Tactics.

[Albert]

You can't fault the tactics if you're dominating, creating decent chances and generally have a grip on the game..

 

I haven't seen the game but it sounds like Derby created a few chances, and should have scored at least one goal before they did..

 

That's not Clough's fault.. That's simply the strikers being off form.. If we were creating very little then Clough should have changed it to give the team more width, or go through the middle, whatever the scenario.. But I got the impression that what we were doing was fine and all that was missing was a clinical head infront of goal..

 

On a side note, we've had some right clowns infront of goal over the past few years.. Out of everywhere on the pitch, uptop is probably the only position NC hasn't improved since walking through the door.. Strange that given that he was a striker back in his playing days..

What's more interesting though is that Clough generally gets the best return out his strikers. Some mightn't like them, but generally they get their career best totals under Clough. Speaks volumes about how much Clough has had to work with doesn't it?

[networker1884]

And going back to my original post, has anyone, in 4 years, seen Clough make a tactical substitution?

This is it isn't it. It's all we hear from you. You bang on about Derby being rubbish, and Clough being rubbish, and the players being rubbish, when in all honesty whats more rubbish than all of them is you. As a supporter you're terrible. I'm not sure why you support the club, because this is all we hear. I support Derby because I love it, I'm happy supporting them, I enjoy being apart of it and I hopeful of a good future. I see none of that from you. And it just begs the question to what you're doing...it's boring Troy. Boring, unhelpful, and fundamentally pointless. So bugger off or change the tune.

[TroyDyer]

1. We had a hold of the have first half. Second, we didn't. That's my point. No tactical changes to make things better, when things aren't working. No plan b.

I wasn't being agro, I was saying has he made a tactical change in 4 years. The best we have is buxton to sure up the defence...

[Bris Vegas]

What's more interesting though is that Clough generally gets the best return out his strikers. Some mightn't like them, but generally they get their career best totals under Clough. Speaks volumes about how much Clough has had to work with doesn't it?

 

He hasn't helped himself in that department..

 

The likes of Sammon, Tyson, Maguire, Porter have been poor signings and he's yet to bring in any real flair players or matchwinners..

 

The only striker he's brought in that I feel has been a success is Theo but that's only the return for what we paid for him.. I'd hardly class him as top 6 material..

 

I also agree with Troy about supporters being 'content' with being mediocre and Clough's inability to really see the game and make changes accordingly to what's happening on the pitch.. But in all seriousness, I don't expect him to, he's far too stubborn to admit he's wrong from the start and if his way doesn't win then it's everyone else's fault be it the referee, the woodwork, the oppositions higher budget, the player who gave the ball away at a key time or the GK..

 

In fairness to the game changing switches, there aren't that many managers out there capable of doing it or they don't have the resources to do so.. It's easy to see Mourinho do it every week but then again he's got Kaka, Benzema and Modric on the bench..

[CrimsonRam]

I think out of everybody on this forum, including the forest fans, I have never actively disliked a person as much as Troy. He honestly doesn't come across as a Derby supporter. I hope I don't end up like him

[Albert]

He hasn't helped himself in that department..

 

The likes of Sammon, Tyson, Maguire, Porter have been poor signings and he's yet to bring in any real flair players or matchwinners..

 

The only striker he's brought in that I feel has been a success is Theo but that's only the return for what we paid for him.. I'd hardly class him as top 6 material..

 

I also agree with Troy about supporters being 'content' with being mediocre and Clough's inability to really see the game and make changes accordingly to what's happening on the pitch.. But in all seriousness, I don't expect him to, he's far too stubborn to admit he's wrong from the start and if his way doesn't win then it's everyone else's fault be it the referee, the woodwork, the oppositions higher budget, the player who gave the ball away at a key time or the GK..

 

In fairness to the game changing switches, there aren't that many managers out there capable of doing it or they don't have the resources to do so.. It's easy to see Mourinho do it every week but then again he's got Kaka, Benzema and Modric on the bench..

Porter looked good before his injury, he was scoring too. I do wonder what things would have been like if he'd managed to stay fit.

The problem with strikers is that they're extremely expensive. Even unproven lower league strikers cost piles of cash. For what we've spent on strikers, we haven't done badly, and Clough has managed them well. We just haven't been one of those sides that's managed to hit the jackpot as such. Those players are very rare though.

£1.2 mil is a lot for a defender, but nothing for a striker compared to some of the money that's thrown around in this division on them. Even strikers like Lambert, yet to play above League One level in his late 20s, cost Soton in excess of £1 mil. Just for comparison though, think about the kind of money that Forest have thrown around since we (and they) returned to this division (goals per game in brackets):

Joe Garner ~ £1.2 mil - 9 goal in 46 appearances (0.20)

Robert Earnshaw ~ £2.7 mil - 38 goals in 102 appearances (0.37)

Dexter Blackstock ~ £1.5 mil - 34 goals in 116 appearances (0.29)

David McGoldrick ~ £1 mil - 8 goals in 63 appearances (0.13)

Marcus Tudguy ~ £500k - 12 goals in 56 appearances (0.21)

Ishmael Miller ~ £1.2 mil - 3 in 21 appearances (0.14)

Simon Cox ~ £2 mil - 4 goals in 35 appearances (0.11)

Total ~ £10.1 mil for 7 players, average of ~£1.4 mil per player - 108 goals in 439 appearances (0.25)

So basically, if it were a linear relationship, that would be 0.179 goals per game per £1 million spent on a striker for Forest over this time. 20 goals a season for a striker is 0.435 goals per game if they play every game, so by the Forest price scale that is a casual ~2.4 mil starting price for a "20 goal a season striker" should they play every game. Say they can only manage 35 games a season that goes up to £3.2 mil. That's more than Nigel has had to spend on strikers since he's been here. Going the other way, £1.2 mil should get a striker who can score around 0.215 per game, or ~10 over 46 games (7-8 over 35).

Basically, I find it hard to blame Nigel for not being able to miraculously pluck a star striker from the aether, they are few and far between, and anyone approaching proven, even at lower league level, costs in excess of 7 figures. Young and a great season at League One level you say... yeah, how's £8 mil sound?

[AndyB]

Tactics my @rse. We dominated the game and looked the likely winners all the way through until the 92nd minute. We scored what looked a decent goal in the second half too.

[uttoxram75]

I've deleted some posts on here due to  personal abuse.

 

Leave it out please gents.

[VulcanRam]

Boooo let's have the personal abuse back.

I agree with the point that one of the biggest frustrations about NC is his subs. As the second half wore on we were dying for an injection of pace or someone to create something from wide, just to step things up and go for the win. Ward was sulking and coutts was playing as a third CM for some reason.

But we were stiffed by the officials big time yesterday, along with our pathetic inability to score a penalty.

[midtableforever]

Boooo let's have the personal abuse back.

I agree with the point that one of the biggest frustrations about NC is his subs. As the second half wore on we were dying for an injection of pace or someone to create something from wide, just to step things up and go for the win. Ward was sulking and coutts was playing as a third CM for some reason.

But we were stiffed by the officials big time yesterday, along with our pathetic inability to score a penalty.

Corrected that for you.

[AndyB]

Apart from the 7 goals we'd scored in our previous 3 games!

[midtableforever]

Yeah, and 5 goals in 7 games before that! 

[AndyB]

Yes, hardly a pathetic inability to score!

[RamNut]

I agree with those who say we dominated. Therefore there was no issue with tactics.

Furthermore - apart from Sammon hitting the post and ward fluffing the penalty - our strikers didnt really keep missing.

Several times as we passed it around their box, we were crying out for a bruce rioch or a gerry daly or a charlie george to SHOOT

and hit the target. Hendrick had a couple of tame efforts, Ward kept floating it over the bar, but they were pinned back in the box in numbers. It was difficult to get a clean strike at goal.

Finally.....jacobs came on as sub, put in one beautiful cross which just needed a touch, and was then brought down in the box. If that had been given would it have been a good substitution.

Two controversial refereeing decisions cost us, but if we'd scored the penalty and gone in at half time with a lead we would probably have won. They would have been forced to come out. The longer it was 0-0 the more confident they became.

Nothing to sweat about.

Enjoy the sunshine.

[AndyB]

They are quite solid though.

[LittleEatonRam]

We huffed and puffed and struggled to break down a poor Ipswich side. We might have been all over them, but it was only in the sense of 'pressure' i.e. possession and hopeful balls into the box looking for a ricochet or lucky bounce. How much did we (or they, for that matter) create in terms of genuine chances?

 

Another poor quality game in a dreadful league.

 

We deserved at least a point, mind.

[Alph]

I do get frustrated with Nige sticking with the starting 11 when something is clearly not working. But yesterday wasn't one of them.

Among our chances were a 1v1 and a penalty. There's a thread about Theo now. That tells you where it went wrong yesterday.

[Duracell]

I do get frustrated with Nige sticking with the starting 11 when something is clearly not working. But yesterday wasn't one of them.

Among our chances were a 1v1 and a penalty. There's a thread about Theo now. That tells you where it went wrong yesterday.

Hasn't Theo had three shots on target in 8 apps for Hudders? He isn't the answer to anything.

 

Had a mate I brought along to the game as a neutral, he said our standout player was Bryson, and second to him was probably Sammon. He didn't get why he got so much hate. His exact words were that he looked like a competent Championship striker short of confidence. I'm inclined to agree.

 

Sammon's turn and that one on one he created from it very quickly turned into a half-chance, because he took an extra touch due to not having the confidence to shoot. His next one on one looked rush. He was also thoroughly p1ssed off with the linesman for flagging his assist offside and had a few words to say to him...

 

With confidence and luck, Sammon would have had a brace and an assist yesterday, and those are two things he doesn't have. I remember the camera shot of him after Coutts' goal against Leeds, when he ran back to the centre circle rather than joining in with the celebrations. He was kind of smiling, yeah, but also kind of grimacing, and his whole body language just said "oh ******, I've missed again".

 

The man needs a holiday in a country where no one has heard of Derby County and a good pre-season. He's not going to come good this season, if he ever does.

[TroyDyer]

I think out of everybody on this forum, including the forest fans, I have never actively disliked a person as much as Troy. He honestly doesn't come across as a Derby supporter. I hope I don't end up like him

Fancy a pint?

[davenportram]

We huffed and puffed and struggled to break down a poor Ipswich side. We might have been all over them, but it was only in the sense of 'pressure' i.e. possession and hopeful balls into the box looking for a ricochet or lucky bounce. How much did we (or they, for that matter) create in terms of genuine chances?

Another poor quality game in a dreadful league.

We deserved at least a point, mind.

Ipswich are not a poor team defensively - not conceded a goal in five games now. Is it surprising they were hard to break down?