Suffolk Sheep Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I really want to like Forsyth. He is steady and an honest footballer. And at least (unlike in the days of Richard Jackson, Alan Wright, Gareth Roberts etc) he wins 95% of the back post aerial stuff, so that's a plus. Also he can cross a decent ball when given time. BUT, on the deck he is clearly not a natural defender and he clearly doesn't have much idea going forward. Pretty one paced too. He seems, in the current formation, to be the frequent outlet ball which is really holding us back. If we had a decent attacking LB we'd have really been up there this season. So, do we stick with him or try something different? E.g Freeman at LB and Smith at RB. Smith looked competent v Brentford ?? Other alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedshuls Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hoganson??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Give him time, his body language tells me he's not comfortable, but that may just be his demeanour. I think he needs to play simple balls sometimes and not long diagonals up front to nobody. That's when the groans are heard. All in all, I'm happy with him, and don't forget, except for us, he ain't played for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He's doing fine, let him have time, settle in to the team, as Boycie says, this is the first time he's played a run of a games and probably been the first time he's been first choice anywhere in his career. All I'm interested in to begin with is whether he can defend, and he can. Why not allow him to grow into the role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Someone just needs to tell him to GET FORWARD. Most of the time when he receives the ball in the left back spot, there is no forward down the line pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He is still learning the position, he has played mainly at left midfield up until he came to Derby. He is going to take time to learn the left back role, he still takes a midfielders position at times - but that is to be expected. Derby supporters are vey quick to jump on young players backs and write them off. I can think of two previous left backs who were slated by a section of supporters when they arrived at Derby but who went on to have successful careers: - Mickey Forsyth was signed as a centre back and asked to play left back by Cox, for the first half season his positioning was poor but he learnt the position and went on to play over 400 games for us. But if you listened to some of our supporters during his first 40 or so games he should have been dropped never to be seen again. - When Chris Powell was signed in 1996 it was the early days of RamsNet, after his first few games I remember this being filled with comments about us signing a Crystal Palace reject who was not good enough for Derby, after 20 or so games he won most, but not all, supporters round and went on to play around 100 games for Derby and later win England caps. You will struggle to find supporters now who will admit they wanted rid of the above two in their early days, but believe me they were there. Give a young player time, I'm sure he will come good. And, whilst slagging him off look at our goals against column since he arrived (including on loan last season) we have tightened up so he must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 We've had this discussion..... haven't we :wacko: , well pretty much, almost the same, kinda similar, etc..... http://dcfcfans.co.uk/topic/12329-i-dont-rate-craig-forsyth/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 talk about creating problems that aren't there. Derby fans have a history of not understanding what they are criticising. Fans used to slate Mo Camara. The reason was because he was useless attacking. BUT his actual job was to defend and Mo Camara was rarely (if ever) the weak-link or the defensive cause of a problem. Forsyth is the same. HOW many goals have been a result of his poor defending? Forsyth does need to improve the accuracy of his passing, but he rarely makes a mistake in the defensive 3rd, just when advanced. Leave him alone and stop looking for problems. Keogh is the weak link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Derby fans have a history of not understanding what they are criticising... How modest oh enlightened one! Forsyth does some things well, his crosses are good and is decent in the air. He lacks pace though and seems to lack energy. Looks very reluctant going forward to me. Did think about freeman left back and smith right back for Saturday, might be the way to go. Not sure I'd do it straight away, be good for Forsyth to know there is competition as well. Mo camara was awful and you know it by the way! And full backs definately have to have more than defending to their game nowadays. They are your main outlet ball, should always be free basically. If this person can't use the ball that becomes a major problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thought he was decent yesterday. Got a roasting for pace once or twice early and adjusted to defend the winger well. He improved again second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He is still learning the position, he has played mainly at left midfield up until he came to Derby. He is going to take time to learn the left back role, he still takes a midfielders position at times - but that is to be expected. Derby supporters are vey quick to jump on young players backs and write them off. I can think of two previous left backs who were slated by a section of supporters when they arrived at Derby but who went on to have successful careers: - Mickey Forsyth was signed as a centre back and asked to play left back by Cox, for the first half season his positioning was poor but he learnt the position and went on to play over 400 games for us. But if you listened to some of our supporters during his first 40 or so games he should have been dropped never to be seen again. - When Chris Powell was signed in 1996 it was the early days of RamsNet, after his first few games I remember this being filled with comments about us signing a Crystal Palace reject who was not good enough for Derby, after 20 or so games he won most, but not all, supporters round and went on to play around 100 games for Derby and later win England caps. You will struggle to find supporters now who will admit they wanted rid of the above two in their early days, but believe me they were there. Give a young player time, I'm sure he will come good. And, whilst slagging him off look at our goals against column since he arrived (including on loan last season) we have tightened up so he must be doing something right. I would be one of them regarding Chris Powell, nice guy but I never ever rated him at Derby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He'll get better, only a few games into his career as a left back. Defensively hasn't let anyone down and will improve as his confidence grows. That's the most important thing, if he was shaky at the back i'd be worried but he's doing fine. His distribution has left a bit to be desired at times but he's lacking a stock pass down the line as we're playing a bit narrower. I'm a forward but have played full back on occasion and it's a totally different feeling to be on the ball deeper. There's almost too much time and you instinctively want to get the ball forward and out of danger. It's also hard to judge when to get forward or not. It takes time to adjust and he's got the quality to be a good attacking full back at this level. He'll come good, we need to get behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 He'll get better, only a few games into his career as a left back. Defensively hasn't let anyone down and will improve as his confidence grows. That's the most important thing, if he was shaky at the back i'd be worried but he's doing fine. His distribution has left a bit to be desired at times but he's lacking a stock pass down the line as we're playing a bit narrower. I'm a forward but have played full back on occasion and it's a totally different feeling to be on the ball deeper. There's almost too much time and you instinctively want to get the ball forward and out of danger. It's also hard to judge when to get forward or not. It takes time to adjust and he's got the quality to be a good attacking full back at this level. He'll come good, we need to get behind him. I was a right/left back when playing and I would concur with this, out of all positions barring GK this is where you have most time on the ball, problem is you want to get rid of it as quick as possible as we are not the best passers in the game! Speaking for myself Rodley by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 We need to preserve with Craig, he has been our worst player this season so far - no hiding from that, and he hasn't had the best of starts but he just looks like a shitting dog. He is currently struggling with a case of the conor doyles - not fast, okay. Nothing we can do about that, just needs to keep in line with the centre backs, as he does defend and stand up his man well. Crossing, and Arial ability are his plus points, as well as his strong tackling. He needs to improve his distribution, and most of all his composure - the way we play can't afford a player hiking it up the wing every time he gets the ball, we've got a deep lying centre mid and a left sided centre mid - look to use them more often than not, play smart - don't lose the ball. I haven't looked back at the game, but from memory his pass completion against yeovil must have been twice if not three times as bad as anyone else on our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I don't think moving Freeman and playing Smith is the answer.Smith ran with the ball last night - across the pitch 50 yards diagonally on a few occasions - didn't look for a pass and lost the ball. He'd put himself as far out of position as he could. If he's going to run with it stick to the right side of the pitch - if he can't then look for the pass. Don't knacker his positioning and the teams shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I was a right/left back when playing and I would concur with this, out of all positions barring GK this is where you have most time on the ball, problem is you want to get rid of it as quick as possible as we are not the best passers in the game! Speaking for myself Rodley by the way! Haha understood. I myself was positively cruyff-esque. With forsyth i think people expect his distribution to be better because he's a midfielder but it's not quite as simple as that. Personally i hated playing full back, horrible position to play! I don't envy anyone who plays there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Haha understood. I myself was positively cruyff-esque. With forsyth i think people expect his distribution to be better because he's a midfielder but it's not quite as simple as that. Personally i hated playing full back, horrible position to play! I don't envy anyone who plays there! I packed up playing couple of seasons ago, I was getting older and the wingers were getting younger, only so many times I could chop them down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Derby fans have a history of not understanding what they are criticising... How modest oh enlightened one! Forsyth does some things well, his crosses are good and is decent in the air. He lacks pace though and seems to lack energy. Looks very reluctant going forward to me. Did think about freeman left back and smith right back for Saturday, might be the way to go. Not sure I'd do it straight away, be good for Forsyth to know there is competition as well. Mo camara was awful and you know it by the way! And full backs definately have to have more than defending to their game nowadays. They are your main outlet ball, should always be free basically. If this person can't use the ball that becomes a major problem Mo Camara is harshly judged. He was much more reliable than McEveley, Stewart, Moxey and Roberts at left back when defending. As for full backs having to have more, they don't have to, it's a bonus if they do. But anyone who would pick a defender based on his abilities doing things other than defending is on to a loser I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 You will struggle to find supporters now who will admit they wanted rid of the above two in their early days, but believe me they were there. Give a young player time, I'm sure he will come good. And, whilst slagging him off look at our goals against column since he arrived (including on loan last season) we have tightened up so he must be doing something right. Good post. I think it's interesting/depressing that some are writing off a young Lad before the end of August! Says everything about some fans today, not just at Derby. Large dose of reality needed. £150k wasn't it [or thereabouts]. Defence already looking a bit stronger but still not good enough for some. I suppose unless we win every game, without conceding, there will be folks looking to moan. In fact, I'll change that. Even if we won every game without conceding, there would still be people looking to moan. Happy Daze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Mo Camara is harshly judged. He was much more reliable than McEveley, Stewart, Moxey and Roberts at left back when defending. As for full backs having to have more, they don't have to, it's a bonus if they do. But anyone who would pick a defender based on his abilities doing things other than defending is on to a loser I'm afraid. Depends on the quality of the team for me, if you are going to hopefully have more than 50% of the possession which we aim to do then your full back will be utilised as an attacking option more than a defensive one. Some defensive ability is a must as is some footballing ability. The four left backs you mentioned were all far superior to camera for me. Mcevely played well in patches, was very good on his day. Roberts did a job in his three years here, still think moxey was unlucky to be sold. Jordan Stewart is pretty close I'll maybe give you that one. Personally would much still much rather have moxey than Forsyth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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