Chris Evans

[davenportram]

This isn't really a thread about what managers spent over 3 or 1 transfer window. It's about what's going on in the directors box, office, whatever.

They've broken a working philosophy by buying players for a different kind of philosophy.

In 5 games, we've seen moments of magic. But overall the majority of the time played makes us look incompatible. Which is an amazing achievement considering the core of the squad is absolutely compatible and can dazzle the eyes of any supporter when played together.

 

I agree its not a thread about spending, I highlighted some statements I found very silly, and replied to a direct question. Wont mention it again.

 

[Ramarena]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most sensible thing I've seen you post.

[blackNwhites]

I agree its not a thread about spending, I highlighted some statements I found very silly, and replied to a direct question. Wont mention it again.

 

Wasn't really directed at you in particular, just that I've been out for a meal and come back to a 'let's judge Clement after a few more games' thread. Just to clarify for everyone, this is about Chris Evans or on a broader scale, the other main players, Sam Rush and Mel Morriss.

I started it after complaining to friends yesterday that I felt Clement wasn't up to the job, the performance at times was appalling and his interview after the game was absolutely terrible. So I came home from Derby thinking about it in the car and it all came down to signings for me, and apart from some great loans that have been turned permanent, our signings have been quite poor. All since Chris Evans came in. I believe he signed the current scout network? Sure I remember an interview of him discussing who had come in.

For me, it's impossible for Clement to assess the squad as well as the 7 or so signings we've made in 6 weeks before the season started. If he himself said that, he's incredibly naive. Chris Evans, Same Rush and Mel Morriss should be asking themselves why were they in such a rush to get new players in? Fair play, get Ince in, he showed what he's capable of when Christie was the man supporting him.

As for the rest, yeah, get Carson and Shackell in. They are direct replacements for the roles they've taken. The other lot, absolutely devoid of sense. 

Because of this rushing about signing players willy nilly, Clement's been dealt a tough hand.

If he's really got 3 years to gain promotion, fair enough, but it makes the signings look even more baffling considering the outlay. Just far too many dead weights.

 

[RamNut]

CE has signed a lot of players in less than two years.....

carson, roos, mitchell, baird, christie, ssewankambo, shotton, whitbread, shackell, pearce, albentosa, naylor, warnock, calero, santos, bunjaku, koblenz, mcdonald, thorne, ince, dawkins, bent, weimann.......and counting.

[Alph]

The argument that players don't fit our system...

Clement was talking about playing a different system every 2 minutes and everyone was loving that. If he planned on going with that diamond then with 2 up Bent and Weimann would fit. 

I don't mind having Bent knocking around. He's handy in certain situations to come off the bench. Weimann looks a bit of a waste of skin out wide. Need to forget that he's a wide option

[trevor1946]

If i say knowt it annoys some people,Must be doing summat right.

I wrote a reply and it turned out to be a long one,and it went missing of my screen,I tried to retrieve it.,to no availd .

I pressed the reply button by mistake,got fed up and went back to sleep

[Gypsy Ram]

If i say knowt it annoys some people,Must be doing summat right.

I wrote a reply and it turned out to be a long one,and it went missing of my screen,I tried to retrieve it.,to no availd .

I pressed the reply button by mistake,got fed up and went back to sleep

CTR+Z next time.

[RamNut]

If i say knowt it annoys some people,Must be doing summat right.

I wrote a reply and it turned out to be a long one,and it went missing of my screen,I tried to retrieve it.,to no availd .

I pressed the reply button by mistake,got fed up and went back to sleep

never mind it was hilarious.

cheered me up no end.

[sage]

The argument that players don't fit our system...

Clement was talking about playing a different system every 2 minutes and everyone was loving that. If he planned on going with that diamond then with 2 up Bent and Weimann would fit. 

I don't mind having Bent knocking around. He's handy in certain situations to come off the bench. Weimann looks a bit of a waste of skin out wide. Need to forget that he's a wide option

I would't have minded us signing Weimann so much if we hadn't signed Bent. 

[CornwallRam]

I think the problem is the system. Clement and Evans might both be brilliant individuals, but the bloke who picks the team must be the same person who makes the transfer decisions. Scouts can help, but it has to be the manager who starts and finishes the recruitment process. Separating the two roles out is folly because you end up signing players who just don't fit. This leads to aggrieved players moping around and destroys morale. It also leads to pressure to pick the expensive players, even if the head coach knows that it's not the right thing to do.

The whole reasoning behind this is to free the 'manager' up to spend more time coaching. Yet, senior professional players have been coached for over a decade, often by twenty or more highly qualified individuals. How much can coaching really improve them? Is Clement really going to make Chris Martin run faster, or Craig Forsyth stop passing to the opposition, or  Tom Ince tackling like a dinner lady? Even if it's possible - why can't any member of the coaching staff do it? Far better for the manager to concentrate on tactics, motivation and recruitment to me.

[davenportram]

Evans's role is to provide names of players who are available/might be available in each position and then discuss with the manager who he wants and with the CEO the budget. If theres noone on the list that Clement wants in a posiiton Evans wont sign him, likewise if Evans cant get the man within the budget thenwe wonot sign them.

This division of labour is great - the manager decides who we sign but doesnt have to go round talking to agents, clubs etc...

[G STAR RAM]

it was a week between PC joining and the first announcements. Plenty of time to pull out of a deal, or find a way of not completing.

PC may have signed on the dotted line on 1 June but DCFC had been speaking to him long before that.

My guess is that his input into matters would have started before 1 June.

[sage]

I think the problem is the system. Clement and Evans might both be brilliant individuals, but the bloke who picks the team must be the same person who makes the transfer decisions. Scouts can help, but it has to be the manager who starts and finishes the recruitment process. Separating the two roles out is folly because you end up signing players who just don't fit. This leads to aggrieved players moping around and destroys morale. It also leads to pressure to pick the expensive players, even if the head coach knows that it's not the right thing to do.

The whole reasoning behind this is to free the 'manager' up to spend more time coaching. Yet, senior professional players have been coached for over a decade, often by twenty or more highly qualified individuals. How much can coaching really improve them? Is Clement really going to make Chris Martin run faster, or Craig Forsyth stop passing to the opposition, or  Tom Ince tackling like a dinner lady? Even if it's possible - why can't any member of the coaching staff do it? Far better for the manager to concentrate on tactics, motivation and recruitment to me.

Transfers are far more complicated now than 20 years ago. That's why the new system has come in at most clubs. 

[Alph]

I would't have minded us signing Weimann so much if we hadn't signed Bent. 

You prefer Weimann? 

I prefer Bent. If you get the ball in the box he gets goals. I'm not sure how you use Weimann. He looks good at chasing the ball? 

Is he one of those that gets rated because he works hard? 

[sage]

You prefer Weimann? 

I prefer Bent. If you get the ball in the box he gets goals. I'm not sure how you use Weimann. He looks good at chasing the ball? 

Is he one of those that gets rated because he works hard? 

I didn't say I preferred him. Just referencing my controversial Weimann thread. 

There isn't much between them, as they have different skill sets.

No need for both of them. At their wages.  

[CornwallRam]

Transfers are far more complicated now than 20 years ago. That's why the new system has come in at most clubs. 

Why?

[sage]

Why?

Agents. Social media. More complicated contracts. Wider markets. Lawyers.

[CornwallRam]

Agents. Social media. More complicated contracts. Wider markets. Lawyers.

Agents and lawyers were around twenty years ago. I'm not sure how a more complicated contract makes much difference other than requiring the legal team to be switched on. Wider markets? With better access to information and faster travel it's easier to cover that market so the wider choice should just make it simpler to find the right player.

I'm also not sure how social media makes a difference. It might be harder to keep a transfer secret, but does that really make it more complicated?

I'd argue that transfers are the same as they've always been, all it takes is money. Even if we scout in the Vanarama National League and find a new Kevin Hector, the only reason he'd leave Bradford Park Avenue for Derby County would be money...exactly the same as it was in 1966. 

I'm not saying that the manager should sort out the contractual stuff - that's best left the money and legal men, but the manager needs to decide where to strengthen, decide (with the help of his scouts and within a budget set by the chairman) which players he would like and have the very final say on the signature.

In my opinion, this is not currently happening at DCFC. The summer signings were not instigated by Clement. He may have had some say, but he did not spend the previous few months tracking Alex Pearce and Chris Baird during his tea breaks from setting out the cones for Ronaldo to dribble around. Hopefully, that was just a function of not having a head coach in place whilst needing not to get left behind in the transfer market. If Clement is going to work out, from now on, the transfers must all be his 'babies'.

[sage]

1. ) Agents and lawyers were around twenty years ago. I'm not sure how a more complicated contract makes much difference other than requiring the legal team to be switched on. Wider markets? With better access to information and faster travel it's easier to cover that market so the wider choice should just make it simpler to find the right player.

2.) I'm also not sure how social media makes a difference. It might be harder to keep a transfer secret, but does that really make it more complicated?

3.) I'd argue that transfers are the same as they've always been, all it takes is money. Even if we scout in the Vanarama National League and find a new Kevin Hector, the only reason he'd leave Bradford Park Avenue for Derby County would be money...exactly the same as it was in 1966. 

4.) I'm not saying that the manager should sort out the contractual stuff - that's best left the money and legal men, but the manager needs to decide where to strengthen, decide (with the help of his scouts and within a budget set by the chairman) which players he would like and have the very final say on the signature.

5.) In my opinion, this is not currently happening at DCFC. The summer signings were not instigated by Clement. He may have had some say, but he did not spend the previous few months tracking Alex Pearce and Chris Baird during his tea breaks from setting out the cones for Ronaldo to dribble around. Hopefully, that was just a function of not having a head coach in place whilst needing not to get left behind in the transfer market. If Clement is going to work out, from now on, the transfers must all be his 'babies'.

1, Are you seriously suggesting that agents aren't more powerful than they were 20 years ago and contracts aren't more complicated? escape clauses, Bosmans, loyalty clauses,etc

2,  How can not keeping interest in a player secret not make it more complicated? People have mobile phones taking pictures and videos, twittter and forums like this mean transfers are rarely out of the blue. Therefore other teams can usurp you and existing players can get unsettled by news of a possible replacement whether we sign them or not

3. Transfers aren't the same due to reasons 1 and 2

4, There is nothing to suggest that Clement hasn't got the final say on transfers that were initiated after his arrival.

5, See above... and stopping an incoming transfer that is 80% complete in your first week and being lumped with players you don't want now are two completely different things.

[CornwallRam]

1, Are you seriously suggesting that agents aren't more powerful than they were 20 years ago and contracts aren't more complicated? escape clauses, Bosmans, loyalty clauses,etc

2,  How can not keeping interest in a player secret not make it more complicated? People have mobile phones taking pictures and videos, twittter and forums like this mean transfers are rarely out of the blue. Therefore other teams can usurp you and existing players can get unsettled by news of a possible replacement whether we sign them or not

3. Transfers aren't the same due to reasons 1 and 2

4, There is nothing to suggest that Clement hasn't got the final say on transfers that were initiated after his arrival.

5, See above... and stopping an incoming transfer that is 80% complete in your first week and being lumped with players you don't want now are two completely different things.

Your argument seems to be that modern transfers are too complicated for a manger to handle. If the manager had to do everything himself, then yes, you might have a point. However, do you seriously believe that Clough or Mackay or Even Smith or Cox completed the entire process without help?

Clubs now have more money to employ specialists to get the contractual details right, so that doesn't add anything to the manager's workload.

It is a choice to reduce the manager's involvement in transfers, not a necessity.