Boxing Thread

[BaaLocks]

16 hours ago, Alph said:

Pretty shocked with tonight

Just caught up on it and I agree. First up, very happy for Nick Ball - justice is done.

Zhang really has moved up the ratings the last year, looked like the sort of 'fight before the world title shot' kind of one that up and comings would take but he's really shown his grit (and power).

Wilder is an interesting one, and worth a couple of lines of thought. Five years ago everyone was running - we all knew his record was bloated against also rans but he was still feared, probably up to the second Fury fight. Since then all those obvious failings - footwork, stamina, fighting brain - have been exposed and we all sit here saying 'told you so'. But cast your mind back and wonder - would Fury have got where he did without having Wilder as the number one conquest on his resume, would Joshua have rushed to spark out Andy Ruiz if Wilder hadn't done the same to Breazale a month before, etc, etc.

As for Dubois, I think he's taken the place Zhang had a year ago. He's now that one that looks scary but shouldn't be a real worry to the elite. Which is why AJ will give him the fight, clean him out and hope Usyk comes back for the third.

IMHO!!!!

[Jubbs]

Guess we now know why Wilder was running from AJ for so long... Fury's record also looking worse by the day.

[Chester40]

Bivol looked momentarily surprised and was caught by a brave opponent...then comprehensively cleaned him out.

Other than Usyk's, everyone's record looks a bit sketchy now.

Dubois looked aggressive,  decent puncher...but get-at-able. 

Zhang looked so powerful and strong when finally roused.

Wilder looks done.

Parker appears better with every passing fight between his opponents,  yet Fury and AJ seem a level above him.

Edited June 2 by Chester40

[Chester40]

Decent line up of  boxing last night again.

Azeez was really poor, was lucky to get a draw imo.

Whittaker won comprehensively again, his reflexes are off the scale but his seeming lack of real punch power is a worry longer term.

Massey won in a real tear up where he looked in trouble for a while.

Finally the Billam-Smith v Riakporhe top of the bill fight. Quite a frustrating watch tbh. RR looked bigger, stronger and more powerful yet he allowed CBS to just dictate the fight. CBS had a clear tactic to get in close out of range of power shots, tie RR up and win round by round. To my inexperienced eye it looked like half the time CBS was slipping his arm under RR's and encouraging the clinch and then stretching his arms out and claiming he was being held. Regardless RR weirdly didn't seem clever enough (he obviously is very intelligent in reality) to deal with it and was constantly being pulled up and warned about his use of the head- when again that felt more  '6 of 1' than anything.

RR reluctance to let his punches go was painful the whole fight after a promising opening round. 

It was strange in a lot of ways. CBS won by a long way imo, taking almost every round for being on the front foot, letting more punches go and just generally working the body and clipping away with punches. But he never once looked capable of stopping RR  who very much looked like he could stop CBS if he had kept shoving him away, preventing the constant holding and hit him with a few power shots. My guesss is RR will reflect he was completely out thought by a man who he should have the tools to beat.

 

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Decent line up of  boxing last night again.

Thought the Selhurst Park card was pretty meh, to be honest. I've defended Whittaker to a point, but his bout with Arenyeka was an absolute shitshow. I don't mind a bit of showboating, but I hate it when it slides into outright taunting and it definitely did last night. Arenyeka, for his part, is as petulant as he is limited and we won't be seeing him on high-profile card again anytime soon.

Whittaker, for his part, has speed to spare as you said yourself, but who has he fought? Either of the two Ruskies would walk through his punches and I doubt he'd have much time for dancing with either of the Ruskies marching him down. As you rightly point out, the Billam-Smith - Riakporhe fight was a non-event, which was disappointing, as it promised so much more than it delivered. I think your assessment is spot on, it was just a weird fight end to end. In fairness to Billam-Smith, he could only best what was in front of him, I suppose. 

I think the more interesting fights were Stateside, with the seemingly unstoppable Tank piecing up Frank Martin and Benavides finding that a dogged Oleksandr Gvozdyk wasn't quite the cakewalk he expected. Tank is a genuinely scary mother******. Every fight he just ambles around for a few rounds behind that distinctive peekaboo defence of his, just to suss out what's up, then when he's solved the puzzle with his head, he seemingly on demand, puts his man to sleep. I'm always struck by how small he looks compared to his opponents, but his power is absolutely off the chart.

Meanwhile, Benevidez had been busy telling everyone how he can beat Canelo, Bivol and Beterbiev pre-fight. I mean, I love his ambition, but come on! To my way of thinking, he's fought absolutely nobody of their calibre and if Gvozdyk can open up his face, what would those monsters do? I don't know what his plan is now, but if he has to take on any of those three, I'd definitely recommend it be Canelo, not the Russians! He has skills though and perhaps this just wasn't his best showing and in fairness, it was a comfortable enough win on the scorecards at least.

[tomsdubs]

I wouldn't write Benevidez off just because he struggled with Gvozdyk, he was a top talent when he came through and was in same class as Usyk and Lomachenko. He knocked out Adonis Stevenson for the WBC world title which at the time was a big win.

[BaaLocks]

4 hours ago, Chester40 said:

Decent line up of  boxing last night again.

Azeez was really poor, was lucky to get a draw imo.

Whittaker won comprehensively again, his reflexes are off the scale but his seeming lack of real punch power is a worry longer term.

Massey won in a real tear up where he looked in trouble for a while.

Finally the Billam-Smith v Riakporhe top of the bill fight. Quite a frustrating watch tbh. RR looked bigger, stronger and more powerful yet he allowed CBS to just dictate the fight. CBS had a clear tactic to get in close out of range of power shots, tie RR up and win round by round. To my inexperienced eye it looked like half the time CBS was slipping his arm under RR's and encouraging the clinch and then stretching his arms out and claiming he was being held. Regardless RR weirdly didn't seem clever enough (he obviously is very intelligent in reality) to deal with it and was constantly being pulled up and warned about his use of the head- when again that felt more  '6 of 1' than anything.

RR reluctance to let his punches go was painful the whole fight after a promising opening round. 

It was strange in a lot of ways. CBS won by a long way imo, taking almost every round for being on the front foot, letting more punches go and just generally working the body and clipping away with punches. But he never once looked capable of stopping RR  who very much looked like he could stop CBS if he had kept shoving him away, preventing the constant holding and hit him with a few power shots. My guesss is RR will reflect he was completely out thought by a man who he should have the tools to beat.

 

Only saw the Whittaker / CBS bill so:

Whittaker has that dancing on his toes Tommy Hearns thing about him that makes him look good on the eye, much more so than when he plays the fool. But I agree entirely, he hasn't got a power punch so in time someone will walk through it and tag him. It will be just like Barrera with Naz but likely before a world championship fight.

CBS I totally agree that he was throwing his arm under and looking for the clinch. Also, he has rather a stooping stance coming out of the break, if he's not careful he's going to get uppercut to sleep on the break. He did do a much better job of not getting hit, I thought against Masternak he was well down when the towel came in. I think they both know they are better staying well away from the real belts and keeping some level of interest (although only some, it was hardly a sell out) at domestic level.

[Alph]

I remember Billam Smith v Okolie and Okolie lost a point and was criticised for holding but Billam-Smith knew how to sucker him in. Okolie has an ugly style and I don't like the bloke but he was only half to blame for some of that. 

And again I think Billam-Smith was doing similar again. I'm not a fan. 

Bit gutted for Isaac Chamberlain. 

Didn't watch Gervonta Davis but apparently it was going to expose him. Didn't look very exposed from the highlights. 

[Alph]

Whittaker is getting wrecked by the first boxer who's more than a select opponent. 

These guys he's fighting are kind of compact and there to be tormented by him. Nobody at the top end of the division is going to be fooled by his dancing. They'll be looking at his feet thinking how they can cut him off and then turn it into a brawl he's not equipped for. 

Is he going to get serious and start putting punches together and show that he's a pressure fighter? When? When he fights for a world title without ever showing it against tailor made opponents?

Is he going to develop power from somewhere? 

He looks good. But there's not a lot to him, is there? Stylish, fast, elusive.... not a lot comes back from him though?

[tomsdubs]

Whittaker gets blasted by the first fighter he faces with fast hands and feet, you can't rely on just avoiding punches like that when you get to world level. It'll be some fall from grace for that lad, ring entrance was way OTT given the level of fight as well. Boxxer are pretty cringe though, the whole promotion was pretty tacky.

Riakpohre was a let down last night, really didn't show much desire and just kept pushing single jabs. Need to do more than that to win a world title even if it is CBS.

Gervonta Davis is legit, I don't know why people keep questioning him to be honest, only way he falls off is moving up in weight too much as he is on the small side frame wise.

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

I wouldn't write Benevidez off just because he struggled with Gvozdyk, he was a top talent when he came through and was in same class as Usyk and Lomachenko. He knocked out Adonis Stevenson for the WBC world title which at the time was a big win.

Not sure what you meant here by 'the same class'? Training group I'm guessing, not class as in level. He's a quality operator for sure, but nowhere near the two others you've mentioned IMHO.

As for Benevidez, I'm not really writing him off, indeed I've not even said he struugled per se, just that I was underwhelmed given the hype. I didn't see anything to suggest that he'd live with the Ruskies.  That's more because of their power and quality than his deficiencies, hence the closing caveat

5 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

He has skills though and perhaps this just wasn't his best showing and in fairness, it was a comfortable enough win 

[tomsdubs]

30 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Not sure what you meant here by 'the same class'? Training group I'm guessing, not class as in level. He's a quality operator for sure, but nowhere near the two others you've mentioned IMHO.

As for Benevidez, I'm not really writing him off, indeed I've not even said he struugled per se, just that I was underwhelmed given the hype. I didn't see anything to suggest that he'd live with the Ruskies.  That's more because of their power and quality than his deficiencies, hence the closing caveat

Gvodyk was on the same level for a while but he didn't age as well as that same Ukranian generation he graduated with, the Beterbiev fight did him in he was never the same after that. The Stevenson win was his peak. Bit unlucky for Benavidez that Beterbiev and Bivol are around but Beterbiev is getting on now. I don't think he goes on to beat those guys but I think he'd go close with Canelo just due to size advantage.

[Bris Vegas]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/articles/cj77vvzj3vlo
 

Sounds like Tyson Fury is still concussed from the fight.

At the end of round 8 most people had the score cards either 4-4 or generously 5-3 to Fury. 

How on earth does he think he won when 9, 10 and 11 were clearly won by Usyk?

Fury needed a knockout/knockdown in the last round. And even then it was a 50-50 round, so best case is 6-6, likely case is 7-5 Usyk and for some it was even 8-4.

There is no case for Fury winning that fight other than bias, which the WBC judge was.

Fury had success in 4,5,6 and 7. But giving him 3 other rounds when all the other rounds saw Usyk outpunch him is delusion or bias.

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/articles/cj77vvzj3vlo
 

Sounds like Tyson Fury is still concussed from the fight.

At the end of round 8 most people had the score cards either 4-4 or generously 5-3 to Fury. 

How on earth does he think he won when 9, 10 and 11 were clearly won by Usyk?

Fury needed a knockout/knockdown in the last round. And even then it was a 50-50 round, so best case is 6-6, likely case is 7-5 Usyk and for some it was even 8-4.

There is no case for Fury winning that fight other than bias, which the WBC judge was.

Fury had success in 4,5,6 and 7. But giving him 3 other rounds when all the other rounds saw Usyk outpunch him is delusion or bias.

The punch counts show Fury taking an early lead, with Usyk clearly winning only round three. They also show Usyk winning rounds 7 to 12 inclusive. Total punch count has Usyk 170 vs Fury's 157. Power shot counts were 122 / 95 again in favour of the Ukranian. Fury was only superior in terms of the number of jabs landed which you'd expect given his huge reach advantage.

TBH, I don't think anyone pays Fury's outbursts much heed these days. He was mildly amusing at one time, whereas now he's just irksome, white noise.

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

The punch counts show Fury taking an early lead, with Usyk clearly winning only round three. They also show Usyk winning rounds 7 to 12 inclusive. Total punch count has Usyk 170 vs Fury's 157. Power shot counts were 122 / 95 again in favour of the Ukranian. Fury was only superior in terms of the number of jabs landed which you'd expect given his huge reach advantage.

TBH, I don't think anyone pays Fury's outbursts much heed these days. He was mildly amusing at one time, whereas now he's just irksome, white noise.

There is a video showing the first two rounds Usyk landed more punches, especially jabs the body. 

It all depends on what you judge a fight on I guess. Hitting gloves and arms count for some, others not. 

Some judges score rounds on ring control and aggression. This was the reasoning Canelo was given the nod against GGG in their second fight, yet was conveniently ignored when trying to justify a draw in the first fight.

Usyk definitely had more ring control. Fury was on the back foot for the majority of the fight.

I just don’t see how Fury or his fans can make a case for winning 7 rounds. 

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

Once Fury's nose was bust he was done.  He lost by some margin.  In the old 15 round format, he'd have been gone before points were required. 

[De22Ram]

Hate whittakers show boating! Show boat when your fighting real quality opponents not when your boxing journey men who are there to get banged out! No respect or class!

[BaaLocks]

14 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Once Fury's nose was bust he was done.  He lost by some margin.  In the old 15 round format, he'd have been gone before points were required. 

He's saying he's watched the fight back and still thinks he won. I can understand the emotion on the night getting the better of you but if he still thinks he won watching it back cold he's deluded 

Edited yesterday at 12:07 by BaaLocks