ladyram Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Loving the new management team, still don't trust Rush/GSE. Well, dunno if lovings the right word juuuuust yet.. But not trusting Rush is true enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 For me the DoF and the head coach are two Heads of Department both reporting to the CEO but with different jobs and responsibilities and different people working for them. They are equals within the overall club. In order for the whole organisation to work properly they have to be able to work together, the CEO has to make sure that they do and also has to lay down the overall strategy which he agrees with the board. They both answer to the CEO not the Chairman. It's very different from the old days when the team manager effectively ran the club, scouting arrangements, Administration and all the rest of it, answering only to the Chairman, and sometimes not even to them There are pros and cons to any system but Sam Rush's job will be to make it work and he will aim to appoint a DoF who will work with Steve McClaren Kinell you are tuned in to how these things shake......... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsall Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think you misunderstand the proposed system. McClaren will remain in charge of football matters and whoever comes in to assist in this side of the business would not be able to overrule him - they would work to his brief. The people running Derby aren't complete idiots. Of course no one would employ scouts the head coach doesn't trust, just as the buck will stop with the head coach and not the DoF or head of recruitment or whatever title he or she is awarded. Absolutely spot on Carl. And anyone who attended the Royal Telegraph tonight with Steve, Sam and John Vicars would be in no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The problems happen when the roles are not clearly defined. Ferguson always said that the Manager (Head Coach?) must always be in control. If Steve can just tell the DoF that players a, b, and c are not wanted and let the DoF deal with their agents, contracts, selling price, potential buyers etc, then thats all good as he can concentrate on coaching the players he wants. Turning it round though, he may want to be involved in recruitment as the manager/head coach can influence a player face to face by inspiring him, selling the club, convincing him he's wanted. its not as simple as giving the DoF a list. With the right people and clearly defined roles, it may work but its fraught and hasn't really turned out well in the UK yet. I am sure that an approach by the club would be enough to let a potential player know he is wanted. After the DoF has convinced the player to come to PP for negotiations then Steve would get involved- brown nosing, guided tours, Moor Farm, promotion aspirations- the whole nine yards. This 3-4 hours or so is the only part Steve should play in negotiations, not only would this give him more time managing the team it would also allow him to remain distant, essentially in charge- a man to impress rather than see him sweating over contracts etc. In essence, he should target the players from scouting reports/ own experiences, task the DoF to pique their interest in playing for us and then wow them with his presence for a few hours before leaving the negotiation to the DoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 It amuses me greatly that the main reason for not trusting Sam Rush is he got sick of under-achieving with an unprofessional coaching and management set-up and moved to correct that, and in turn, try to move us forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Did he let slip what players they're looking to shift in January? No you wouldnt expect him to. He mentioned that some palyers had been out of the picture for a while. We have a 40 to 50 man squad including development players, and in order to keep on top of resourcing requirements and how to deal with them you need to know every players contract terms. These are not details for the Head Coach to bother himself with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 No you wouldnt expect him to. He mentioned that some palyers had been out of the picture for a while. We have a 40 to 50 man squad including development players, and in order to keep on top of resourcing requirements and how to deal with them you need to know every players contract terms. These are not details for the Head Coach to bother himself with. Interesting comment actually. Does this mean that who we pick to play and who gets frozen out and sold will not be largely based upon the wages of the player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Did anyone ask who is performing the DoF role currently? We seem to have been happily hiring/trialling players since the second Nigel left so you do wonder what discernible difference there will be once we have a DoF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Interesting comment actually. Does this mean that who we pick to play and who gets frozen out and sold will not be largely based upon the wages of the player? No I think it means that if a player is out of the squad and we want to move him on, we need to know details about how long hes got on his contract, what his wages are etc.. to come to some arrangement I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Did anyone ask who is performing the DoF role currently? We seem to have been happily hiring/trialling players since the second Nigel left so you do wonder what discernible difference there will be once we have a DoF I wasn't there so I don't really know if it was asked. I'd imagine the answer would be that McC/Simmo/Steele have done all that, but once the 'technical director' (not DoF) is appointed, they can focus on the day to day coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I wasn't there so I don't really know if it was asked. I'd imagine the answer would be that McC/Simmo/Steele have done all that, but once the 'technical director' (not DoF) is appointed, they can focus on the day to day coaching. You reckon? My guess of the answer would have been that Sam Rush has been doing it. Don't forget that the Zak Whitbread deal happened when we had no manager! He's the former head of big player's agency and frequently reminds us of that fact, so I still think he actually fancies the role himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 You reckon? My guess of the answer would have been that Sam Rush has been doing it. Don't forget that the Zak Whitbread deal happened when we had no manager! He's the former head of big player's agency and frequently reminds us of that fact, so I still think he actually fancies the role himself you could be right, although I hazily recall him saying that Whitbread was identified by NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyHudson Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 ...I still think he actually fancies the role himself Wouldn't surprise me if that happened to be honest. A few months down the line the club decide that there's "no one suitable" or "things seem to be working, no need to rock the boat" and Rush just ends up stepping into the role officially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Wouldn't surprise me if that happened to be honest. A few months down the line the club decide that there's "no one suitable" or "things seem to be working, no need to rock the boat" and Rush just ends up stepping into the role officially. Saves a wage I suppose, but judging from the brief/role spec, it will be a full time/busy role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I thought that Clough had identified Michael Keane, and that was where the alleged argument occurred? It was certainly odd that the Keane loan was common knowledge (even his family members had tweeted something like "good luck to my nephew Michael on his way to Derby" or something?). Then Clough gets sacked and the day after we get Whitbread instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 It amuses me greatly that the main reason for not trusting Sam Rush is he got sick of under-achieving with an unprofessional coaching and management set-up and moved to correct that, and in turn, try to move us forward. I was thinking this too Normanton even said that he loves the new management team, but doesn't trust Rush Who do you think went out of their way to get us a decent management team?! He obviously knew better than anyone else at the football club in the past 5 years and stamped out those he deemed not to be good enough. Rush should be the one being thanked in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I just wonder what Rush's role will be, with Vicars doing the commercial side of the business, the new finance guy from Chelsea, and a DoF running that part of the business. I remember the job spec on the recruitment agency's site when Glick left was very much someone to handle the football-side of the business. I wish I could find it – the link is dead now. Trying the Wayback Machine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I was thinking this too Normanton even said that he loves the new management team, but doesn't trust Rush Who do you think went out of their way to get us a decent management team?! He obviously knew better than anyone else at the football club in the past 5 years and stamped out those he deemed not to be good enough. Rush should be the one being thanked in my book. Thanks- I now have an image in my head of Sam goatee Rush trying to stamp out a rotund Andy Garner. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I thought that Clough had identified Michael Keane, and that was where the alleged argument occurred? It was certainly odd that the Keane loan was common knowledge (even his family members had tweeted something like "good luck to my nephew Michael on his way to Derby" or something?). Then Clough gets sacked and the day after we get Whitbread instead. Yeah an then we got fed the line about SM contacts making it easier to get a loan from united. Maybe they forgot the respect Fergie had for Brian. After all he wanted Darren to go and play at Forest but the old Trafford top dogs wouldn't let him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Yeah an then we got fed the line about SM contacts making it easier to get a loan from united. Maybe they forgot the respect Fergie had for Brian. After all he wanted Darren to go and play at Forest but the old Trafford top dogs wouldn't let him. I think we are the only established Championship side who never managed to loan a Man United player. Not sure the respect you say SAF had for BC is/was extended to NC. add: Before anyone picks me up on that, somebody mentioned this, and I'm too lazy to research it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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