Kernow Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said: Agree. It'll be 2 from the current top 4. I don't think any teams last season were as consistent as the top 4 this season. The only team in the top 4 who I think will drop off will be Brighton. That's not because I don't think they belong there, the league doesn't lie. But they just conceed too many goals, it's exactly how we were over the last two seasons. The key to automatics is a solid defence. They've still yet to win a game by more than a goal. It's great that they can grind out wins and know how to avoid defeat, but the fact they haven't won by 2 goals yet suggest their games are all relatively close, and when they eventually lose it'll be interesting to see how they respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 There is always a late run from someone and someone else has a crisis. .. way to early. what I like about us now is that with PC we have a chance to switch things around tactically / set up wise and we have a better squad. Old hands who have been there before, like Shackle, Johnson and Warnock will play a huge part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 15 minutes ago, jagerbob said: It will be interesting. Whilst Brighton dont appear to have the squad depth of the other 3, they are talking about spending in January, and any more loans like Wilson from Man Utd and they will be a real threat. The confidence you get from 20 unbeaten does wonders. Even if they loose the odd game here and there, I cant seem them collapsing like we did last season. it will be interesting with March out for the season how they fair, and Dunk will also be suspended for a couple after the sending off at QPR. I think if Brighton supporters are honest they'd probably agree that they don't think they've currently got enough to hold down an automatic. I'm sure most of us feel that way last season because our defence wasn't strong enough, so there was no surprise when it did fall away. 22 minutes ago, Kernow said: They've still yet to win a game by more than a goal. It's great that they can grind out wins and know how to avoid defeat, but the fact they haven't won by 2 goals yet suggest their games are all relatively close, and when they eventually lose it'll be interesting to see how they respond. That's the thing right there! They are unaware of how they'll respond to a loss! Sometimes being unbeaten can be a mental hindrance. It's like you're constantly waiting for it to happen and wondering what the impact will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 7 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said: That's the thing right there! They are unaware of how they'll respond to a loss! Sometimes being unbeaten can be a mental hindrance. It's like you're constantly waiting for it to happen and wondering what the impact will be. They've already won more games in 21 games of this season than they did in 46 of last. Regardless of if they go up or not they're having a great season. I expect them to remain in the top 6 for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 4 hours ago, MuespachRam said: I seem to be repeating myself............ As I said, anyone can still go up. Yep, Only a half wit would think Forest are capable of going up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, Kernow said: They've already won more games in 21 games of this season than they did in 46 of last. Regardless of if they go up or not they're having a great season. I expect them to remain in the top 6 for the rest of the season. Yep they'll definitely make top 6 and I think if they are in playoffs they'll be favourites. All this sounds like i'm writing them off from getting automatics, clearly I can't be that disrespectful but I just think US, Hull, Borough and maybe Burnley are better equipped and experienced to get those top two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 4 hours ago, Wolfie said: Far too early to say. How can 6pts be too much to make up with 25 games and 75 points to play for. Maybe with 4-5 games left but 25?. You've said yourself that 2 weeks ago it was the top 5 & now it's the top 4 - doesn't that show you how quickly things can change as teams come in and out of form. We were 5 points clear at the top last season and somehow finished 8th for goodness sake. The reason is there are only 4 teams showing any consistency and it is week in week out. That's why Burnley have now dropped off and are currently 6pts off Hull and us. Even looking at this point last season there were not 4 teams showing so much consistency as this season, also at this point last season 3 of the top 7 actually went up, where as this season it does look like 4 have now broken away. Its only 6 pts but as we have find out even with our great run, trying to make only a couple of points to get into the top 2 to difficult enough. Remember injuries and not being to defend cost us any consistency last March to May - We now have a larger stronger squad, we now have arguably the best CB's in the championship and above all else we have consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 15 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said: Yep they'll definitely make top 6 and I think if they are in playoffs they'll be favourites. All this sounds like i'm writing them off from getting automatics, clearly I can't be that disrespectful but I just think US, Hull, Borough and maybe Burnley are better equipped and experienced to get those top two! I agree that Brighton are clearly up there on merit, and to go nearly half the season unbeaten is a great achievement, but they're still most people's most likely team to drop off from the four. I think our depth and experience in terms of Championship promotion and PL appearances is a lot greater and stands us in good stead. The additions of Carson, Shackell, Johnson and Weimann all bring things to the squad we previously lacked. Boro are strong, still not conceding but scoring a few more, and Hull have a good side on paper. Burnley I'm not too sure about. On paper its okay. They went to the PL with the obvious intention to use the money to build and get better. Vokes isn't the same as he was 2 years ago and although Gray has been a good signing, he's not as good as Danny Ings two years ago. Think they'll also make the play-offs but unlikely to threaten the top 2 places too extensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 1 minute ago, super rams said: The reason is there are only 4 teams showing any consistency and it is week in week out. That's why Burnley have now dropped off and are currently 6pts off Hull and us. it does look like 4 have now broken away. Its only 6 pts but as we have find out even with our great run, trying to make only a couple of points to get into the top 2 to difficult enough. What a load of rubbish...! as I have said we have made up 5 points on Brighton in 100 minutes of football...so the thought that Burnley have dropped out of the race now is just ridiculous...we aren't even half way through the season.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: What a load of rubbish...! as I have said we have made up 5 points on Brighton in 100 minutes of football...so the thought that Burnley have dropped out of the race now is just ridiculous...we aren't even half way through the season.! You do need to take a moment to look who it is you're having this conversation with before allowing yourself to get too annoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 7 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: What a load of rubbish...! as I have said we have made up 5 points on Brighton in 100 minutes of football...so the thought that Burnley have dropped out of the race now is just ridiculous...we aren't even half way through the season.! Agree 6 points at this point of the season is nothing for Burnley to be concerned about. What they should be concerned about are the issues that have caused the 6 point gap and what the likelihood of those issues reoccurring. So for example last season we fell behind a few points after Xmas. The points were not the issue because there was enough points available to comfortably get back in position. The issue was was lost a key player and the reoccurrence wasn't dealt with as we didn't try and adjust things in the absence of the player. So that gap just kept getting bigger. This season we've addressed those issues, we've strengthened the squad and we have plenty of options available. Looking at Brighton they've gained 3 points out of a possible 9. I say they've gained rather than they've lost 6 because they were lucky to get more than 1. So they key thing for them is they need to address those issues, if they don't they'll not make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 If they are the same top 4 teams come January, Boro /Brighton/us and Hull - all do have financial backing [some more than others ] and all will be adding to their squads for that final push. We keep hearing from all camps that promotion is not a priority this season but that's the PR speel, Even MM intimated on the Sky interview last week that players are being identified for January 'not one because he might not be available, there will be few' - we know already that Burnley have spent more money in the championship this season than they did whilst in the prem - this is just to get back up there. All the clubs want this years promotion to the prem - as there is mega money available £5.14b over the next 3 seasons & that equates to around £99 million for the team that finishes bottom in May 2017 and £156 million to the winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Basically, all we've got to do is average at least 2 points a game and we don't have to worry about anyone else. History would show that there are only ever one or two teams who manage to do this over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I don't know why Brighton would complain about teams/fans showing them no respect, because it is by far their biggest weapon this season as teams don't look to find ways to stop them. If everyone knew Brighton were serious contenders, they probably wouldn't be doing as well as a fair few teams would have done everything to stop them playing - like feigning injuries, men behind the ball (sound famililar?). When teams just focus on their own game and pay little attention to Brighton's key strengths, then it's easier to pick up results as we found out during McClaren's first season. Brighton fans should welcome not receiving respect, they'd be mad not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I don't know why Brighton would complain about teams/fans showing them no respect, because it is by far their biggest weapon this season as teams don't look to find ways to stop them. If everyone knew Brighton were serious contenders, they probably wouldn't be doing as well as a fair few teams would have done everything to stop them playing - like feigning injuries, men behind the ball (sound famililar?). When teams just focus on their own game and pay little attention to Brighton's key strengths, then it's easier to pick up results as we found out during McClaren's first season. Brighton fans should welcome not receiving respect, they'd be mad not to. Nah I think maybe that was the case for the first 10 games. But since then they've been a scalp, everyone wants to be THAT TEAM that beats them first! Look how disappointed our players were to only take a point from the top team. It wasn't the point they were disappointed with, it was not being THAT TEAM and knowing that that chance has passed us because when we do play them again they would have already lost! I think the fact that teams want to beat them and not be happy with a point is in their favour. It's not a lack of respect that is doing it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloughandtaylor Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 24 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: What a load of rubbish...! as I have said we have made up 5 points on Brighton in 100 minutes of football...so the thought that Burnley have dropped out of the race now is just ridiculous...we aren't even half way through the season.! Everybody was saying at the beginning of the month its any 2 from 5 as Cardiff in 6th place were 5 pts off Burnley. Burnley are now 8 pts off the automatic and that is 3 games. that's 3 games that Boro or Brighton must lose ..........not impossible granted but with the consistency they are both having at this moment its highly unlikely. 8 pts is a lot to make up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 10 minutes ago, Jean Antoine Tessier said: Nah I think maybe that was the case for the first 10 games. But since then they've been a scalp, everyone wants to be THAT TEAM that beats them first! Look how disappointed our players were to only take a point from the top team. It wasn't the point they were disappointed with, it was not being THAT TEAM and knowing that that chance has passed us because when we do play them again they would have already lost! I think the fact that teams want to beat them and not be happy with a point is in their favour. It's not a lack of respect that is doing it for them. There is a difference between wanting to be that team to beat them, and being smart enough enough to know their strengths and counter them. Wanting to beat them so badly can result in too much attacking, leaving gaps at the back and being exploited. I can't envisage a team thinking 'We're desperate to be the first team to beat Brighton, so let's play the whole game by feigning injuries, parked in-front of our goal and try to do em on a set-piece!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 9 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: There is a difference between wanting to be that team to beat them, and being smart enough enough to know their strengths and counter them. Wanting to beat them so badly can result in too much attacking, leaving gaps at the back and being exploited. I can't envisage a team thinking 'We're desperate to be the first team to beat Brighton, so let's play the whole game by feigning injuries, parked in-front of our goal and try to do em on a set-piece!' What I said and what I'm now going to paraphrase is that because teams want to beat them it's in Brighton's favour. The games are more open. As opposed to when they play us, who have already been shown are beatable teams are happier to get a point. The intelligence of the opposition is irrelevant as we play the same teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 15 minutes ago, super rams said: Everybody was saying at the beginning of the month its any 2 from 5 as Cardiff in 6th place were 5 pts off Burnley. Burnley are now 8 pts off the automatic and that is 3 games. that's 3 games that Boro or Brighton must lose ..........not impossible granted but with the consistency they are both having at this moment its highly unlikely. 8 pts is a lot to make up! Anyone who was saying at the beginning of the month that it was any 2 from 5 were completely stupid too....of course it isn't going to be. If we were 8 points off automatic promotion would you honestly think it was over?????? There are 25 games to go.... that is 75 points...I promise you one thing, in those 25 games, Burnley, Hull, Derby, Brighton,Boro QPR, Rotherham, Forest, Wednesday, Cardiff, Fulham etc etc etc will ALL lose games you don't expect them to lose and win games you don't expect them to win... There are many many twists and turns to come yet and to say it is over for Burnley is just completely and utterly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm not writing Burnley off yet, but I'm struggling to see anyone beyond them making a fist for automatic promotion. Ipswich are a decent side it appears, but not automatic decent. You just know that there will be two/three teams hitting mid 80s at least this season. So for anyone beyond Burnley, it's looking like a minimum of 50+ points from the last 25 matches. I don't see anyone capable of doing that, especially not someone like Cardiff who concedes so many goals or Sheffield Wed who struggle on their travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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