Clough

[rynny]

We are 7% down on season tickets at this stage. We are not 8,000 down on gates this season compared to last we are less than 3,000 down.

The report said that I read said 10%, but either way it is down. Sorry should have been clearer, since Clough has been in charge it has dropped nearly 8000.

[rynny]

Like a cluster of other sides we face the twin possibilities of striving for top 10 and being dragged into the relegation mix.Clough has already said that we're aiming to win the last 3 games (serving the first possibility),but has also (rightly) said it's important that we don't lose to Posh (serving the second).The trouble is,some are now portraying this as a manager going into a game with the avoidance of defeat as the number 1 priority.This simply isn't true-the number one priority is to win (thereby getting mathematically safe) and try and move up the table,but if we don't manage this,to try and make sure we don't lose.

I was referring to the article in the Burton Mail that Cumbria put up, the part that stuck out is "the big thing is we must not lose" that to me is not sending the right message out. I might be reading too much into it, but it doesn't fill me with much confidence.

[davenportram]

The report said that I read said 10%, but either way it is down. Sorry should have been clearer, since Clough has been in charge it has dropped nearly 8000.

Average for 09-10 29230. (cloughs first full season)

Average so far 12-13. 23,118

So down by 6,000

[Ambitious]

We do have a lot of money in our club, but they're investors - and probably 'brought a share' in the club, which is governed by GSE, who own the club - but GSE aren't that rich, Andy Appleby is probably the poorest chairman in the championship, but what he does have is men with money behind him, and some of these 'men' have ridiculous of cash, which could change the face of this club for good.

 

Here is my own little conspiracy theory, GSE brought the club with bad intentions - and that was jumping on cheapest premier league side, knowing the inflation in the top division was forever increasing, so initially he banked on a straight back to back promotion with a very well known reputable manager in charge (and at that point, Paul Jewell was known as one of the finest in the business for what he managed at Wigan) unfortunately, things didn't pan out the way we/nor them wanted and when Jewell was pushed out the door, realisation of what was to come was around the corner - they brought in a manager with past links to the club, a manager that had never failed and a manager that was 'promising' - getting in Clough was always going to be a long term project, as we needed to cut down around half our wagebill and work on getting this team sustainable within the championship, no reputable manager would work with such restrictions so they went out to bring the 'good feeling' back to the club, and, if Clough didn't get the job - then I am almost certain Stimac, Eranio.. perhaps even Paul Simpson would of been given the managers job (or someone of that ilk) but now, I think they know the situation of this division - and for their point of view, something needs to happen... 

 

At the minute we have a chairman without the money to sustain this club on his own, but, we have investors that are ridiculously rich (don't 2 make the top 100 in the world) or something daft, anyway... the point is, how long will these investors keep pumping in money, in to a team stagnant in the championship making 8 million pound losses? This is where it can go either way for us, the first, is that the investors work out how to get ahead in the game - because ultimately they need promotion more than we do, being in the championship doesn't do anything for them! They take more of an interest, give more money, and give us that competitive budget to work with - or they will ultimately pull out, and leave a poor owner with an unsustainable club in his hands, and at which point we would probably go into administration. 

 

Dependent on what the investors decide to do, depends on their decision ultimately to how rich, we are/aren't! 

[trevorheadboard]

In. Stability is key. Softly slowly...

 

Be patient.

[rynny]

Average for 09-10 29230. (cloughs first full season)

Average so far 12-13. 23,118

So down by 6,000

Just checked where I read it and misread. Apologies for that.

[top 6 finish]

Sorry,I can't reply for laughing.

 

 

Am not saying that you are incorrect in your statement, how are you measuring the clubs riches am curious to know

I did a Billionaire count,its called rocket science.We are, despite Clough,still in the top 15-18 best

supported teams in the country.

[notts_ram]

We do have a lot of money in our club, but they're investors 

Hope that our backers are realising now that they may have well invested their money in a Cypriot bank rather then Derby County for the returns they are going to get on their money

[WilkoRam]

So attendance has dropped BECAUSE of Clough but we 15th-18th best supported club DESPITE him. No win situation there.

We may be rich in terms of the wealth of our investors but it doesn't make us a rich club. We're being run as a self sufficient business which is hard in football. It's not an easy task I would just like an ethos to be set out. Look at Villa, a club going through a similar thing whereby money isn't being injected as much and the reliance is on youth. They're playing football and sticking to that ideal. They're not now hoofing it up to to grind out results and in the long run that will be a huge benefit.

[notts_ram]

I did a Billionaire count,its called rocket science.We are, despite Clough,still in the top 15-18 best

supported teams in the country.

Am sure that we are, unfortunately if the revenue from our attendances doesn't cover our outgoings as it does at the moment this doesn't count for a jot

[ramblur]

I did a Billionaire count,its called rocket science.We are, despite Clough,still in the top 15-18 best

supported teams in the country.

A billionaire count shows individuals who are rich.It doesn't make us as a club rich unless an amount of this largesse is injected (as capital) into the club.Any past injections are gone,some would say squandered.Being in the top 15-18 supported clubs means little in this day and age.This is well and truly trumped by the 7 clubs receiving 'chute payments this year,a figure set to increase next year.

[top 6 finish]

So attendance has dropped BECAUSE of Clough but we 15th-18th best supported club DESPITE him. No win situation there.

We may be rich in terms of the wealth of our investors but it doesn't make us a rich club. We're being run as a self sufficient business which is hard in football. It's not an easy task I would just like an ethos to be set out. Look at Villa, a club going through a similar thing whereby money isn't being injected as much and the reliance is on youth. They're playing football and sticking to that ideal. They're not now hoofing it up to to grind out results and in the long run that will be a huge benefit.

The point is before Clough we were the 12th best supported club.Good for Villa,My mate is a long standing

villa ST holder he says much the same.They have a good manager which helps.

However getting back to stark reality,us.Get a proven manager,they are not all named Clough,he will have

named his conditions for taking the job,i.e budget.To get promotion his method won't matter,play nice football after.

Take the money,build on it,job done.

[notts_ram]

Get a proven manager,they are not all named Clough,

If the current owners wanted a proven manager in they wouldn't have hired Clough in the first place, sorry to rain on your parade

[davenportram]

The point is before Clough we were the 12th best supported club.Good for Villa,My mate is a long standing

villa ST holder he says much the same.They have a good manager which helps.

However getting back to stark reality,us.Get a proven manager,they are not all named Clough,he will have

named his conditions for taking the job,i.e budget.To get promotion his method won't matter,play nice football after.

Take the money,build on it,job done.

So a manager decides the budget when he joins? Does he set his own salary too?

[WilkoRam]

I'm not saying all good managers are named Clough. I'm actually more for a change and my reason is in contrast to your last bit. I think it does matter what football you play now. The best clubs to have come out of this division and into the Prem recently have played football. They have stuck to their methods and style and its paying off now. There's no use getting promoted and then trying to adopt a different approach. If we're looking to rely more on youth (which I applaud) then the style needs to be there throughout. I don't see it currently. Your mate who's a Villa can is happy because although they're down fighting against relegation they see what's being introduced within the club, the style and methods that are being out in place and stuck to. We don't have that here we too readily revert to 'grinding out results' and it goes back to effort, determination, hard work, etc. there needs to be an identity to our play.

[ramblur]

I was just going to reply to your post on Commons and it's gone.Am I hallucinating?

 

Scrap-I got the wrong thread.

[top 6 finish]

I'm not saying all good managers are named Clough. I'm actually more for a change and my reason is in contrast to your last bit. I think it does matter what football you play now. The best clubs to have come out of this division and into the Prem recently have played football. They have stuck to their methods and style and its paying off now. There's no use getting promoted and then trying to adopt a different approach. If we're looking to rely more on youth (which I applaud) then the style needs to be there throughout. I don't see it currently. Your mate who's a Villa can is happy because although they're down fighting against relegation they see what's being introduced within the club, the style and methods that are being out in place and stuck to. We don't have that here we too readily revert to 'grinding out results' and it goes back to effort, determination, hard work, etc. there needs to be an identity to our play.

The point I wanted to make, but tiredness is creeping in,is that Villa are already there.We need to get there

by any means necessary theres literally millions at stake.

[Asanovic]

The point is before Clough we were the 12th best supported club.Good for Villa,My mate is a long standing

villa ST holder he says much the same.They have a good manager which helps.

However getting back to stark reality,us.Get a proven manager,they are not all named Clough,he will have

named his conditions for taking the job,i.e budget.To get promotion his method won't matter,play nice football after.

Take the money,build on it,job done.

 

What makes Lambert a good manager?

 

Lambert inherited a crap situation. He's bought alot of young players, gambled, and only in the last few weeks of the season does it look like it's not going to spectacularly backfire with relegation. At times he's looked tactically inept, his team have looked totally bereft of confidence for weeks and weeks at a time, but they've scrambled enough points in the last few weeks to just be outside the bottom three.

 

Sounds kind of familiar...

 

But Lambert will get time before supporters get on his back because he's got those promotions to his name.

 

The Villa 'project' - clearing the mess that O'Neill left behind with with overinflated egos and wages - will take years to sort out. In the meantime, he's quickly got to get experience under the belt of Bowery, Dawkins, Stevens, Clark, Carruthers, Lowton and about a dozen others. It'll mean playing some brutish football at times (which we've seen, although they've also played some decent stuff at times), and being pragmatic in the way they approach matches.  

 

Again, it rings true closer to home.

 

Lambert hasn't proved he's a good manager in this job - he's performed very ordinarily so far, but then with the resources available to him it's perhaps not all that surprising. I see alot of similarities in the job he and Clough have on their hands. I doubt very much you'll see Villa anywhere the top six again for 4-5 years, but with stability and bringing young players through, they'll get there.

 

Do I think Paul Lambert is a good manager? Yes, I do. But doing the job he's doing just shows how poor you can look when you're in a near impossible situation. Clough at Burton, Lambert at Norwich - when you can assemble teams you want/need, you'll win things. When you can't, it's damn tough.

 

These rebuilding jobs are becoming more and more common on the back of lavish (or outright stupid) spending 4 or 5 years ago. We're just another one of them.

 

I just hope Clough gets the chance to see it through.

[top 6 finish]

4 effing years and we are going nowhere possibly backwards,would you have given Jewell that long?

[needles]

4 effing years and we are going nowhere possibly backwards,would you have given Jewell that long?

 

At the rate Jewell spent money, we'd have been bankrupt two years ago.