Burton (Something) v Derby County

[uttoxram75]

I might be mistaken, but perhaps some of the negativity comes from the fact that Christie and Shotts are black?  A few of you may recall I had the very same concerns for Dawks last season, and at the time one of the arguments put up (which made me smile at the time) was that it couldn't be colour prejudice because look how much Christie was loved. Despite the protestations at that time, I remain concerned that we still have a few amongst our fan base who will embrace certain players whilst they are on their A game. I do so hope Incey can hit the back of the net soon, otherwise we might start reading on Twitter how he is lazy, arrogant, laid back, money grabbing, etc., etc.  If I upset anybody, so sorry.  If I get some to examine their consciences, good. If it helps any of us to tackle actual racism when we see (or feel it) on the terraces, fantastic. 

Good win for the TEAM today I thought. 

While there may well be racists amongst Derby's 30,000 plus attending fan base I don't think its evident at the match other than the occasional isolated individual outburst.

The respect that Rams fans have for Chrissy Powell, Darryl Powell and Darren Moore, to name just three, tends to blow your tenuous theory out the water.

There's plenty of criticism for white players so to single out the black lads who get it is a bit over the top.

 Some one once criticised Jake ffs!

Hopefully we've moved on from the type of Chelsea fans who dominated the England support in the 1980's who didn't count goals scored by black players.

 

 

 

 

[uttoxram75]

While there may well be racists amongst Derby's 30,000 plus attending fan base I don't think its evident at the match other than the occasional isolated individual outburst.

The respect that Rams fans have for Chrissy Powell, Darryl Powell and Darren Moore, to name just three, tends to blow your tenuous theory out the water.

There's plenty of criticism for white players so to single out the black lads who get it is a bit over the top.

 Some one once criticised Jake ffs!

Hopefully we've moved on from the type of Chelsea fans who dominated the England support in the 1980's who didn't count goals scored by black players.

 

 

 

 

Oh, btw, for every Ryan Shotton or Cyrus Christie criticism i'll raise you an Andre Wisdom worship...

[Leon the ram 2009]

Bent's goal,nice finish

[needles]

 

 Some one once criticised Jake ffs!

Find them, peel them, dip them in salt, burn them. 

[Leon the ram 2009]

that away strip looks lovely IMO

[Ambitious]

Mine are very boring.

I would basically give everyone 6/10 except for Thorne who got a 7.5, Russell and Shackell 7, and probably 7 for Will and Dawkins when they came on. I don't think that anybody performed poorly. Several had spells where they weren't as dominant as they would want to be, but invariably they all picked their games up when they needed to.

It was a very competent collective performance, and by and large the system was the winner without anyone standing out head and shoulders above - or below - the rest. I'm a strong believer in it being a team game, and people can do their jobs very well without actually having to look outrageously good. If enough do their jobs well enough, then the overall result will be positive.

Like today.

Good man, Eddie! 

You think that will be the way we set up against Bolton then? 

[Shang]

Just watched the highlights on Rams Player. Seems like every pass beats 2-3 players and takes them out the game. Feel really sorry for Ince, gets himself into position and gets the efforts on goal but just hasn't scored one yet. I don't think he's used to scoring goals from a number 10 position, more of curler into the top corner kinda guy.

[eddie]

Good man, Eddie! 

You think that will be the way we set up against Bolton then? 

No idea.

Neil Lennon will expect it, perhaps, because he was there yesterday. It seems a 'safe' option for the first away game.

[hughesy 1984]

If Shotton was called Shackell his ratings would turn from 4 to 8

if u think shotton was as good as shackell vs Burton, then u r clearly blind. I don't see that everyones issue is with people stating the obvious that shotton isn't good enough to be first choice, average back up option at best. 

[eddie]

if u think shotton was as good as shackell vs Burton, then u r clearly blind. I don't see that everyones issue is with people stating the obvious that shotton isn't good enough to be first choice, average back up option at best. 

The obvious thing in this thread is that not one person who claimed that Shotton was rubbish against Burton has been able to quantify those claims. NOT ONE.

All anyone can remember on the downside is that he allowed one ball to run under his foot under no pressure, and that he had to trot five yards to retrieve it. He won his headers, won his tackles, never misplaced a single pass (which is more than you can say for Shackell, who on one occasion passed the ball straight to a Burton player who ran through on goal - luckily the situation was rescued by Keogh).

Your justification (if that's what it is) is to claim that anyone who thinks that Shotton is as good as Shackell is 'clearly blind', but that is not the point. The purpose of this thread is/was to discuss Burton (Something) v Derby County.

[Pearl Ram]

Someone once criticised Jake FFS !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Who was it, I'll round up a posse.

[hughesy 1984]

not at all, I thought he looked slow on the ball, hesitant, played back instead of forwards far to often and never seemed to look confident on the ball.( against bafc) never mind in the championship. Definitely think he will be at best 4th choice cb this season. I was surprised by how good Baird was today tho, thought he played really well and controlled the game.

my explanation of why shotton had a poor game, posted 19 hours ago

[Rampage]

4-2-3-1 looks like a devastating combination of solid defence  but with lethal forwards, you can find yourself two nil down for no obvious reason other than lack of concentration against Derby.when we change formation you could find yourself shipping goals at intervals. If the forwards take their chances whilst we have two quality DCMs it would be very difficult to work out what to do next against us. the speed with which Thorne gave the ball to Bent, who promptly rammed it into the net bodes very well. When Bent looks like he is just ambling about upfront he does not look dangerous but give him a chance and you are in trouble.4-2-3-1 in away games for me and against Boro in the first half at home also.It may not be long before we are saying that Clement is basically too smart for this league.Always assuming that the players do what he says and stick to it. Karanka is always changing formation, even during the game. He has a similar pedigree to Clement.

[eddie]

my explanation of why shotton had a poor game, posted 19 hours ago

In other words, based upon nothing at all except for a preconceived opinion. His job is to do his job, not necessarily to 'look confident'. Shackell 'looked confident' throughout, yet very nearly gift-wrapped Burton with a goal with a hospital pass.

Shotton never missed a header, never missed a tackle, never misplaced a pass all match - but is it any surprise that he fails to 'look confident' when  both he and Christie have to carry half the crowd and most of the Twitterati on his back, just waiting for the opportunity to rip into him? 

You might as well have said "I don't like him, therefore he was rubbish". At least that would have been honest and not stunk of bullshit.

[Carl Sagan]

I'm just curious about the title of this thread. Do people have something against Burton Albion? Having listened to their exploits on Radio Derby since the mid-70s, I've always had a soft spot and think it's brilliant they're now up to League One (ie into the third division). Hope they continue their upward momentum and soon overtake the gumps who are fast going in the other direction.

[hughesy 1984]

In other words, based upon nothing at all except for a preconceived opinion. His job is to do his job, not necessarily to 'look confident'. Shackell 'looked confident' throughout, yet very nearly gift-wrapped Burton with a goal with a hospital pass.

Shotton never missed a header, never missed a tackle, never misplaced a pass all match - but is it any surprise that he fails to 'look confident' when  both he and Christie have to carry half the crowd and most of the Twitterati on his back, just waiting for the opportunity to rip into him? 

You might as well have said "I don't like him, therefore he was rubbish". At least that would have been honest and not stunk of bullshit.

I have nothing against either shotton or Christie, Christie was our best player at the start of last season and I think shotton is ok, played well when deployed at rb last season, don't believe he's good enough at cb for our club. I bet if your completely honest, either do you. I believe we have come along way since both players were signed, improvements signed I.e weimann, Baird, Ince, bent, shackell. So it just amazes me that people want us to be challenging to win the league, and want shotton and Christie in the starting 11. Especially after the way both played at the end of last season.

[SaintRam]

I have nothing against either shotton or Christie, Christie was our best player at the start of last season and I think shotton is ok, played well when deployed at rb last season, don't believe he's good enough at cb for our club. I bet if your completely honest, either do you. I believe we have come along way since both players were signed, improvements signed I.e weimann, Baird, Ince, bent, shackell. So it just amazes me that people want us to be challenging to win the league, and want shotton and Christie in the starting 11. Especially after the way both played at the end of last season.

Your best players last season can have dire seasons next, and vice versa. Shotton is not old, he has not peaked and the fact everyone is ignoring both he and Christie's clear potential to develop into better players is staggering. 

Now, Christie I accept probably isn't good enough for first team yet, he's inconsistent but a good run as a player rotated in for minutes quite regularly should see his confidence and consistency build.

Shotton, on the other hand, has been pretty much flawless in the games he's played in Pre-Season, to say he's not good enough based on last season is ridiculous. He might not be, sure, but in pre-season he's been better than everyone else so I think attacking people for putting him in their starting XI is pretty naive.

The staff know the players. Their form, sharpness and fitness and we'll have to wait for competitive matches start to have a better ideas ourselves, for now there simply aren't any suggestions for starting places I've seen that can warrant any complaints. 

You can complain that they're leaving some people out, sure, but all of the players have played well over this pre-season.

[hughesy 1984]

Your best players last season can have dire seasons next, and vice versa. Shotton is not old, he has not peaked and the fact everyone is ignoring both he and Christie's clear potential to develop into better players is staggering. 

Now, Christie I accept probably isn't good enough for first team yet, he's inconsistent but a good run as a player rotated in for minutes quite regularly should see his confidence and consistency build.

Shotton, on the other hand, has been pretty much flawless in the games he's played in Pre-Season, to say he's not good enough based on last season is ridiculous. He might not be, sure, but in pre-season he's been better than everyone else so I think attacking people for putting him in their starting XI is pretty naive.

The staff know the players. Their form, sharpness and fitness and we'll have to wait for competitive matches start to have a better ideas ourselves, for now there simply aren't any suggestions for starting places I've seen that can warrant any complaints. 

You can complain that they're leaving some people out, sure, but all of the players have played well over this pre-season.

so you would be happy if shotton started v Bolton? Leaving Keogh or shackell on the bench? Doubt it 

[SaintRam]

so you would be happy if shotton started v Bolton? Leaving Keogh or shackell on the bench? Doubt it 

I would be happy if Shotton started and played well. I would be unhappy if Keogh started and played badly. Having stonewall feelings either way before a ball has been kicked competitive is to believe I know more about the players than I do. 

That's all I'm saying, we don't know if Shotton has improved as a player since last season yet. Until we do, we can't pretend to know where in the pecking order he lies.

[needles]

I think Shotton has been a disappointment. I thought we were getting a big strong Tony Pulis centre half, but last season all we got was a hesitant lump who couldn't pass and with a mistake in him. Tom Nayloresque even, may be appropriate given the oh so familiar cock-up from Tom yesterday.

However, yesterday he did nothing wrong. Not a single thing worth a mention. I'm hoping he can still make a good signing here on the basis of a fairly solid pre-season, new manager and having had time to settle. He'll be lucky to get a bench spot to start with though.