cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 So I was just thinking about this after typing my usual garbage on another thread... For me, St Bucko has improved by a long long way since he first joined us... Back then he looked totally out of place and like a league 2 player at best... Now I'd say he's a decent championship defender... On the flip side, people have been saying (I think wrongly, but hey-ho) that Frankie went backwards in his time at Derby... I've seen lots of threads dedicated to transfer success/failure under Nigel but nothing on how he's helped (and his team... HIS team being the important thing) players improve... So, what do people think his success rate is like on players improving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'd also point out that Nigel has a knack of getting the best out of strikers and goal scorers. What's the common theme between Hulse, Commons, Davies, Theo and Ward? They all had their seasonal best goal total under Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Do we know has Nigel got the team around him he thinks is needed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Do we know has Nigel got the team around him he thinks is needed ? Coaching team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No one in our x11 has got worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No one in our x11 has got worse... In all fairness though, that's because we've got probably 4 new players in that starting 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think it's either one of the other and no middle ground. Players have either shone or looked awful. I think all players improve with experience and know-how, but the judgement comes from things like if they're motivated, committed, adapted to the set-up etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think it's either one of the other and no middle ground. Players have either shone or looked awful. I think all players improve with experience and know-how, but the judgement comes from things like if they're motivated, committed, adapted to the set-up etc. I agree to an extent... You're right that it's about getting those things right... amongst other factors... But I disagree when you say there's no middle ground... Maguire would be the example for me... He wasn't as good as Nigel thought he would be, but there's no proof he left cos he was worse than when he joined... Leacock would be an example of a player who Nigel never managed to get the best out of and probably left a worse player than when he joined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randombc Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Brayford - Came from league 2 - now touted for premiership stardom - IMPROVED Keogh - Earnt his first international cap - IMPROVED Buxton - IMPROVED Forsyth - Not enough time Coutts - Was unhappy at PNE so can't really be judged if he's 'improved' but seems to be enjoying his football a lot more. Hendrick - Came from under 18's to Ireland international IMPROVED Hughes - Came from under 18's to rumoured £10 million bid - IMPROVED Ward - Best goalscoring record of his career at Derby - IMPROVED Sammon - Undecided Russell - Not enough time Grant - Supposedly improved since he was last with us although Clough is not responsible for that. Freeman - Came from Forest reserves to making 19 appearances last season and not looking out of place - IMPROVED To be honest, I can't really think of a footballer that Clough has signed permanently gone down in terms of ability, Although there are way to many variables to judge this fairly, who's to say that these players would not have improved quicker or better under a different manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Brayford - Came from league 2 - now touted for premiership stardom - IMPROVED I agree with this... but to be clear (as the ney-sayers will no doubt argue) I'm NOT looking at whether what league a player came from, just whether they are batter now than their first games for Derby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Legzdins, Buxton and Roberts are the big success stories IMO. Legazdins got his chance against forest and since hasn't looked out of place at this level. Would be a solid enough deputy for most clubs in this division and could do a job as first choice keeper. Buxton has improved his decision making, his passing and has also scored a couple of goals. He's gone from a brutish lump to a CB of quality (at this level). Roberts started off slow but was one of our most consistent performers over the last two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 In some cases it's hard to judge as some players had shown promise and good form at their previous clubs. However players that have improved since joining and changed initial fan judgement would be Brayford - just keeps getting steadier. Buxton - Far better reading of the game and his passing is much better. Roberts - Was despised by a lot of people after first signing but became a Very Steady Eddie for a season and a half. Hendrick - Was initially annoyed when he was constantly picked ahead of Bailey but he's going to be a lynchpin in the next few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Coaching team? I meant are they the kind of coaches Nigel wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 I meant are they the kind of coaches Nigel wants. I reckon so... Can't imagine anyone else is appointing them for him... and having so many former Burton/Derby lads around suggests they're his choices, since he's lived around here for years... That said, it's probably the same as with the players... he's slowly putting his back-room team together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Brayford - Came from league 2 - now touted for premiership stardom - IMPROVED Keogh - Earnt his first international cap - IMPROVED Buxton - IMPROVED Forsyth - Not enough time Coutts - Was unhappy at PNE so can't really be judged if he's 'improved' but seems to be enjoying his football a lot more. Hendrick - Came from under 18's to Ireland international IMPROVED Hughes - Came from under 18's to rumoured £10 million bid - IMPROVED Ward - Best goalscoring record of his career at Derby - IMPROVED Sammon - Undecided Russell - Not enough time Grant - Supposedly improved since he was last with us although Clough is not responsible for that. Freeman - Came from Forest reserves to making 19 appearances last season and not looking out of place - IMPROVED To be honest, I can't really think of a footballer that Clough has signed permanently gone down in terms of ability, Although there are way to many variables to judge this fairly, who's to say that these players would not have improved quicker or better under a different manager? Are you judging on ability alone? People don't just gain more ability! They're either able, or not. Where a player can improve is fitness, technique, mental attitude, teamwork, consistency, strength etc. Would you like me to now balance out your comment? Lee Croft - got worse/declined under Clough Martin Albrechtsen - got worse/declined under Clough Jay McEveley - got worse/declined under Clough Tomas Cywka - got worse/declined under Clough Frankie Fielding - got worse/declined under Clough Dave Martin - got worse/declined under Clough Dean Leacock - got worse/declined under Clough Stephen Bywater - got worse/declined under Clough Paul Green - got worse/declined under Clough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I reckon so... Can't imagine anyone else is appointing them for him... and having so many former Burton/Derby lads around suggests they're his choices, since he's lived around here for years... That said, it's probably the same as with the players... he's slowly putting his back-room team together... Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Are you judging on ability alone? People don't just gain more ability! They're either able, or not. Where a player can improve is fitness, technique, mental attitude, teamwork, consistency, strength etc. Would you like me to now balance out your comment? Lee Croft - got worse/declined under Clough Martin Albrechtsen - got worse/declined under Clough Jay McEveley - got worse/declined under Clough Tomas Cywka - got worse/declined under Clough Frankie Fielding - got worse/declined under Clough Dave Martin - got worse/declined under Clough Dean Leacock - got worse/declined under Clough Stephen Bywater - got worse/declined under Clough Paul Green - got worse/declined under Clough I disagree with some of these... Croft for instance had a good season with Norwich but from day 1 with us was AWFUL... though he actually improved from there to a point where he actually played half-decent at one point (2 season back?) Albrechtson I never understood... Always thought he was consistently decent, but just wasn't Nigel's CoT... Jay McEveley - Bad when he arrived, bad when he left Tomas Cywka - Agreed... Frankie Fielding - Confidence shot this season Dave Martin - Dunno... Maybe... Didn;t play enough to know... his FORTUNES got worse certainly Dean Leacock - Agreed Stephen Bywater - Mostly agreed... Although now maybe thinking he wasn;t ever that good Paul Green - He was played out of position, but not convinced he was a worse player when he left... the same yes, but not worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think a lot of players have improved by virtue of them gaining experience etc. However, I think it can be said that Clough got the best out of the likes of Commons, Hulse and Bucko. Players that haven't improved or bought into his way of doing things have been shipped on and not many have pulled up any trees elsewhere to be honest. Mostyn lists some decent examples of players that haven't improved under Nige but none of them have gone onto better things since leaving so it's tough to fault the coaching staff really IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Mostly I get frustrated that Nigel doesn't get credit for developing players like Hendrick... You can argue that he may have been a youth player at the club before Nigel arrived... But it's under his management that Hendrick has turned into a genuinely quality midfielder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Wasn't wardy going through a tough patch at his old club and clough has turned him into one of if not the best player on our team? I think Jacobs may go downhill as he's not getting played as much as he should. Not clough's fault, just that we've got better. And since he's not playing enough its probably taking a toll on his growth. Would you say sammons improved over the season? Apart from his horrific miss against Spain, he looked a lot better player during the ROI squad than he did during the beginning of the season. And lastly I don't believe coutts has got worse, hiss form just dipped during the last quarter of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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