Championship Killie

[North_Stand_Ram]

Bruswick is a must.

 

Sammon has been a good signing but not worth 1.2m.

 

Bryson, for what we paid, has been another class. Top signing

 

 

Hope you enjoy the mactch and hopefully a rams win

 

 

Sheeeeep

[EastKentRam]

Fair play for coming down Killieboy. Hope you have a great trip and make a good weekend of it.

 

Bryson is massive for us. Absolutely massive and don't let EKR's comments fool you. We're not the same side if he doesn't play. He's tidy on the ball without being spectacular and more often than not he's the one busting his balls trying to get on the end of a one two. I don't know the stats for the whole league but I do know he works harder than any other Derby player, funnily enough with Conor Sammon probably running him a close second. It must be the water up there.

 

Sammon, I love him. I think he's a great team player. I don't care that he's not prolific although I'd prefer if he'd smashed in 15 by now. I don't care that the ball bounces away from him. He gets stick for missing volleys when the balls 5 yards behind him. He gets stick for mis controlling a ball he has no right to hold. He gets stick for playing for Ireland from people who have likely never been picked for the school starting 11 and I mean the reserves as well.

 

He gets hardly any praise for doing anything good as well, for example hardly anyone ever notices when he plays a ball that leads to a goal, it must have been a fluke (forest). If he does score it will definitely have just hit him and gone in. He wouldn't know what had happened cos he's awful just read that 30 page thread!!

 

You'll likely do what most away fans do. I say most because we've played really nicely  for 90% of our home games but we've been strangely flat on occasions as well. You'll go away thinking we're an energetic tidy little side, we can play a bit but we're  lacking a bit of experience and you'll definitely go away thinking that Conor Sammon chases everything, battles for everything and gives the whole back four (not just "his" centre half) a real workover all game.

 

I'll leave you with a quote from Jamie Ward, his team mate responding to the unfair criticism coming from Derby fans.

 

"Football is about opinions," said Ward. "If you have a football brain, you will realise what he does for the team"http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1" alt="icon1">. The whole team benefits from the work he puts in.

 

I think Jamie bolded that bit not me ;-)

 

Safe trip and hope you bring us some luck. 2-1 to the Rams ex Killy boys getting all three!

 

So your opinion on Sammon is more valid than anyone elses? You're the football guru who see's stuff Sammon does that a lot of the crowd doesnt? The quote you're using to back up your own argument is from one of his own team mates, great evidence.

 

You could probably only find a handful of quotes of footballers from across the world, criticising a fellow professional on their footballing abilities. It's the most pointless quote to back up an argument, so I wish people would stop using it. Of course he's going to be complimentary, he's his own team mate for f*ck sake. 

 

Also, you admit he doesnt score goals and you admit his ball control isnt the best. This is what people see as major flaws to a strikers game that is generally holding the side back. Dont think you have some superior football brain just because you can overlook these errors. 

 

Nobody denies that he works hard and puts defenders under pressure, I applaud his effort and commitment. What you seem to fail to understand is that good footballers normally get praise for is things they do with the football, not for being athletic and being able to run around. Working hard shouldnt be praised, it should be expected of a professional footballer. We only notice Sammons sprinting around cos he's basically the only player with a license to sprint around after the ball whilst the other players have to hold their position. 

 

Notice how you can only give one example of where Sammon played a ball that led to a goal, although I think he did away at Ipswich as well if I remember correctly. You like to think that people dont give him credit for this, where in fact everybody agrees he done well for the goal at Forest. But people who refuse to admit that Sammon overall is a poor footballer, like/have to make out he's beaten 5 players and threaded a through ball as his positive contributions with the ball at his feet are so few and far between, this contribution has to be overexagerrated.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but the end of that post was so condescending and patronising, it had to be said.

[ronnieronalde]

So your opinion on Sammon is more valid than anyone elses? You're the football guru who see's stuff Sammon does that a lot of the crowd doesnt? The quote you're using to back up your own argument is from one of his own team mates, great evidence.

 

You could probably only find a handful of quotes of footballers from across the world, criticising a fellow professional on their footballing abilities. It's the most pointless quote to back up an argument, so I wish people would stop using it. Of course he's going to be complimentary, he's his own team mate for f*ck sake. 

 

Also, you admit he doesnt score goals and you admit his ball control isnt the best. This is what people see as major flaws to a strikers game that is generally holding the side back. Dont think you have some superior football brain just because you can overlook these errors. 

 

Nobody denies that he works hard and puts defenders under pressure, I applaud his effort and commitment. What you seem to fail to understand is that good footballers normally get praise for is things they do with the football, not for being athletic and being able to run around. Working hard shouldnt be praised, it should be expected of a professional footballer. We only notice Sammons sprinting around cos he's basically the only player with a license to sprint around after the ball whilst the other players have to hold their position. 

 

Notice how you can only give one example of where Sammon played a ball that led to a goal, although I think he did away at Ipswich as well if I remember correctly. You like to think that people dont give him credit for this, where in fact everybody agrees he done well for the goal at Forest. But people who refuse to admit that Sammon overall is a poor footballer, like/have to make out he's beaten 5 players and threaded a through ball as his positive contributions with the ball at his feet are so few and far between, this contribution has to be overexagerrated.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but the end of that post was so condescending and patronising, it had to be said.

One of these days you'll reply without adding an un-needed swear word. Seriuosly is that too much to ask?

 

Now where did I say that my opinion was above anyone elses East Kent. What I did is quote his team mate who has played at a pretty high level seems to think he's ok and that's good enough for me. You've appointed yourself judge and jury on Sammon yet I'm not entirely sure of your credentials on that front.

 

 

I'm not saying he's a world beater. I'm just saying I like him and those that say he can't play football clearly don't know what they're talking about. Not based on my opinion but based on the opinions of all of those managers who keep picking him to play a game you say he's rubbish at.

 

If you found some middle ground we could talk about it but you've gone to the very far extreme by saying he's awful and you won't budge from that. He's not awful at all. Should I take your opinion or should I take Giovanni Trappatonis opinion. Roberto Martinez's opinion or East Kent Rams opinion?

 

By the way the only part of my first post aimed at you was the bit where you said you wouldn't watch them play if they were in your garden.

 

I think that about sums it up for me.

[EastKentRam]

One of these days you'll reply without adding an un-needed swear word. Seriuosly is that too much to ask?

 

Now where did I say that my opinion was above anyone elses East Kent. What I did is quote his team mate who has played at a pretty high level seems to think he's ok and that's good enough for me. You've appointed yourself judge and jury on Sammon yet I'm not entirely sure of your credentials on that front.

 

 

I'm not saying he's a world beater. I'm just saying I like him and those that say he can't play football clearly don't know what they're talking about. Not based on my opinion but based on the opinions of all of those managers who keep picking him to play a game you say he's rubbish at.

 

If you found some middle ground we could talk about it but you've gone to the very far extreme by saying he's awful and you won't budge from that. He's not awful at all. Should I take your opinion or should I take Giovanni Trappatonis opinion. Roberto Martinez's opinion or East Kent Rams opinion?

 

By the way the only part of my first post aimed at you was the bit where you said you wouldn't watch them play if they were in your garden.

 

I think that about sums it up for me.

 

You implied that you've got this superior footballing brain that others havent got which makes your opinion more valid, as the great Jamie Ward, that intellectual footballing genius, agrees with you. As I said which you've decided to ignore, praise from a team mate as evidence for his ability is useless, it holds little weight.

 

Once again, you're making out that peole who dont rate him persecute him to the extent that we're saying he can barely walk. I'm not saying he cant play football, I and others are saying he cant play football to the level which we believe necessary to take this club forward.

 

Your argument of 'these professional managers pick him so he must be good' is so weak it barely requires a response. It's like when you hear of footballers say to journalists or fans, 'you've never played professional football so you dont know what you're talking about', it's bullsh*t (yes I swore, get over it). I suppose Eric Djemba Djemba is good enough to play for some of the best teams in the world because Alex Ferguson picked him to play for Man United. I suppose just because they're professional managers they're never, ever wrong. Based on your argument, every professional football player is good enough to be playing at their current level because a certain professional manager has picked/bought them there. Based on your argument every supporter, journalist, critic etc opinion on a player is worthless because a professional manager has picked them, so we should just all agree with them. Based on your argument you agree with every manager you respect in their decisions purely because they're a professional manager.

 

Obviously Martinez' opinion is that Sammon isnt good enough to play Premier League football, otherwise he would have started him more and wouldnt have sold him. Now he's dropped down to the Championship and still he cant score or create goals.

[ramLAD]

In the opening few minutes Sammon will no doubt hold the ball up, chase everything, control a few balls, make a few passes but I GUARENTEE you now, his first mistake will be the only contribution noted by Derby "fans" and they will be up shouting, moaning, jeering and all his earlier work will be forgotten about.

 

If you took some of the posts seriously about Sammon you'd think, he's never controlled a ball, he's never won a header, he's never made a tackle, he's never completed a single pass and never scored a goal that didn't bobble in off his shin or knee. I like Sammon, but I don't let they sway my view on him, I know he's not the best player in the world but he certainly isn't as bad as some like to make out.

 

Bryson was our player of the year last year, Bryson was untouchable amongst the Derby ranks, everybody loved him.......now after a couple injuries and a few off games people have forgotten about the Bryson of old. That's just Derby fans for you, most of them are a joke.

 

You've got to appreciate others opinions. You aren't superior to the other "fans". People like you are the problem. Quit your jibba jivin. 

[ronnieronalde]

You implied that you've got this superior footballing brain that others havent got which makes your opinion more valid, as the great Jamie Ward, that intellectual footballing genius, agrees with you. As I said which you've decided to ignore, praise from a team mate as evidence for his ability is useless, it holds little weight.

 

Once again, you're making out that peole who dont rate him persecute him to the extent that we're saying he can barely walk. I'm not saying he cant play football, I and others are saying he cant play football to the level which we believe necessary to take this club forward.

 

Your argument of 'these professional managers pick him so he must be good' is so weak it barely requires a response. It's like when you hear of footballers say to journalists or fans, 'you've never played professional football so you dont know what you're talking about', it's bullsh*t (yes I swore, get over it). I suppose Eric Djemba Djemba is good enough to play for some of the best teams in the world because Alex Ferguson picked him to play for Man United. I suppose just because they're professional managers they're never, ever wrong. Based on your argument, every professional football player is good enough to be playing at their current level because a certain professional manager has picked/bought them there. Based on your argument every supporter, journalist, critic etc opinion on a player is worthless because a professional manager has picked them, so we should just all agree with them. Based on your argument you agree with every manager you respect in their decisions purely because they're a professional manager.

 

Obviously Martinez' opinion is that Sammon isnt good enough to play Premier League football, otherwise he would have started him more and wouldnt have sold him. Now he's dropped down to the Championship and still he cant score or create goals.

 

 

Come on East Kent. Stop trying to cause world war three.

 

On the first bold.

 

I thought I'd already tried to answer that in the last post. Somehow it got missed or ignored.

 

No I didn't. I didn't imply that at all. I just answered a post from someone asking an opinion. You've interpretted that to look like I'm saying I'm better than you and others? Give over. You're way to defensive and argumentative.

 

What do you mean by my argument is so weak it barely needs a response. What a load of tosh. So let me get this right again. I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.

 

Jamie Ward says he does a lot for the team but that gets ignored

Managers at all levels of football pick him, play him AND pay him but that should be ignored as well.

 

East Kent Ram a 20 year old from Kent with no experience within the game at a professional level says he's rubbish and to be fair it's not only him you aim your knowledge of the game towards and THAT's the reason I'm supposed to stop posting that I disagree?

 

Where are all of these opinions from journalists and critics that say Sammon is garbage. Do you mean just on the forums? because that's the only place I've seen anything negative. None of the respected journalists or critics have written anything.

 

By the way. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I disagree. Surely that's allowed without someone getting their panties in a twist?

 

On the second bold.

 

Maybe this is a ridiculous concept to football fans. All I am saying here is if I've got two opinions alongside each other, one coming from an International manager who has won pretty much everything the other coming from you. I'm holding his opinion in higer regard because it's his job. He's been doing it for quite a while as well.

 

That would be the same if it was EastKentRam v's Trappatoni or ronnieronalde vs trappatoni. Neither of us knows a jot about football compared to him.

[Ramarena]

One of these days you'll reply without adding an un-needed swear word. Seriuosly is that too much to ask?

 

Now where did I say that my opinion was above anyone elses East Kent. What I did is quote his team mate who has played at a pretty high level seems to think he's ok and that's good enough for me. You've appointed yourself judge and jury on Sammon yet I'm not entirely sure of your credentials on that front.

 

 

I'm not saying he's a world beater. I'm just saying I like him and those that say he can't play football clearly don't know what they're talking about. Not based on my opinion but based on the opinions of all of those managers who keep picking him to play a game you say he's rubbish at.

 

If you found some middle ground we could talk about it but you've gone to the very far extreme by saying he's awful and you won't budge from that. He's not awful at all. Should I take your opinion or should I take Giovanni Trappatonis opinion. Roberto Martinez's opinion or East Kent Rams opinion?

 

By the way the only part of my first post aimed at you was the bit where you said you wouldn't watch them play if they were in your garden.

 

I think that about sums it up for me.

 

I'd take Martinez's opinion- realised he bought a bit of a lemon and got rid after only 6 months. 

 

In all honesty I think Sammon is an o.k option to have in our squad as our striking options are not great, if we are aiming for top six then he would make an ok rotation player but not a first choice. We've also paid far too much for him. 

[VulcanRam]

Anyway, welcome Killie lads.

 

Sammon's been ok - some weeks looks quality, some weeks looks awful. Generally its the basics that can let him down - on an off-day he can make the easy stuff look impossible - but there's also plenty to be encouraged about, and I have no problem with him being in the team.

 

Bryson has been a superb signing and remains our most important midfielder.

 

Hope you enjoy your time here. 

[EastKentRam]

Come on East Kent. Stop trying to cause world war three.

 

On the first bold.

 

I thought I'd already tried to answer that in the last post. Somehow it got missed or ignored.

 

No I didn't. I didn't imply that at all. I just answered a post from someone asking an opinion. You've interpretted that to look like I'm saying I'm better than you and others? Give over. You're way to defensive and argumentative.

 

What do you mean by my argument is so weak it barely needs a response. What a load of tosh. So let me get this right again. I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.

 

Jamie Ward says he does a lot for the team but that gets ignored

Managers at all levels of football pick him, play him AND pay him but that should be ignored as well.

 

East Kent Ram a 20 year old from Kent with no experience within the game at a professional level says he's rubbish and to be fair it's not only him you aim your knowledge of the game towards and THAT's the reason I'm supposed to stop posting that I disagree?

 

Where are all of these opinions from journalists and critics that say Sammon is garbage. Do you mean just on the forums? because that's the only place I've seen anything negative. None of the respected journalists or critics have written anything.

 

By the way. I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that I disagree. Surely that's allowed without someone getting their panties in a twist?

 

On the second bold.

 

Maybe this is a ridiculous concept to football fans. All I am saying here is if I've got two opinions alongside each other, one coming from an International manager who has won pretty much everything the other coming from you. I'm holding his opinion in higer regard because it's his job. He's been doing it for quite a while as well.

 

That would be the same if it was EastKentRam v's Trappatoni or ronnieronalde vs trappatoni. Neither of us knows a jot about football compared to him.

 

You clearly highlighted the point 'If you have a footballing brain', emphasising the point that those who dont rate Sammon, havent got a footballing brain. If that's not what you meant from highlighting that point then please explain what you did mean? Cos you obviously agree with what Jamie Ward is saying. 

 

How many times has it got to be said, quotes from players and managers picking him shouldnt be ignored, but it shouldnt be used as evidence in an argument of the players abilities because there's so many flaws with it. I've already stated the flaws on using a Jamie Ward quote, which you ignore. If you rate Trappatoni so highly then would you rather us have Simon Cox or Kevin Doyle up front over Sammon? Both of which Trappatoni has picked for his side far more than Sammon. Based on your logic, you would take both of those players over Sammon.

 

You clearly base your opinions on what other people say and do about football, rather than what you see for yourself, try forming your own opnions, you might enjoy it. If you counter argued my reasons for why I dont rate Sammon, like his goal scoring/creative/ball control abilities instead of, 'so and so picked him, they must be right, I agree with them' then we could have debated it properly.

 

I only became defensive because of the way in which you put your point across which I stated in my first paragraph. Apologies if that's not what you meant, but it certainly looks the way in which I interpreted it. 

[ronnieronalde]

You clearly highlighted the point 'If you have a footballing brain', emphasising the point that those who dont rate Sammon, havent got a footballing brain. If that's not what you meant from highlighting that point then please explain what you did mean? Cos you obviously agree with what Jamie Ward is saying. 

 

How many times has it got to be said, quotes from players and managers picking him shouldnt be ignored, but it shouldnt be used as evidence in an argument of the players abilities because there's so many flaws with it. I've already stated the flaws on using a Jamie Ward quote, which you ignore. If you rate Trappatoni so highly then would you rather us have Simon Cox or Kevin Doyle up front over Sammon? Both of which Trappatoni has picked for his side far more than Sammon. Based on your logic, you would take both of those players over Sammon.

 

You clearly base your opinions on what other people say and do about football, rather than what you see for yourself, try forming your own opnions, you might enjoy it. If you counter argued my reasons for why I dont rate Sammon, like his goal scoring/creative/ball control abilities instead of, 'so and so picked him, they must be right, I agree with them' then we could have debated it properly.

 

I only became defensive because of the way in which you put your point across which I stated in my first paragraph. Apologies if that's not what you meant, but it certainly looks the way in which I interpreted it. 

 

I took the quote that I used today from the Conor Sammon is awful thread. That was the same comment I made then. partly tongue in cheek but partly to show how ridiculous it is that so many of us think we know more than those involved in the game.

 

it was a direct cut and paste. I just didn't unbold it.

 

 

Let me ask you another couple of very personal questions East Kent and I hate to do this. When was the last time apart from the Leicester game you saw Sammon play 90 minutes live.

 

Secondly, do you have ramsplayer? if so let's exchange details somehow and we can watch the latest instalment they put up today. Let's watch 50 goals fly in and see how often he's involved at all.

 

You keep telling me I'm ignoring you on the Jamie Ward quote not being substantial enough. I'm not ignoring you I just disagree.

 

I base my opinions on what I watch and I watch A LOT, but when someone who knows more about the game than me tells me something that makes my opinon wrong or invalid i'm not so arrogant that I'd dismiss it.

 

I have to believe someone who has made a very successful career from the game knows more than I do. I take it as a lesson to try to look for areas to improve the way I  judge things overall.

 

On the latest bolded part. It's a waste of time. I've tried already. I tried to highlight the good work he did at Leicester last week. It get's missed or it gets ignored or it gets washed over as "not the right qualities in a striker.

 

On your other question Cox, Doyle or Sammon

 

Probably Cox. Just.

[Derbiean]

Sammon for me at the moment is a average player who is low on confidence and its my belief he needs to be dropped just to have a break, in particular to stop all of those "supporters" who give him abuse the moment his name is announced over the PA system.

 

Bryson, as been said an absolute machine, terrific box to box player, been a bit off recently having come back from injury hopefully he'll back to his old self soon enough.

[ladyram]

Ok guys- take a breath!

Before anybody writes another essay in reply can I ask a favour?

STOP ARGUING!

It's doing me head in. For what it's worth I have read all replies and think both of you have some valid points, but now I reckon you need to agree to disagree because it's just going round in circles now.

So please, for the sake of my sanity and because I've gorra bad head, can we just move on gents?

[uttoxram75]

Me and a mate are coming down from Kilmarnock on Friday to see the game against Bristol to see how Sammon, Bryson and on the opposite side Liam Kelly are getting on down south. Looking forward to my first English game what the match day experience like ? Where is the best pubs to drink pre and post match ?

What's your opinions on the fish and bryson ?

 

Before the match......

 

Opposite the train station the Merry Widows, small, proper old pub, Rams memorabilia on the walls, next door the Waterfall, while average beer-wise its a great old building, big screens, food, etc, then as Boycie says, 100 yards or so up the road to the Brunswick and the Alex, great historic pubs with excellent ales, then 10/15min walk to the ground.

 

After the match.....

 

up the town centre, dunno, some younger chaps will tell you the best bars for a Friday night....

 

have a good trip lads.

[DCFCfranco]

So you can sort of see what derby fans think of Connor Sammon Killie. Bit of a mix...

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

You've got to appreciate others opinions. You aren't superior to the other "fans". People like you are the problem. Quit your jibba jivin. 

 

I'm the problem because I support my own players?

 

I listen to other folks opinions, we have a discussion about it and then we decide that I'm right. Who said I was superior?

[Scott129]

As predicted, we have another Sammon-based argument.

[VulcanRam]

As predicted, we have another Sammon-based argument.

 

I blame the Scottish, they started it!!

[RodleyRam]

I'm more of a tuna kinda guy tbh.

 

I'll get my coat

[Bris Vegas]

Can I just say I have immense footballing knowledge.. I'm in the top 1% in the world..

 

And Sammon is carp

 

case closed.

[RodleyRam]

Can I just say I have immense footballing knowledge.. I'm in the top 1% in the world..

 

And Sammon is carp

 

case closed.

I think we need an 'unbiased' graph from Blbert to prove that Bris!