Mostyn6 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Isn't Busquets a defensive mid? Are you saying Barcelona and Spain don't intend to attack? I'm not even gonna get into a conversation about Barcelona. Unrelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I'm not even gonna get into a conversation about Barcelona. Unrelated. The point is you said if you play with a defensive mid you're looking to defend and not attack. Barce play with a defensive mid but attack. The importance of a defensive mid is related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Busqets spends more time in the opposition half then in his own, so per se, is NOT a defensive midfielder! They don't compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm so excited by the prospect on Dean Whitehead I'm going down to the ticket office to buy an additional season ticket just so I can, upon occassion, sit in a different place to witness his greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Can't believe this thread has even gotten to six pages. He's over the hill, over rated and he'll want to be over payed. He must be on at least £20k at Stoke and I can't imagine him wanting much less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Busqets spends more time in the opposition half then in his own, so per se, is NOT a defensive midfielder! They don't compare I seriously can't believe how you could say he doesn't play a defensive role for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I seriously can't believe you're talking about Sergio Busquets in a thread about Dean f*cking Whitehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I seriously can't believe how you could say he doesn't play a defensive role for them Well done, you've made me bite. I didn't want get involved in some bizarre digression about what tactics are employed by the world's best club side! For starters, this debate was about whether Dean Whitehead should be signed, and that digressed into whether we should sign a defensive midfielder to "defend for the last 15 minutes". My point of view, which may or may not be shared by others, is that just to do this is a negative mentality. Your team shouldn't adjust mentalities based on the clock. My opinion is that if a way of playing is good enough for 60, 65, 70 or whatever minutes, and your players are, then they should be good enough for 90. If the opposition are playing in such a way to effect your performance, that is a different matter altogether, and the reaction will be based on the events and not the clock. Even still, examples of Carrick and Busquets, who are generally 90 minute men when playing. To employ someone just to 'shut up shop' is a negative and almost defeatist decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well done, you've made me bite. I didn't want get involved in some bizarre digression about what tactics are employed by the world's best club side! For starters, this debate was about whether Dean Whitehead should be signed, and that digressed into whether we should sign a defensive midfielder to "defend for the last 15 minutes". My point of view, which may or may not be shared by others, is that just to do this is a negative mentality. Your team shouldn't adjust mentalities based on the clock. My opinion is that if a way of playing is good enough for 60, 65, 70 or whatever minutes, and your players are, then they should be good enough for 90. If the opposition are playing in such a way to effect your performance, that is a different matter altogether, and the reaction will be based on the events and not the clock. Even still, examples of Carrick and Busquets, who are generally 90 minute men when playing. To employ someone just to 'shut up shop' is a negative and almost defeatist decision. The last 15-20 minutes is where we've come unstuck in SOME games though, I think the stats will probably show that we're particularly bad at conceding in the last 15 of matches and I think it would be helpful to have a different CM option. I think this comes down to a lack of experience and dropping too deep to invite teams onto us, so I agree with you here that our tactics/mentality have been at fault and caused us to drop points. An older head (probably in that defensive mid position) could enable us to be better in those last 15 minutes or for the full 90 if circumstances suit. I don't think it's necessarily a case of being negative as for me this kind of player would act as a settling influence on those around him, break up play, help to retain possession, force the defence to retain a higher line and stop others running around like headless chickens (none of which I would class as being 'negative'). The key things for me here being someone to manage the game and galvanise those around them by using their experience. I'd also see this kind of player playing the odd away game too, not negative just a bit more controlled and a different option... I'm afraid we're not at the stage where we will be able to attack teams for 90 minutes and retain possession the entire time, we will be put under pressure at times. It would be helpful to have a different kind of player in the squad who can be an option for us when the going gets tough. There's a major difference between being a calming, defensive influence and being negative and having an old head to sit in front of the back four may also allow our attacking players more freedom to express themselves. Carrick does it for United, Viera did it for Arsenal, Makalele did it for Chelsea, as it stands we don't have this kind of player and if we can pick one up on a free for a pay as you play contract then I think we'd benefit from their experience, not just in the odd last 15 minutes but in and around the squad. If we don't get someone like this I don't think it's the end of the world and I see the priorities being LB and CB but if there is space in the budget for this kind of player I think we'd benefit from having that added experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 P.S. I don't necessarily thing Whitehead is the answer but it seemed to fit into the discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Robbie Savage was supposed to be this player. I really don't think this type of player can make that much of a difference in defending, however, removing someone more technical to accomodate this player could harm us doing the positive things. My point is, WHO do you drop to fit Whitehead in (or A.N.Other)? Bearing in mind, Clough already shoe-horns in all three of Bryson, Hendrick and Hughes when fit, Ward is a starter when fit, as it Coutts, as is Sammon, as will be Russell. So that is your seven outfield starters aside from defenders sorted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcdcfc28 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Are we even linked to the guy? The telegraph ain't said nothing, nothing from anyone on Twitter working for the local media about us being interested and Clough won't drop anyone from Hendrick, Bryson and Hughes so where would he fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 For me it would be a case by case, depending on circumstances, if we're not under pressure then I'd say keep things as they are, whatever formation that may be at the time. I think we're developing a squad capable of playing in several different formations and I wouldn't be surprised to see us mix it up a lot more next season. As I said, I don't think this kind of player would play all the time but assuming we play a version of 4-3-3 and are winning by a goal with 15 to go and we're under a lot of pressure, I would keep the midfield 3 and take off one of the strikers for this play to just sit in front of the back four and dictate in the middle of the park: 4-1-3-2. It would be their job to help us keep our shape, encourage the defensive line further up the pitch and give confidence for us to retain possession rather than hoofing it back to the opposition. I'd be looking for a calming influence rather than someone who runs about a lot chasing down back passes like Savage did. I don't think this kind of player has to be seen as negative but if you're going to do well in the Championship then you're going to have to grind out the occasional result and having this kind of option would help us to do that in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 WHO do you drop to fit Whitehead in (or A.N.Other)? The best option would be to rotate the squad to accommodate for form and fitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 can he only play cm? cos i think we need an older player who can play all over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Signed for Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Thank f**k for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posh Ram Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 meh, id rather have eustace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 meh, id rather have eustace... Surprise surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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