Nigel Clough

[eddie]

The next two games will be a challenge. Preston away and wolves at home. We'll have to see how that goes for him.

If he wins his games in hand the there's not a bad shout for play offs. But the gap between 6th and 7th is massive, so there's only really 6 the up for grabs, and loads of teams going for it.

Would be a helluvan achievement to take that 6th place. Even if they are the man city of league one. Even the man city if the premier league didn't do well for the first couple of seasons.

 

A few years ago Man City were the Man City of League 1 - and they didn't exactly tear the place apart although they did squeeze up via the playoffs, feeding the goat on the way.

[ramesses]

Not dig at Clough here, but is there a worse state than being a PL-sized club that's 3rd from bottom in the 3rd tier.. Just like when Clough took over at Derby, I'm pretty sure we couldn't have gotten any worse..

 

Even if we'd been relegated to the 3rd tier, we would have won it at a canter as the difference in quality between the NPC and L1 is massive.

 

NC has it all set for him.. I'll only give him credit for being a decent manager if he gets Sheff Utd to the PL.. Especially when yoy consider that people like Iain Dowie, Aidy Boothroyd, Phil Brown, Gary Megson, Dave Jones and Ian Holloway have done it with smaller and less resourced clubs

 

As soon as you see a phrase like ‘I’m not having a dig but..’ and ‘I don’t mean to be insulting but..’ then you know what’s coming next.

 

As you know, there been endless arguments and debates on this and many similar points for years – both here and other forums. Like WW1 the trenches were dug, machine guns mounted and nobody took an inch of ground.

 

After Nigel got the sack these old arguments are now trundled out as if they were facts. They weren't then and they aren't now and I've no intention wasting my time grinding a bunch of old axes for no purpose.

 

Obviously, in my opinion, Nigel did a really good job under difficult circumstances and left this club with the respect of many (if not most) Derby fans. I’m pleased he’s doing so well at the moment and why you and the admins and some mods feel the need to ‘not have a dig’ or ‘not mock’ or whatever it is you’re ‘not doing’ I really don’t know. I guess you must enjoy it.

 

Toodles.

[RamNut]

why you and the admins and some mods feel the need to ‘not have a dig’ or ‘not mock’ or whatever it is you’re ‘not doing’ I really don’t know. I guess you must enjoy it.

 .

Not wrong.

[BOB BIGGS]

You can't deny he's done a marvellous job.

Why can't you acknowledge that?

If it wasn't for Morgan they would be in the bottom 3

And the bloke who cuts the grass. He must get some credit too.

In fact, the success appears to be despite Clough being there. Just think how well they could have done by now if he hadn't joined them.....;.)

[Ramshankered]

Not dig at Clough here, but is there a worse state than being a PL-sized club that's 3rd from bottom in the 3rd tier.. Just like when Clough took over at Derby, I'm pretty sure we couldn't have gotten any worse..

 

Even if we'd been relegated to the 3rd tier, we would have won it at a canter as the difference in quality between the NPC and L1 is massive.

 

NC has it all set for him.. I'll only give him credit for being a decent manager if he gets Sheff Utd to the PL.. Especially when yoy consider that people like Iain Dowie, Aidy Boothroyd, Phil Brown, Gary Megson, Dave Jones and Ian Holloway have done it with smaller and less resourced clubs

 

Just to play devil's advocate Bris, why would we have won L1 at a canter had we gone down? There are plenty of clubs that are 'too big' for L1 currently languishing there that haven't bounced back instantly. Absolutely no guarantee we would've either - making a statement like that is as irrational as saying if NC had stayed at DCFC this season we would still be 3rd. 

[eddie]

Just to play devil's advocate Bris, why would we have won L1 at a canter had we gone down? There are plenty of clubs that are 'too big' for L1 currently languishing there that haven't bounced back instantly. Absolutely no guarantee we would've either - making a statement like that is as irrational as saying if NC had stayed at DCFC this season we would still be 3rd. 

 

If we had gone down that first season instead of finishing 18th, with the likes of Blobby Salvage, Jordan Stewart, Mile Sterjovski, Clod, Lewin Nyatanga, Andy Bloody Todd, Paul Connolly, Jay McEverley etc in the side, it would have been a very tall ask indeed to get out of League 1 - upwards, at any rate..

[ramblur]

If we had gone down that first season instead of finishing 18th, with the likes of Blobby Salvage, Jordan Stewart, Mile Sterjovski, Clod, Lewin Nyatanga, Andy Bloody Todd, Paul Connolly, Jay McEverley etc in the side, it would have been a very tall ask indeed to get out of League 1 - upwards, at any rate..

Couldn't agree more,eddie.It always amused me when some suggested that relegation would be a good thing because we'd be able to "get rid of all the deadwood".How would our relegation make this possible? It couldn't be because certain players wouldn't fancy playing in L1,because they couldn't get in the side anyway.So players sitting on fat contracts would all of a sudden be much easier to shift???

[Bris Vegas]

You really can't give Clough credit for his achievements with Sheffield United?

 

An incredible run in the league eclipsed by beating not one but two Premiership sides and two Championship sides to make an FA Cup semi final.

 

You just have something personal against Clough. It is clear for all too see.

 

Phil Parkinson 

[Ambitious]

My opinion is, for all those people saying Clough isn't doing a good job - it's coming across as slightly bitter, obviously just my opinion.

 

You can only beat what is in front of you, and he is doing that and a very good rate too.

 

He now has a better win percentage than Steve McClaren has here, so I'm not sure how you can argue that he isn't doing a good job. Regardless of their squad...etc

 

This is going to be a very, very unpopular opinion. However, as a manager I don't think there is much between Clough and McClaren.

 

I think we've improved the backroom staff by an incredible amount, and that has definitely showed. But in terms of the two managers I think they're very similar.

 

I feel both clubs and managers have benefited from a change though, and I have no doubt Clough will go on to bigger and better things, as I expect McClaren will do.

[Bris Vegas]

I think Clough's time here proved he was no more than a run of the mill manager...

 

When you consider how some managers have easily won League 1 then it really isn't a difficult league - especially if you're at a club like Sheff Utd or Wolves.

 

People keep harping on about NC being a good manager but in his 15 year managerial career he has done nothing to show it.

 

If he retires tomorrow... Then Paul Jewell would be looked back on as the better manager. As would Iain Dowie and Aidy Boothroyd

[Mafiabob]

Clough, not good enough at Derby ( particularly last season and start of this ) and doing well at Sheffield United with a hell of a lot more resources than pretty much every team in league 1 ( barring Wolves perhaps ). He's doing well not denying it. But if he doesn't get promoted next season it would be an abject failure.

Some people however may level that criticism of Mclaren next season if we are in the championship and not doing well. All about expectations. The reason Clough got sacked is because it was deemed that we were performing below them.

Many people argued it was am awful time to sack him after the Forest game. I always thought it was the PERFECT time. Early enough in the season to still have a real go at getting out of this league.

I do believe the powers that be at Derby will be vindicated, but obviously that's my own opinion. If others want to believe Clough would have been good enough to get Derby up so be it. The stats didn't lie I'm afraid and that's why he had to go. Feel free to rip my musings apart, wouldn't be any fun otherwise.

And yes I'm fully aware I've broken my promise of not talking about Clough for lent. *slaps wrists*

[BondJovi]

We'll never know what our season would have been like with Clough. I say again, him doing a good job at Sheff United does not mean he would be have had a successful season here.

 

McClaren has surrounded himself with quality staff, Simpson is fantastic and i'd rather have him any day than someone like Crosby. Steele is one of the top goalkeeping coaches in the country (thank you Moyes). Why McClaren has succeeded so far is ambition, he wants to work with the best players at the best level. The England media hounding would have ruined many careers but he got back on the wagon and is rebuilding his reputation, brave enough to manage abroad.

Clough always struck me as a man who wanted to win, but not at the sake of family and friendships. A man who believed in doing it his way and on his own with his people. I don't for one second believe he would be happy at Derby as "head coach" or would have ever got in that "older head" to assist. I admire that, I do, but I think that kind of thing no longer works in the high pressure modern game. There were an awful lot of expectations, dreams for what he could do at Derby.

 

[westwickram]

There are some strange views on this thread. I dont know why I read it. Its a bit like the daily mail comments - you fight the urge to click on them but do then feel dirty afterwards. But for the record I like Derby and I like Nigel. It was probably right for a change but it was a **** way to go. However I do find it really pleasing that he has gone on a good run and after Derbys results its nice to have another team to look out for especially as they are relatively local and now have some good ex-Derby players along for the ride. As most sensible people have said...everyones a winner? end of story.

[Boycie]

I think everyone's secretly happy for Clough.

It's the wrist slashes against the happy clappers. It was then, it is now.

I don't take it too seriously to be honest.

[eddie]

There's no such thing as a 'run of the mill manager', a 'good manager' or a 'bad manager' - well, not one who gets more than one job anyway.

 

Managers either fit or don't fit in a given job, and no manager is a nailed-on guarantee of success. Steve McClaren is a classic example of that - no-one in their right mind would have thought that Middlesbrough would ever reach a European final, or that FC Twente would ever win the Dutch league. This despite the fact that 15 years ago, he was being groomed as the natural successor to SAF at Manchester United.

 

I thought that McClaren would be an incredibly astute appointment for England - and for Forest for that matter - but both were disastrous.

 

Another 'for instance' is Howard Wilkinson. According to one poll a few years ago, he actually came out on top as the 'worst manager of all time'. All I can suggest as an explanation is that someone collected all the cretins on the world together, put them in one place and got them to vote in that poll. Must have all been Sunderland fans. 

[Mafiabob]

There's no such thing as a 'run of the mill manager', a 'good manager' or a 'bad manager' - well, not one who gets more than one job anyway.

Managers either fit or don't fit in a given job, and no manager is a nailed-on guarantee of success. Steve McClaren is a classic example of that - no-one in their right mind would have thought that Middlesbrough would ever reach a European final, or that FC Twente would ever win the Dutch league. This despite the fact that 15 years ago, he was being groomed as the natural successor to SAF at Manchester United.

I thought that McClaren would be an incredibly astute appointment for England - and for Forest for that matter - but both were disastrous.

Another 'for instance' is Howard Wilkinson. According to one poll a few years ago, he actually came out on top as the 'worst manager of all time'. All I can suggest as an explanation is that someone collected all the cretins on the world together, put them in one place and got them to vote in that poll. Must have all been Sunderland fans.

Wilko yet another the press loved to hate.

If he come from down saarf it would have been a different matter. Bloody good manager.

[Gary Teale]

Clough is doing very well at sheff utd and good luck to him. He wasn't good enough here so we moved on and we have someone who looks better.

All these clough threads prove to me it was more about the name than the actual manager as no other manager with such a record would be held in such high esteem by some

[ronnieronalde]

Clough is doing very well at sheff utd and good luck to him. He wasn't good enough here so we moved on and we have someone who looks better.

All these clough threads prove to me it was more about the name than the actual manager as no other manager with such a record would be held in such high esteem by some

 

 

Or you could flip that right on its head Emj and say that all those Clough threads for the last four years criticising his signings/tactics/treatment of players were just because of his name.

 

Since he's gone.

 

We've signed a non-league goalie - not a murmour

We've signed a 33 year old full back who hasn't played for years. - not a squeak.

We've signed loan players to replace our own but then kept them all on the bench, despite paying them a chunk of wedge - that's fine and good planning

We've lost games we shouldn't have lost. - it's to be expected.

We've drawn games we shouldn't have drawn - ah well, that's football.

We've frozen out youngsters without giving them a chance. - they weren't good enough anyway.

 

Compare that to the reaction when NC was here.

 

Would you even be prepared to consider that If his name wasn't Clough and he hadn't played for Forest there's no way he'd have been slaughtered as much as he was.

 

He gets more stick that Jewell and Davies combined depsite not leaving us in the **** anyway near as much as they did. That's purely down to his name.

 

 

 

 

 

Tell me it's not just down to his name?

[Mafiabob]

Or you could flip that right on its head Emj and say that all those Clough threads for the last four years criticising his signings/tactics/treatment of players were just because of his name.

Since he's gone.

We've signed a non-league goalie - not a murmour

We've signed a 33 year old full back who hasn't played for years. - not a squeak.

We've signed loan players to replace our own but then kept them all on the bench, despite paying them a chunk of wedge - that's fine and good planning

We've lost games we shouldn't have lost. - it's to be expected.

We've drawn games we shouldn't have drawn - ah well, that's football.

We've frozen out youngsters without giving them a chance. - they weren't good enough anyway.

Compare that to the reaction when NC was here.

Would you even be prepared to consider that If his name wasn't Clough and he hadn't played for Forest there's no way he'd have been slaughtered as much as he was.

He gets more stick that Jewell and Davies combined depsite not leaving us in the **** anyway near as much as they did. That's purely down to his name.

Tell me it's not just down to his name?

sorry can't agree with the stick. It's bare facts why he got sacked ronnie, as many have alluded to, name me one manager whose had five seasons at a club where they lost more than he won in every season and still kept there job after?

We could swing it another way, I think if Glick was still here and not Rush I firmly believe Clough would still be here. And probably 7/8 places further down the table. All hypothetical of course I could be right I could be wrong. But one thing for certain the stats don't lie. "It is what it is" as some ex manager down the A52 might say.

He's doing well at Sheffield United. Fair play, his big challenge will be next season, same as Macs if we don't go up this season. There will be massive expectation on both guys to do the business. Who would I have preferred at the helm next season for the challenge. Only one answer. Mac

[BondJovi]

Or you could flip that right on its head Emj and say that all those Clough threads for the last four years criticising his signings/tactics/treatment of players were just because of his name.

 

Since he's gone.

 

We've signed a non-league goalie - not a murmour

We've signed a 33 year old full back who hasn't played for years. - not a squeak.

We've signed loan players to replace our own but then kept them all on the bench, despite paying them a chunk of wedge - that's fine and good planning

We've lost games we shouldn't have lost. - it's to be expected.

We've drawn games we shouldn't have drawn - ah well, that's football.

We've frozen out youngsters without giving them a chance. - they weren't good enough anyway.

 

Compare that to the reaction when NC was here.

 

Would you even be prepared to consider that If his name wasn't Clough and he hadn't played for Forest there's no way he'd have been slaughtered as much as he was.

 

He gets more stick that Jewell and Davies combined depsite not leaving us in the **** anyway near as much as they did. That's purely down to his name.

 

 

 

 

 

Tell me it's not just down to his name?

 

As for Clough getting more criticism than Jewell, I am yet to see anyone have a good word about the Jewell debacle, expect maybe the quality of his videos... There is/was a lot more to talk about with Clough but I would say his job here was widely appreciated as it should be. Had Clough only been give a year or two, I would understand the annoyance.

 

I know that in my mind I allowed Clough an extra season because of his name. I could see what he was trying to do and I wanted that to happen but I never felt he could do it. I believe in all the romantic, fantasy malarkey but I had grown tired of it. He did the job initially required, but couldn't move us on to the next level. I fail to see why there is such a need for a fuss over that.

 

Now he is doing well at Sheff United, good for him. I have never had an affiliation with ex-managers (much like ex girlfriends) so the wheel moves on.