SuperSheep Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'm not saying that Derby should have done any better.. I'm merely saying that a -3 points from the previous season is a wierd way to say we've improved.. Like I've mentioned, if we improve at the same rate of -3 points per year we'll be relegated in 5 years.. People are getting carried away with 10th place as an improvement because the AVERAGES are down.. I mean why esle would people think Spurs have made an improvement.. If they continue at the same rate points wise in 5 years they'll be in the top 2.. And as for Swansea, in 10 years improving at the same rate under Laudrup they'll finish on 36 points and will probably go down.. It's the same arguement I had with you guys when you all thought that being 6 points off Middlesbrough in January mean that all we needed to do to make the playoffs was to finish above them..could the averages be down because it is now a more competitive league? More teams this year were winning games that they were expected to lose and vice versa. So shouldn't it be an improvement having a higher place in a tougher devision than previous years. In my opinion... Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 9 minutes in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Winning more games, Losing less games, claiming more points = improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Obviously league position and points tallies aren't the only way to judge whether a seasons been a success or not. Pulis has paid the price for not evolving his team to play any other way. The natives got restless because when teams matched their physicality and/or pushed high up the pitch to stop Crouch, Jerome & Jones' flick ons from working they had fook all else to offer. Plus they leaked goals at the other end. Don't agree with that assessment ask any sports journalist or pundit in the country. So they didn't improve then? Despite finishing one place higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 We played better stuff last season. That's improvement enough to me. In a rebuilding job, performance on the pitch shows the real improvement. I'm hopeful we'll have the resources to make a push for the play offs this season, and I'll base improvement on our league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So they didn't improve then? Despite finishing one place higher? Due to their league position being one place higher than the previous season yes they did. But the Stoke fans' and board disliked the way that position was obtained, therefore they've changed their manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 So Barcelona had their best team ever last season then Bris, given that they beat the 100 points barrier for the first time in their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Bris' argument only works in the top leagues of each country. In NPC your position is what counts at the end of the year, because it's more defining for your future than in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 So Barcelona had their best team ever last season then Bris, given that they beat the 100 points barrier for the first time in their history. I wouldn't say so.. They had their most successful league season last season.. But their 2009 side won the treble which would surely be better.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 I wouldn't say so.. They had their most successful league season last season.. But their 2009 side won the treble which would surely be better..But they got more points so surely they have improved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 The best analysis I can come up with is: As an individual team Derby went backwards in their standard of point collection but in the comparative like for like league table they didn't demise as much as the other teams so therefore improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I wouldn't say so.. They had their most successful league season last season.. But their 2009 side won the treble which would surely be better.. I've got no complaints.. This Barca team is the weakest Barca team since the early Rijkaard era.. I mean look at the following 2 teams from the early/end of Guardiolas era Make your mind up Bris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 Make your mind up Bris.That's a different argument so is irrelevant and changes the stance that you can only improve if you get more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 ask Stoke's chairman what he measures as improvement, ask any Prem chairman, and they will say league position. Simply because the money won for each position grows massively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Make your mind up Bris. My comment was in direct relation to the side Barca that played the 2nd leg against Bayern.. Especially in the 2nd half. That has nothing to do with it.. And like I mentioned, last year Barca improved in the league but their 2009 side won 6 trophies in a calender year so obviously they were better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 That's a different argument so is irrelevant and changes the stance that you can only improve if you get more points. I'm done with this as we're getting nowehere.. I just genuinely can't believe people think that winning less and losing more games than the previous season can be seen as an improvement.. And on the flip sidew that if you win more games than the previous season and lose less then that's not an improvement.. Such wayward thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 I'm done with this as we're getting nowehere.. I just genuinely can't believe people think that winning less and losing more games than the previous season can be seen as an improvement.. And on the flip sidew that if you win more games than the previous season and lose less then that's not an improvement.. Such wayward thinking..That was said in jest. If look at my previous post, does that not sum it up correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I'm done with this as we're getting nowehere.. I just genuinely can't believe people think that winning less and losing more games than the previous season can be seen as an improvement.. And on the flip sidew that if you win more games than the previous season and lose less then that's not an improvement.. Such wayward thinking.. In turn the rest of can't believe your refusal to take the vast number variables into account that impact on the points a team will collect during a season. If you wish to judge a teams improvement based on points the only way to do so would be to play the same teams, on the same dates, with the same referees etc again (much like your sprinters analogy where opponents, venues dates remain roughly the same). Of course in the real world everyone else does/doesn't improve along with you and measures their level of progress on league position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I'm done with this as we're getting nowehere.. I just genuinely can't believe people think that winning less and losing more games than the previous season can be seen as an improvement.. And on the flip sidew that if you win more games than the previous season and lose less then that's not an improvement.. Such wayward thinking.. Personally that's not accurate. Aside of the fact you're look purely at statistics and nothing else, whilst ignoring statistics like 'goals scored', 'goals conceded' and 'like for like' results against certain teams, the fact that you don't play the same 23 teams the following season makes it irrational to compare. There are 6 new teams in the league every season, and arguably, ALL six could and should be better than the six they are replacing, thus (theoretically) improving the quality of the league on the whole. Having less points, but finish higher would suggest the standard of the league on the whole is higher and the competition closer. Yes, Derby have made an improvement, but having less points would suggest that certain teams have improved 'more' than Derby have, and if you look at Watford, Cardiff, Palace, Leicester, Hull and Brighton ALL improved by a lot more than Derby did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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