor to all of the issues is a Negative Philosophy.

Many posters give a big sigh when we mention Nigel Clough, but the fact is, he divided opinion so much, but his term as Manager was so consistent, that it HAS to be used as the measuring stick.

During those Clough years, as someone critical of his perceived lack of positivity, I was forever calling for him to just ‘go for it’. Not long after McClaren was appointed, I attended a Pub Tour, which was attended by Paul Simpson, Sam Rush, Don Ammott and a couple of others, like John Vicars. I was given the opportunity to jump on the soapbox and say my piece, in fact, I had a few chances, and I took them.

One of my first soapbox waffles was regarding “being positive”, and I recall looking Simmo in the eyes and declaring “fans just want you to go for it!”, to which the whole room agreed! The next game, Watford away, we won 3-2, with late substitute Connor Sammon having a winning impact in which was a game we would previously have lost, having tried to consolidate for a point!

What McClaren proved during his first 20 games, which involved minimal changes to the squad (Smith out? Wisdom and Dawkins in?), was that the squad, and the quality of the players within that squad, most of whom are still here, were vastly underrated. This being fuelled by the series of small issues being exposed by a lack of positive intent. McClaren came in with positivity, a stupid grin and a philosophy bordering on ‘gung ho’. It wasn’t all-conquering, but no single variety of tactics are, even Barcelona lose games that they should win!

So, to the here and now. We still have many players who suffered the nightmares of the previous two seasons, and even though many new signings have been made since McClaren’s sacking, a lot of players in pivotal positions have been here a few years.

It’s clear at the moment that many fans are disillusioned with what they are seeing on the pitch, and even more so, there’s confusion as to how a team can spend as much money investing in the squad, and end up looking worse. But that presents the question, Are we just exposed to the many little problems because of the lack of positive intent? Or are we actually a worse squad?

If I personally was to answer that, I would suggest that we are not a bad squad, we have lots of quality. I would suggest there is a clear lack of identity, style and philosophy. I would also suggest that a new philosophy could have the same impact on the team now, as the new philosophy McClaren implemented did at the end of 2013.

What do we do to sort out all the little problems? Simple, just bloody go for it! We do not have enough calm heads in defence to sit back and be tactical. Yet we do possess enough pace, and pace WITH the ball, to attack. Fans would be far more forgiving of a 5-4 defeat than a 0-0 draw, because simply, there are at least 4 positives to take from a 5-4 defeat. A 0-0 draw has one positive, a clean sheet, but it will never send fans home entertained.

If I had the chance to speak to Clement, it would be quite clear, my message would be to forget tactics, go for the win! Simply, in this league, there’s no coincidence the likes of Neil Warnock know how to get promotion, and the ones supposedly tactical, have struggled to make an impact.

If you’re on the front foot, and pinning back the opposition, and doing it with an attacking and fast tempo, all the other issues generally disappear! When you worry about the opposition, and show them too much respect, your fears will generally come true.

What do you guys think?

 

[Thierry Ennui]

You've dressed it up nicely but this is essentially the same as the that topic yesterday about the players needing to pull their socks up and stop faffing.

The highlight was the bit about forgetting tactics. Do you want them all to chase the ball in a pack? Footballers are given very specific instructions and rightly so. In my view they've been given the wrong instructions and this is what needs addressing.

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

You've dressed it up nicely but this is essentially the same as the that topic yesterday about the players needing to pull their socks up and stop faffing.

The highlight was the bit about forgetting tactics. Do you want them all to chase the ball in a pack? Footballers are given very specific instructions and rightly so. In my view they've been given the wrong instructions and this is what needs addressing.

no, but by focussing so much on the opposition with your tactics, you fail to instil a consistent philosophy and style. Spend more time on phases of play and movement and less time making your players think about what an opponent can (but might not) do!

[Sparkle]

We could go 4-0 up then defend just to make him feel better we are in the championship teams should be blown away by what we have available. All that said I believe if Thorne had returned fit last season at the end of January with another proven championship centre half and yes with bent and even ince we would have won the league from being six points in front. So what have all but most of the additions done but confuse things

yes please let's attack properly it is more fun and we do have cover at the back this season currently

[Albert]

The problem with "positivity" is that such a mentality lead arguably to our two biggest collapses in recent times, the first was 2010-11 disaster, and the second was of course McClaren's wildride of last season. 

Positivity can help issues, but it equally can be a catalyst to complete implosion. Just being "positive" isn't enough to turn a side around, and as those two prior examples (one of which is the reason for this more conservative approach) demonstrated, when you've been positive and hit a slump, that's it, that's your season. 

Nigel wasn't always negative with us, it was a response to the 2010-11 fiasco, just as this season is a response to the McClaren fiasco. It's also worth noting that we didn't actually start that poorly before Nigel left, and he could very well have made the playoffs that season, we simply don't know as we don't have a large enough sample with that squad. McClaren as it turned out was a masterstroke, but it's something that can't really be defined. 

I'd also argue it's complete and total sausages that fans would be more forgiving with a 5-4 loss. If the early stages of season season showed us anything it was that performances only matter when fans are looking for a stick to beat someone with. What matters is that final scoreline, and Clement was getting the goods up until this slump, and he may well get the goods through the rest of the season. The number of early season performances though where we actually performed really well, only for fans to be furious because of the scoreline alone though was horrifying. 

What we're seeing now is a symptom of fans being completely disconnected from reality though. They hear "£20 million" and start planning their away trips to Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge, and when it suddenly turns out this league isn't just as hard as ever, and there are clubs who are spending amounts similar to us, whoa, Mel's million have already bought us promotion, who is this Clement joker?!

I'd love this league to be as simple as "just attack", but it's not that simple. The team is in a slump, we need some results, but saying "we must just attack, forget the rest" is as silly as saying "we should just send all our defenders out, forget having strikers". Maybe more positive might help this situation, who knows, but as we've seen in recent years, positivity on it's own isn't enough to turn around a slump. 

[RamNut]

Pity jeff didn't hit the target in the first minute.

ultimately thats the difference.

[I am Ram]

Definitely Home games.

[Mostyn6]

Albert, I know you like to be devil's advocate when presented with something posing as rigidly black and white, and maybe I have over simplified it. But I am talking to get us out of this current situation.

If you think we actually performed really well at any point this season, I'd think you need a refresher on the use of superlatives. Even winning, many fans were moaning about the poor performances. That is a fact, feel free to research the last 50 pages of this sub-forum and the Match Chat forum too. I know it's not comprehensive, but I cannot prove what has been said in other places and forums.

We are NOW detached from the 2015 form which took us to the top of the table, we are still 4th ffs! That is now forgotten to many, and if looking at the here and now, we need to change something. Yes, I believe positive intent is the first step in that change. There's nothing else that could work imo.

[ramsbottom]

As has always been the case, it's not a question of being gung-ho, or parking the bus, it's hitting that sweet spot in between.  We were too inclined to attack last season and now were too inclined to defend this season.  The first season under Schteve we had it just right for the majority of games.

 

[Albert]

10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Albert, I know you like to be devil's advocate when presented with something posing as rigidly black and white, and maybe I have over simplified it. But I am talking to get us out of this current situation.

If you think we actually performed really well at any point this season, I'd think you need a refresher on the use of superlatives. Even winning, many fans were moaning about the poor performances. That is a fact, feel free to research the last 50 pages of this sub-forum and the Match Chat forum too. I know it's not comprehensive, but I cannot prove what has been said in other places and forums.

We are NOW detached from the 2015 form which took us to the top of the table, we are still 4th ffs! That is now forgotten to many, and if looking at the here and now, we need to change something. Yes, I believe positive intent is the first step in that change. There's nothing else that could work imo.

We performed professionally throughout much of the season, and early on in particular lost points in games where we were clearly the better side. I wouldn't say at any point this season though we have been particularly free flowing in attack, but you can perform well without putting on an attacking masterclass (as Chelsea under Mourinho prior to soiling their bed this season).

I agree that a more positive intent may help the situation, but it may well blow up in the side's face, particularly when we have built this season around a solid defensive structure. There are other methods out of such form, grinding out results from a solid defensive structure is one, not a pretty one, but one that works. The question there is what people prefer, attacking football and a genuine chance of a repeat of last season and 10-11's collapses, or going it ugly. 

I don't know, I just think you're not representing the risks of such an approach, risks that we have been burnt by recently. "Negative" play has risks too, but generally far less and more controlled. It's no coincidence that Nigel stopped the rot and saved us in 2010-11 that way, and would go on to use it effectively to bring us to the top half (with a smattering of attacking play, though less than prior). 

[England Ram]

There is a real problem when you tell a player that if a pass isn't on 'don't play it' as we become laboured and overly cautious.

There were a few 'risky' balls to play yesterday that could have led to a goal, we'll never know as they didn't get played.

I'm working in Leicester today surrounded by Leicester fans and besides them being in disbelief in their current form they are happy that despite playing crap, Marhez played an outlet ball that was risky as it could have easily lost possession, but led to a wonder goal. I've had to sit here all morning and say, That pass would never be played in our current team. Too risky, not in our ethos and we are not using our players who could latch on to an outlet in the right way.

Being positive and taking the calculated risk is vital to be a successful team, especially as the labored (I use the term correctly as it is not measured in my opinion) approach means we really struggle to break any team down. We've proved that time and again this season.

[Mostyn6]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

We performed professionally throughout much of the season, and early on in particular lost points in games where we were clearly the better side. I wouldn't say at any point this season though we have been particularly free flowing in attack, but you can perform well without putting on an attacking masterclass (as Chelsea under Mourinho prior to soiling their bed this season).

I agree that a more positive intent may help the situation, but it may well blow up in the side's face, particularly when we have built this season around a solid defensive structure. There are other methods out of such form, grinding out results from a solid defensive structure is one, not a pretty one, but one that works. The question there is what people prefer, attacking football and a genuine chance of a repeat of last season and 10-11's collapses, or going it ugly. 

I don't know, I just think you're not representing the risks of such an approach, risks that we have been burnt by recently. "Negative" play has risks too, but generally far less and more controlled. It's no coincidence that Nigel stopped the rot and saved us in 2010-11 that way, and would go on to use it effectively to bring us to the top half (with a smattering of attacking play, though less than prior). 

I would say the risks to negative play don't need representing as they are on display for all to see. We have erratic defenders who make poor decisions. I would hope that our positivity, if increased, would have that effect on other teams, where there midfield drop deeper to protect the defence and remove their own positivity.

Basically, if two teams went toe-to-toe, how many teams SHOULD be able to out do us on an attack fest...? NONE.

[Half fan]

Given how 'The Derby Way' is nearly as opaque and baffling a statement as Cameron's 'EU Deal', would it not add clarity and inspiration if Mel changed all the signage to read 'The Leicester Way'?

[Ramms]

There used to be a sign in the BBG changing room that said something along the lines of The biggest crime in football is to give the ball to the opposition.

So the theory of keeping possession  has been around for quite a long time.

I don't think we need to make risky passes (like Keogh tried last night across the back line which got intercepted) I think we need to be more positive in our movement off the ball to make angles for the player with the ball. Too often we have the ball in the opposition half  but have to go backwards because our players aren't making those angles. 

[trevor1946]

Oh dear mostyn 6 babbling on again,My first lessons from Derby county was build from the back,have a strong spine,

If the other team doesn't score you don't lose When teams go for a winner ,and lose their shape,that's normally when they concede ,Maclarens tactics,worked with a squad assembled over 3 years on a small budget,with a brilliant team spirit

A good team takes time,and three players in the right positions can make the difference between good and exceptional.

The one that annoys me is passing along the back line,allowing their defence to get organized,  

We have playmakers use them,,

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, trevor1946 said:

Oh dear mostyn 6 babbling on again,My first lessons from Derby county was build from the back,have a strong spine,

If the other team doesn't score you don't lose When teams go for a winner ,and lose their shape,that's normally when they concede ,Maclarens tactics,worked with a squad assembled over 3 years on a small budget,with a brilliant team spirit

A good team takes time,and three players in the right positions can make the difference between good and exceptional.

The one that annoys me is passing along the back line,allowing their defence to get organized,  

We have playmakers use them,,

well, build from the back doe not mean play with no purpose. Sorry my babbling confused your senile owd brain.

Yes, build from the back, but that means recruitment and making sure your defence are capable! Not let them have the football for 90 minutes! hahahaha

[TheDeadlySaul]

Sort of agree with this. Preston were playing for the draw last night and I was annoyed that Clement really didn't change much. Why not take off a midfielder and play 2 up top to add to our attack? Why not push our defence higher up so we could start the attacks quicker? But we stuck with the slow cautious football that wasn't working. 

You have got to take risks in football to win games, yes it can backfire like Forest at home last season, but 3 points is a hell of a lot better than 1, especially in a tight promotion battle. 

[paintingstandsatderby]

Great post.  Absolutely bang on in my opinion!

 

[r_wilcockson]

2 hours ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

Sort of agree with this. Preston were playing for the draw last night and I was annoyed that Clement really didn't change much. Why not take off a midfielder and play 2 up top to add to our attack? Why not push our defence higher up so we could start the attacks quicker? But we stuck with the slow cautious football that wasn't working. 

You have got to take risks in football to win games, yes it can backfire like Forest at home last season, but 3 points is a hell of a lot better than 1, especially in a tight promotion battle. 

I think he's picked this up from the Boro game. He came out there and said he shouldn't have gone for it and should have played safe for the point rather than change the shape, go for the win and get picked off. Was this also the last time we saw Weimann? Coincidence?