Can we improve with 4 more signings

[eddie]

I'm interested to see how he does out on loan this year.

 

Indeed. Perhaps his main problem is a lack of football at an appropriate level.

[eddie]

Try again Eddie.  Thats Cloughies choice

 

Yes, finally someone has said something that is unequivocal - it IS Cloughie's choice.

 

You know something else that is equally unequivocal?

 

Clough's is the only opinion that counts one jot.

[eddie]

He is Eddie LOL

 

Come on, curtains.

 

Pull yourself together.

[ramblur]

Indeed. Perhaps his main problem is a lack of football at an appropriate level.

The thing that puzzles me most is that we've given him a one year extension,only to intend sending him out on loan.If the recipient club were to pay all his wages,then fair enough-unless a full year loan we could recall him if he shines,get some value out of him next season,and possibly extend his contract further if he really surprises us.On the other hand,if he went out on loan for the season and we were picking up any of the tab,I don't really see the point.

[eddie]

The thing that puzzles me most is that we've given him a one year extension,only to intend sending him out on loan.If the recipient club were to pay all his wages,then fair enough-unless a full year loan we could recall him if he shines,get some value out of him next season,and possibly extend his contract further if he really surprises us.On the other hand,if he went out on loan for the season and we were picking up any of the tab,I don't really see the point.

 

Where does it say he's going out on loan for the whole season? I agree, that would be somewhat strange.

[ramblur]

Where does it say he's going out on loan for the whole season? I agree, that would be somewhat strange.

It doesn't eddie -that's why I gave the 2 scenarios.Of course another possibility could be that he does so well on a short term loan that the recipient club wanted to buy him in January.

[uttoxram75]

Tennis players get breaks every 2/3 games.

 

Sprinters only perform for 9-50 seconds, which is exactly my point.

 

People slating Martin and Le Fondre because visually they don't work as hard as other players.

 

How do you judge hard-work on a pitch? There is another cliche, "the first yard is in the head".

 

Sheringham, Shearer, Fowler, Ferdinand, Dublin, Merson, Lineker, Cantona, Van Nistelrooy, Bergkamp, Wright, Collymore, Sutton, Hasselbaink, Drogba, Torres, Owen, ...... NONE of these players would be considered 'hard-working' by comparison to someone like Conor Sammon, and another one as a player, Nigel Clough... NEVER ran for 90 minutes. Never hard-working.

 

Chasing backpasses is NOT the reason strikers would score a goal, the skill is spotting the opportunity and being able to react to it.

 

Strikers are 'reactive' and rely on reading the game. NO true great striker was a 'hard worker' in terms of 90 mins.

Poor argument. Some of those players worked constantly, making space, running channels, linking up, really don't understand where your going with this.

 

The two most successfull English teams in history, Liverpool of the late 70s and 80s, Man U of the 90s and 00s, have won countless titles based on incredibly hard work first and foremost.

 

Ian Rush used to close defenders down constantly for Liverpool in their glory years for instance.

 

Fergie's maxim was 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration

 

John O'Hare and Kevin Hector worked their socks off non stop for us in the 70's. Brian's teams were built on the principal of hard work.

 

Dean Saunders, Bobby Davison, Tommy Johnson, never gave a defender a seconds peace, they were at 'em, chasing, closing down, non-stop giving their all for the team.

 

Tommy Johnson is a good example. Paul Kitson was technically a far better player than Tommy. Who is remembered more fondly?

 

Super, super Tom, super, super Tom, super, super Tom, Super Tommy Johnson......

 

 

anyway, forgot what I'm debating now, enjoying Tesco's offer of 4 for 3 on Spitfire, Old Speckled Hen, Hopping Hare and Fursty Ferret, stuck for choice so got a couple of each!

[eddie]

And no cartoon strip involving fruit ever mentioned Paul Kitson.

 

"http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/08/4/4/0/1478282134690352" alt="1478282134690352">

[eddie]

 

 

 

anyway, forgot what I'm debating now, enjoying Tesco's offer of 4 for 3 on Spitfire, Old Speckled Hen, Hopping Hare and Fursty Ferret, stuck for choice so got a couple of each!

 

I did similar - only because of my age I picked up Old Tom, Old Thumper, Old Empire and Old Bob

[CornwallRam]

Incredible ive seen Doyle in U21s he aint good enough for 1ST TEAM and why is Atkins retained that  leaves us now with 5 keepers

 Six at present - seven on July 1 if we don't sell either of our 'number ones'

 

Atkins, Deeney, Leggy, FF, Grant, Morch, Etheridge

[CornwallRam]

I'm starting to worry now - I keep agreeing with Mostyn

 

Now I'll never sympathise with the rabidly anti-Nigel stuff, I do find much of Mostyn's player and tactical analysis rings true with me.

 

Sammon does have to chase down defenders because its the most useful thing he can do. In doing so he creates an occasional goal chance and reduces the quality of pass that defenders make up field.

 

However, in doing so he gets caught out of position a hell of a lot.

 

IMO the team would be better off with a centre-forward who spent more time in the centre-forward position. OK, we would lose the two goals a season gained by chasing back and the midfield might have to mark a little tighter, but that would be offset by the advantages of having someone to get on the end of crosses and be more available for balls out from our midfield.

[AndyB]

Yes but the plan is to sell Fielding and Legz and loan out Atkins. Let's see if the plan works before we start criticising it!

[Bridgford Ram]

I fully trust Nigel Clough to sign quality players, he has done it countless times already, i fully expect these players to have great first seasons and attract interest from higher placed clubs, then I expect them to fall out of favour and be told they can leave on a free/low priced transfer/loan till contract runs out.

Rough versions of this pattern has happened with Bailey, Robinson, Fielding and others.

I must also say that i am a supporter of Clough and the criticism above is one of the only ones I have of him.

[Bridgford Ram]

Deleted: Double post

[Ambitious]

I don't think there is as many fall-outs as people seem to think...

 

Bailey - he is our 5th choice centre midfielder, he did a good job when called upon but I don't think there is one Derby fan who thinks he would make our starting 11, and he won't improve sufficiently to keep on the bench. He doesn't offer another dimension either - he is similar to what we have. 

 

Robinson - He just ISN'T good enough, that's a fact - he gets goals, but 90% it's like playing with 10 men - he can do a job, no doubt but I don't think there will be many championship clubs WHO HAVE WATCHED HIM PLAY who will want him - you think Huddersfield will want him back? not a cat in hells chance, even for free!

 

Fielding - I understand what Clough has done here - if he can't cement his place as our number one, and another clubs POTY becomes available, even if Fielding is a good standard - does it make sense not to improve in all positions? I think fielding will be a bargain for whoever gets him, a good championship keeper! 

 

Shackell - Okay, I know it was a fall-out (straight from the horses mouth) but I would rather have players falling in line as a tighter group marching to a beat is better than people pulling in different directions though.

 

Commons - offered more money, a lot more money - out of our budget with an extra option than he wanted, perhaps too late (that's the only thing I could say) and Celtic got wind of it. Perhaps the only sale I could hold a grudge over.

 

Tyson - wants first team football every week, made that pure and simple - is he good enough for that here? I like him, think he is a worker and not as bad as people make out, but I don't think he should play every week and his wages are clearly excessive (by comments made)

 

Cywka - wasn't good enough, simple - despite what fans think. He showed bits and bobs, but too few and far apart! 

 

Legz - same as fielding! 

 

and I can't think of many more who people could argue with - I think Clough has the right formula for the team, young players + workers on the bench (who can add another dimension) like Buxton, Ben Davies...etc and it's about getting that starting 11 as strong as possible. I would perhaps add a few more that can come in with injuries, but, you need people to let players know their role... that's the most important for me - you can't promise the world to someone if you expect them to be on the bench, and in that case you have to let them go rather than get a player being a bad egg (as it were)

[Deeege42]

I think a goalscorer is badly needed and a cb ..johnny russell and gary mackay-steven would be two good aditions along with mayby luke chambers from ipswich, the squad is very young and in my view can only get better

[DcfcNews12]

We need a Centre back, Left Back, Right Winger and Striker.

 

The Centre Back and Left Back should be experienced but not too old. A bonus would be for height say a 6ft 3 + for both.

 

Right winger and Striker for me have to be Quick. We have players with good speed and energy but not amazing acceleration which stretches defences. Mason Bennett is someone who has this but needs to be in the u21s.

 

Id Personally get a loan in from now until Christmas for the Centre back as one of OB or Barker will be back around then and we would have Bucko and Keogh and Occasional one of the u21 lads.Bring in Forsyth who looks comfortable and adds real height but I see this as a comfortable signing in which we can slowly introduce Lowe and really bring on Hoganson in the development squad.

The right wing I would like  either Humprey,Taylor or Forrester all have pace and skill and the last 2 are real talents and young and would add that spark of excitement. In terms of a striker I would want Johnny Russell or Will grigg.

 

As already mentioned its not only the players that we bring that will improve us but the experience the players have got this season will improve us.

[rynny]

I don't think there is as many fall-outs as people seem to think...

Bailey - he is our 5th choice centre midfielder, he did a good job when called upon but I don't think there is one Derby fan who thinks he would make our starting 11, and he won't improve sufficiently to keep on the bench. He doesn't offer another dimension either - he is similar to what we have.

Robinson - He just ISN'T good enough, that's a fact - he gets goals, but 90% it's like playing with 10 men - he can do a job, no doubt but I don't think there will be many championship clubs WHO HAVE WATCHED HIM PLAY who will want him - you think Huddersfield will want him back? not a cat in hells chance, even for free!

Fielding - I understand what Clough has done here - if he can't cement his place as our number one, and another clubs POTY becomes available, even if Fielding is a good standard - does it make sense not to improve in all positions? I think fielding will be a bargain for whoever gets him, a good championship keeper!

Shackell - Okay, I know it was a fall-out (straight from the horses mouth) but I would rather have players falling in line as a tighter group marching to a beat is better than people pulling in different directions though.

Commons - offered more money, a lot more money - out of our budget with an extra option than he wanted, perhaps too late (that's the only thing I could say) and Celtic got wind of it. Perhaps the only sale I could hold a grudge over.

Tyson - wants first team football every week, made that pure and simple - is he good enough for that here? I like him, think he is a worker and not as bad as people make out, but I don't think he should play every week and his wages are clearly excessive (by comments made)

Cywka - wasn't good enough, simple - despite what fans think. He showed bits and bobs, but too few and far apart!

Legz - same as fielding!

and I can't think of many more who people could argue with - I think Clough has the right formula for the team, young players + workers on the bench (who can add another dimension) like Buxton, Ben Davies...etc and it's about getting that starting 11 as strong as possible. I would perhaps add a few more that can come in with injuries, but, you need people to let players know their role... that's the most important for me - you can't promise the world to someone if you expect them to be on the bench, and in that case you have to let them go rather than get a player being a bad egg (as it were)

Absolutely spot on.

[Ambitious]

I think a goalscorer is badly needed and a cb ..johnny russell and gary mackay-steven would be two good aditions along with mayby luke chambers from ipswich, the squad is very young and in my view can only get better

 

Luke Chambers  :wacko: on a rack at Ipswich and dogshite to boot... I think the rest is very good, Mackay-Steven and Russell would cost about 2million for the pair, maybe a bit more - think we'd struggle to fund that!