The Wristslasher Thread

[toddy]

5 minutes ago, rammieib said:

People are not talking about first or second, we're talking about top two or not top two. I'm sure everyone will take top two if offered, it's just what I've seen recently despite the results I'm not convinced is good enough for top two when we can see obvious weaknesses.

What weaknesses?

Boro were better than us today, but its not the end of our season, we are still 2nd. 

[rammieib]

1. A static midfield with no runners. The middle three are all ball playing midfielders, very few go and support Martin. Clement said we looked comfortable in the second half. Yes of course we did, but we never looked like scoring. 

2. Russell and Weimann have no end product. Ince goes missing. Our wingers are not good enough or consistent enough. Ince should be, he has been there and done it for Blackpool but the others are simply not delivering enough. 

3. Martin is in poor form. As well as being a pedantic child at times, his touch and ability is deserting him. He (we) are predictable and he isn't giving us enough. In his defence, he has very little around him or close enough to him. This is why I am so frustrated that Bent isn't given more chance to play with him.

Clement wanted to create more today and he has admitted he got it wrong, but why not bring Bent on and drop Martin deeper. Birmingham this year, Wigan away last season, they showed Bent and Martin can work together but Clement doesn't think so.

 

[SillyBilly]

Boro are a very strong side so I'm not too concerned about today, it just confirms we're probably battling the likes of Hull than we are Boro.

I wouldn't be too critical of Martin because as far as I can see it, he is getting no service whatsover. He is a great finisher, like Bent actually, but starve the pair of them of service and they'll not score.

The balance of the overall attack doesn't look too convincing at present. I am really disappointed in Weimann, for the amount he cost he should be delivering more. Russell needs to find some form too. I am confident we're top 3 material judging by what we have seen of other teams, question is whether we have enough to nick 2nd without strengthening.

 

[mozza]

 

We ain't doing very well this year , conceding goals ,  not won , not scored , no points ..

[Gritstone Ram]

I'm a bit disappointed with the Weimann sub for Butterfield apart from that grant made a couple of good saves and that was it. Yeah boro are a good side but apart from giving them two goals on a plate we were ok.

[mozza]

Just now, Gritters said:

I'm a bit disappointed with the Weimann sub for Butterfield apart from that grant made a couple of good saves and that was it. Yeah boro are a good side but apart from giving them two goals on a plate we were ok.

 

Steady on Gritters , there's a bit of positivity in your post , not wanted in this thread ..

[plymouthram]

3 hours ago, Kernow said:

Can we contain all knee-jerk, ridiculous reactions to this thread please because honestly I really cannot be ****** to read them.

Some of the comments on matchday thread were embarrassing. The goal suddenly sent us from playing well and earning a good point to an absolute shambles and a catastrophe of a performance.

Some of the brain-dead comments included "we are not good enough for promotion", "sell Martin now" and saying we haven't played well in a game for god knows how long.

Seriously, it shows how we aren't used to losing if this is the reaction to Boro beating us. We weren't poor, they were just better. Get over it, 22 games to go and I'm still confident we will be there at the end.

When Boro have injuries, bad form, no luck and other teams playing really well against them, I am sure their fans will moan and get negative as well. I am over the moon on how we are performing this season, still one of the highest goal scorers, still conceded the 2nd least goals and only lost 3 league games. Got to agree with you Kernow, but some fans are wanting us to win every match in what is got to be the toughest Division in Europe. I am confident that we will be promoted this season, only long term bad luck, injuries would prevent us.        COYR 

[rammieib]

18 minutes ago, Gritters said:

I'm a bit disappointed with the Weimann sub for Butterfield apart from that grant made a couple of good saves and that was it. Yeah boro are a good side but apart from giving them two goals on a plate we were ok.

Sarcasm or serious post?

[Gritstone Ram]

2 minutes ago, rammieib said:

Sarcasm or serious post?

Serious. First half we found our feet and ended quite strong. Second half if we hadn't gifted them two goals we contained them quite well. Our main downfall was we didn't offer much up front in the second half.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

1. A static midfield with no runners. The middle three are all ball playing midfielders, very few go and support Martin. Clement said we looked comfortable in the second half. Yes of course we did, but we never looked like scoring. 

2. Russell and Weimann have no end product. Ince goes missing. Our wingers are not good enough or consistent enough. Ince should be, he has been there and done it for Blackpool but the others are simply not delivering enough. 

3. Martin is in poor form. As well as being a pedantic child at times, his touch and ability is deserting him. He (we) are predictable and he isn't giving us enough. In his defence, he has very little around him or close enough to him. This is why I am so frustrated that Bent isn't given more chance to play with him.

Clement wanted to create more today and he has admitted he got it wrong, but why not bring Bent on and drop Martin deeper. Birmingham this year, Wigan away last season, they showed Bent and Martin can work together but Clement doesn't think so.

 

This! 

Pretty much sums up what has been spread over 2 or 3 threads.

We're not in a crisis obviously. We shouldn't even be giving up on coming first. Let's say Boro have won that game in hand. 7 points. That's it. They'll drop plenty of points. The job has got harder but we should rally and just focus on winning matches. We'll get another chance to catch them. Maybe not many. But we will. 

But to improve we do have to look if the midfield balance could be slightly tipped the attacking way a touch. Martin is too many yards away.

Are the wingers providing options? Certainly not for Warnock who has to go in field or backwards. He's been brilliant the way he's avoided going backwards and still found a good pass. But the wingers are selfish. They want to jump straight to the sex before the foreplay. They don't help the midfield build. They want glory and two of them are basically not part of the philosophy. Ince, when he gets going, is. 

It's all leaving a lot of work for the midfield, Cyrus and Warnock to play all three phases of the attack.  Butterfield has even gone wide and shown wingers how to eat ground and find a white shirt. 

It frustrates Martin, like today, and he's no good when he starts losing his battles. 

Sounds like a crisis now! But that's being really critical of us at our worst in moments of a very good half season. 

Think Boro showed us our weakness. Was like looking in a mirror today. Only where we have wingers unable to stamp their influence, Boro had clever team players, inviting other players to come and play. Supporting those players in return. 

[PistoldPete2]

19 minutes ago, Gritters said:

Serious. First half we found our feet and ended quite strong. Second half if we hadn't gifted them two goals we contained them quite well. Our main downfall was we didn't offer much up front in the second half.

Now I don't want to slash both my wrists but gifting two goals today and two against leeds sounds a bit like a problem. 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Gritters said:

Serious. First half we found our feet and ended quite strong. Second half if we hadn't gifted them two goals we contained them quite well. Our main downfall was we didn't offer much up front in the second half.

So we lose two nil. Completely outplayed, two brilliant saves by Grant (although I expect any goaly to save them), have one shot on goal but yet it's ok?

Wow, is that the same as saying that ignore Zamoras goal Wembley was good or ignore Olivieras goal, we were ok at Forest. What tosh - football is about scoring goals and winning games, you can't exclude that!!!

[Papahet]

How much did George Friend cost? What a steal Boro got there.

So disappointed in certain players at the mintue, I won't name them as I'll only get quoted by the usual.

Keogh, Shackell and Butterfield take a bow lads despite the result.

[eddie]

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

People are not talking about first or second, we're talking about top two or not top two. I'm sure everyone will take top two if offered, it's just what I've seen recently despite the results I'm not convinced is good enough for top two when we can see obvious weaknesses.

You cannot make a judgement call on whether a side is 'top two' material without actually comparing them to the other sides in the equation. It's clear from the points that we have accumulated from the other contenders and how we have performed against them, together with the ponts accumulated against the rest of the league, that we have performed at a level below Boro but at least on a par - and probably superior - to everybody else.

It's nothing to do with 'obvious weaknesses' - only weaknesses in comparison to others.

 

[rammieib]

21 minutes ago, eddie said:

You cannot make a judgement call on whether a side is 'top two' material without actually comparing them to the other sides in the equation. It's clear from the points that we have accumulated from the other contenders and how we have performed against them, together with the ponts accumulated against the rest of the league, that we have performed at a level below Boro but at least on a par - and probably superior - to everybody else.

It's nothing to do with 'obvious weaknesses' - only weaknesses in comparison to others.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this but based on recent performances we either need the current personnel to play differently (better) or we change the personnel because I fear we are not good enough.

We might have beaten Hull but current performance levels I say they are better.

Two home games coming up which could help us.

[eddie]

6 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this but based on recent performances we either need the current personnel to play differently (better) or we change the personnel because I fear we are not good enough.

We might have beaten Hull but current performance levels I say they are better.

Two home games coming up which could help us.

Really?

Hull were utterly appalling yesterday, and only contrived to win because QPR were even worse. Also they have lost to both Preston and Rotherham in the last 2 weeks - hardly the mark of a quality side. If you honestly think that Derby have performed worse than that, there's little hope for you.

[tomsdubs]

Anyone who watched that Hull game live and thought we played really well and had to beat a quality team are mugging themselves off. I've watched 3 Hull games in their entirety this season and they are not a good side by any stretch. They are so pedestrian going forward it's ridiculous. We did a job on them and luckily Butterfield was on form. The teams at the top of this division are the solid back four teams and we are one of them. The only team that looks effective and clinical going forward that I've seen this season is Middlesbrough. If the Bournemouth of last season were still in this league they'd be pissing it no sweat. If the free flowing Schteve side was still in the groove we'd be putting away 4-5 every game. I've been shocked at the lack of quality this season down here, if we can't go up this season we never will.

Look at the Bristol game, have you ever seen a stranger 4-0 game? Ince got a hat trick and he barely had to try, they even did little oles for him to waltz through for his 1st goal. The frustration I feel is that we have another 20% in the tank at all times this season, I keep waiting to shift up a gear and it doesn't happen. We keep making the same poor decisions in certain areas, keep passing sideways and back and letting teams get their banks of 4 back in place. Previous seasons we just seemed to turn teams, get in between the lines and create havoc.

Don't get me wrong we've done great this season but I want us to go up and you can't ignore issues. We've seen one collapse already. I'm pleased that Paul is honest and alludes to seeing the same issues in his interviews. You can tell he knows there's more there, hopefully we can really gel over the next couple of months and see this season out and get the job done. One thing we do know is we have character and always respond to defeats so that's good. Two home games now, lets put a couple of wins together and maintain.

[rammieib]

7 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

Anyone who watched that Hull game live and thought we played really well and had to beat a quality team are mugging themselves off. I've watched 3 Hull games in their entirety this season and they are not a good side by any stretch. They are so pedestrian going forward it's ridiculous. We did a job on them and luckily Butterfield was on form. The teams at the top of this division are the solid back four teams and we are one of them. The only team that looks effective and clinical going forward that I've seen this season is Middlesbrough. If the Bournemouth of last season were still in this league they'd be pissing it no sweat. If the free flowing Schteve side was still in the groove we'd be putting away 4-5 every game. I've been shocked at the lack of quality this season down here, if we can't go up this season we never will.

Look at the Bristol game, have you ever seen a stranger 4-0 game? Ince got a hat trick and he barely had to try, they even did little oles for him to waltz through for his 1st goal. The frustration I feel is that we have another 20% in the tank at all times this season, I keep waiting to shift up a gear and it doesn't happen. We keep making the same poor decisions in certain areas, keep passing sideways and back and letting teams get their banks of 4 back in place. Previous seasons we just seemed to turn teams, get in between the lines and create havoc.

Don't get me wrong we've done great this season but I want us to go up and you can't ignore issues. We've seen one collapse already. I'm pleased that Paul is honest and alludes to seeing the same issues in his interviews. You can tell he knows there's more there, hopefully we can really gel over the next couple of months and see this season out and get the job done. One thing we do know is we have character and always respond to defeats so that's good. Two home games now, lets put a couple of wins together and maintain.

If you keep thinking we have an extra 20% but we never achieve, maybe it's because we don't have that extra 20%?

[Dimmu]

I'm warming to the idea that we can't afford to play Ince on the wing. Especially when Martin is off form. Attacking-wise Ince looks like only one who could really make something happen and he goes missing on the wing.

And I'm really, really tired of Keogh's mistakes, eventhough he only made two huge ones yesterday. He has some good abilities, no doubt, but mistakes he does are always schoolboy stuff. Gets on my tits, badly so. Sometimes I wish his distribution and blocking abilities weren't so good, it would be easy to drop him.

Sorry off topic with lots off positivism, but is there anything better than early Sunday wristslash? Worth a habit?