rynny Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The NPC was at it's weakest ever last year.. Yet we lost more games than we won (something we didn't do in 2011-12) and we finished further away from 7th than we did in 2011-12 and we finished on less points than 2011-12.. If you want to take that as improvement then fair enough..So if we finished in 3rd this season on 86 points and lose in the play offs but win the league on 81 points it wouldn't be an improvement because we got less points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If we went up with less points than the season before I'd be livid, would clearly be a fluke and we should demand refusal of promotion until we could do it with 87 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So if we finished in 3rd this season on 86 points and lose in the play offs but win the league on 81 points it wouldn't be an improvement because we got less points? Never any point in comparing points totals because that relies on every other team doing the same as they did in previous years. In actuality, each team performs completely differently. A.k.a you can only beat what is infront of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 There is also a rumour that Fergie retired as he was embarrassed at winning the title with 89 points which got him 2nd place the season before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Never any point in comparing points totals because that relies on every other team doing the same as they did in previous years. In actuality, each team performs completely differently. A.k.a you can only beat what is infront of you.That's my point. Annoys me when Bris always bangs on about getting less points when we have finished higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Rynny, I'd like to ask why you are attempting to have a football discussion with someone who doesn't even know the offside rule? You'd be far better having one with your missus or cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What I cannot understand is why the Championship was adjudged to be 'weaker' this year. What is indisputable is that the difference in standard between most of the teams (top or bottom) has narrowed. Now will someone prove to me that is due to the top teams being weaker or, for that matter, that it is due to the bottom teams being stronger? It strikes me that the only way of gaining any insight into that is by looking at how teams who are in the Championship fared against teams outside the Championship - in the League Cup the Dirties and Middlesborough reached the quarter finals and in the FA Cup Millwall, Barnsley and Blackburn reached the quarter finals. In the FA Cup, Championship sides knocked out 6 Premier League sides and only two were themselves eliminated by lower-league opposition yet in the League Cup, which is a competition with seeded pairings, there were 15 occasions where a Championship side lost to a lower-league team and a miserly 3 wins over Premiership teams in the overall competitions. In the FA Cup, Championship sides put lower league sides in their place 20 times and were defeated by Premiership teams 7 times. All in all, inconclusive all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So if we finished in 3rd this season on 86 points and lose in the play offs but win the league on 81 points it wouldn't be an improvement because we got less points? Yes.. Tottenham improved last season from their 2011-12 season but finished one place lower.. Whilst performances can improve, it's the points total that counts in terms of league improvement.. If you finish 2nd one year on 85 points and then win the league next on 82 points you've not made an improvement.. You can't imagine the interview afterwards going.. Gary: 'So Rio, what was the difference between last season and this season?.. How did you manage to come on out top this year?' Rio: 'It was just consistancy Gary, this year we managed to be more consistant and really grind out the wins' Gary: 'But you finished with lower points Rio, surely that means you were less consistant?' Rio: 'Yes but we improved on our defending game and really managed to keep the points ticking over' Gary: 'Are you sure it wasn't because of Man City's awful title challenge?' Rio: 'It doesn't matter what the title challengers do, what's important is that we raise the bar every year and we've done that' Gary: Thanks Rio (muttering 'thick cvnt' as he walks away) Derby's performances have improved greatly.. But I can't understand how you can say that our league form has improved because it hasn't.. You go by averages.. This is what 61 points and our GD would look like over the past few years.. 2011-12 13th 2010-11 15th 2009-10 12th 2008-09 10th 2007-08 14th 2006-07 15th So you can see we benefited from a low points NPC along with 2008-09.. Given that the average points tally to reach the playoffs is 73 the closer you get to 73 each season the further you are improving.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Looking at points totals forgets about changes to other teams etc.. League position over 46 games dives the relative standing when compared to oponents We have improved compared to other teams in the division because we have finished higher than in the past. You can't compare points totals with previous years because we are playing against teams that are different (either through promotion,relegation or transfers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes.. Tottenham improved last season from their 2011-12 season but finished one place lower.. Whilst performances can improve, it's the points total that counts in terms of league improvement.. If you finish 2nd one year on 85 points and then win the league next on 82 points you've not made an improvement.. You can't imagine the interview afterwards going.. Gary: 'So Rio, what was the difference between last season and this season?.. How did you manage to come on out top this year?' Rio: 'It was just consistancy Gary, this year we managed to be more consistant and really grind out the wins' Gary: 'But you finished with lower points Rio, surely that means you were less consistant?' Rio: 'Yes but we improved on our defending game and really managed to keep the points ticking over' Gary: 'Are you sure it wasn't because of Man City's awful title challenge?' Rio: 'It doesn't matter what the title challengers do, what's important is that we raise the bar every year and we've done that' Gary: Thanks Rio (muttering 'thick cvnt' as he walks away) Derby's performances have improved greatly.. But I can't understand how you can say that our league form has improved because it hasn't.. You go by averages.. This is what 61 points and our GD would look like over the past few years.. 2011-12 13th 2010-11 15th 2009-10 12th 2008-09 10th 2007-08 14th 2006-07 15th So you can see we benefited from a low points NPC along with 2008-09.. Given that the average points tally to reach the playoffs is 73 the closer you get to 73 each season the further you are improving.. Ignore. Sugar, did I say that out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ignore. Sugar, did I say that out loud. Why reply to it with the word ignore? If you read it then you didn't ignore it.. And if you didn't read it why waste your time to reply to it? If you're offended by it then ignore it.. But why reply to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why reply to it with the word ignore? If you read it then you didn't ignore it.. And if you didn't read it why waste your time to reply to it? If you're offended by it then ignore it.. But why reply to it? Either A) To publicly show that although I did indeed waste my time reading it, anyway I'm ignoring it. I've got my fingers in my ears going nah nah ner nah nah as well. It's my choice. B) it showed my dislike of the post without then needing to come back with a thinly disguised and surely unwarranted, personal attack on your narrow minded boring repetitive views. C) I read it and I wish I ignored it. D) a reminder to ignore in future. I'll let you pick whichever one you want. None of them would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Either A) To publicly show that although I did indeed waste my time reading it, anyway I'm ignoring it. I've got my fingers in my ears going nah nah ner nah nah as well. It's my choice. B) it showed my dislike of the post without then needing to come back with a thinly disguised and surely unwarranted, personal attack on your narrow minded boring repetitive views. C) I read it and I wish I ignored it. D) a reminder to ignore in future. I'll let you pick whichever one you want. None of them would be wrong. Why don't you just have me on ignore then? Would make it much easier. It's like going to a Kiss concert and at the end just saying 'ignore' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes.. Tottenham improved last season from their 2011-12 season but finished one place lower.. Whilst performances can improve, it's the points total that counts in terms of league improvement.. If you finish 2nd one year on 85 points and then win the league next on 82 points you've not made an improvement.. You can't imagine the interview afterwards going.. Gary: 'So Rio, what was the difference between last season and this season?.. How did you manage to come on out top this year?' Rio: 'It was just consistancy Gary, this year we managed to be more consistant and really grind out the wins' Gary: 'But you finished with lower points Rio, surely that means you were less consistant?' Rio: 'Yes but we improved on our defending game and really managed to keep the points ticking over' Gary: 'Are you sure it wasn't because of Man City's awful title challenge?' Rio: 'It doesn't matter what the title challengers do, what's important is that we raise the bar every year and we've done that' Gary: Thanks Rio (muttering 'thick cvnt' as he walks away) Derby's performances have improved greatly.. But I can't understand how you can say that our league form has improved because it hasn't.. You go by averages.. This is what 61 points and our GD would look like over the past few years.. 2011-12 13th 2010-11 15th 2009-10 12th 2008-09 10th 2007-08 14th 2006-07 15th So you can see we benefited from a low points NPC along with 2008-09.. Given that the average points tally to reach the playoffs is 73 the closer you get to 73 each season the further you are improving..Let's turn it around then, sticking to your Man Utd analogy and say next year they achieve 88 points and finish 2nd does that mean they have improved despite not winning the league? If you think that is the case go ask all fans what they would rather, higher points total or higher league position. Every fan will say the latter, every fan, bar you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Let's turn it around then, sticking to your Man Utd analogy and say next year they achieve 88 points and finish 2nd does that mean they have improved despite not winning the league? If you think that is the case go ask all fans what they would rather, higher points total or higher league position. Every fan will say the latter, every fan, bar you. They finished on 89 points this year, so they wouldn't have improved no.. But if they, like Tottenham, beat next years points total but finish 2nd then they can say they've improved.. Let's imagine Derby finish next season on 65 points but finish in 12th.. Have we improved or not? I'll be the first to say we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Let's turn it around then, sticking to your Man Utd analogy and say next year they achieve 88 points and finish 2nd does that mean they have improved despite not winning the league? If you think that is the case go ask all fans what they would rather, higher points total or higher league position. Every fan will say the latter, every fan, bar you. Another anology.. Which Stoke looked better or which Stoke took more criticism? The one of 2 years ago which finished 14th on 45 points or.. The one last year which finished a place higher in 13th but on 42 points Or Bendan Rodgers Swansea who finsihed 11th on 47 points or Laudrup's Swansea who finished 9th on 46 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 They finished on 89 points this year, so they wouldn't have improved no.. But if they, like Tottenham, beat next years points total but finish 2nd then they can say they've improved.. Let's imagine Derby finish next season on 65 points but finish in 12th.. Have we improved or not? I'll be the first to say we have.Was following on from the points you put. I meant if Utd got more points next year than this but finished 2nd it wouldn't be an improvement, as they will have been overtaken by another team, they will have fallen behind. What about a team that stays up on 36 1 season then relegated on 42 the following? I can imagine the manager now "It's ok lads we got 6 points more than last season which shows we are better this year than last. Sod the league table position doesn't count it is how many points you get!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If you think that is the case go ask all fans what they would rather, higher points total or higher league position. Every fan will say the latter, every fan, bar you. League position. All day, every day. Take the season under Burley where we lost to Preston in the play off semi finals. That season we played some excellent football. Now look at the season we went up under R2-D2. That season we played extremely bland, route one stuff and a majority if our wins were by the odd goal and we ground them out. Did anyone give a toss that we regressed in the way we played??? Did they f**k cus we were too busy doing the Conga in Wembley car parks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They finished on 89 points this year, so they wouldn't have improved no.. But if they, like Tottenham, beat next years points total but finish 2nd then they can say they've improved.. Let's imagine Derby finish next season on 65 points but finish in 12th.. Have we improved or not? I'll be the first to say we have. No we haven't, it means there are 11 teams better than us, as opposed to 9, it would mean that we haven't progressed as well as other teams in the league. The points total is irrevalant, it's where you finish in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Was following on from the points you put. I meant if Utd got more points next year than this but finished 2nd it wouldn't be an improvement, as they will have been overtaken by another team, they will have fallen behind. What about a team that stays up on 36 1 season then relegated on 42 the following? I can imagine the manager now "It's ok lads we got 6 points more than last season which shows we are better this year than last. Sod the league table position doesn't count it is how many points you get!!" Yes they would have improved.. Regardless of how well others have done, it's all about your own side.. Take the Olympics for example.. Joke Bloggs is a 100m runner with a personal best of 9.85 in which he won the 2008 Olympics.. The next Olympics in 2012 he goes and smashes his record with a time of 9.75.. Unfortunately for him, Usain Bolt won in a time of 9.69 Has Joe Bloggs improved or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.