Albert Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 In fairness, Ward has only just hit that tally, and you have to hope his hamstrings hold out. Also, alot of Theo's time on the pitch has been ten minute spells at the end of away games etc, not the best time to try and do anything considering our away performances. Also, both Steve and Theo hit 12 last season, if you count all competitions, hence why he said that. So shhhhhhh 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Theo scores goals, doesn't do much else, but scores goals. He also missed a few months last season yet hit 12 goals. With a full season I have no doubt that he'd frustrate the hell out of you yet still hit around 15 goals, if enough chances were created for him. The stats seem to support that. His career here is over, sadly. For me, a poor decision. But then i'm not the manager, so what I think doesn't matter much. We're counting all competitions now? Rightyo... I thought we primarily cared about that mystical 20 goal mark in the league, but that's fine. Theo's average time on the pitch per appearance this season has been 44 minutes, he's played the full 90 5 times and he's played more than a half a further 8 times beyond that. Take from that what you will. Personally I like Theo, he's a good player to have in the squad. The problem is that he should be the plan B, or ideally plan C, D or ξ. The reason being that he seems to offer little to the team as a whole, but having him around can get us results. He's great to bring off the bench, he's great to bring on when you need that goal, but the problem is that he's a footballer, he wants to play games, and let's be honest, who wants to be plan ξ? I wish Theo all the best if he does leave permanently, but I do wish people get the facts straight about him now before we have a Cywka like situation where we misrepresent the situation repeatedly each and ever damn time! To summarise, Theo scores goals, but it's quite clear that he doesn't score enough to justify his place. Sammon is at least backed by the fact that beside actually scoring at least a few (and setting up a couple), that his partners have scored at a much higher rate than last season. With Theo it's just goals. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We're counting all competitions now? Rightyo... I thought we primarily cared about that mystical 20 goal mark in the league, but that's fine. Theo's average time on the pitch per appearance this season has been 44 minutes, he's played the full 90 5 times and he's played more than a half a further 8 times beyond that. Take from that what you will. Personally I like Theo, he's a good player to have in the squad. The problem is that he should be the plan B, or ideally plan C, D or ξ. The reason being that he seems to offer little to the team as a whole, but having him around can get us results. He's great to bring off the bench, he's great to bring on when you need that goal, but the problem is that he's a footballer, he wants to play games, and let's be honest, who wants to be plan ξ? I wish Theo all the best if he does leave permanently, but I do wish people get the facts straight about him now before we have a Cywka like situation where we misrepresent the situation repeatedly each and ever damn time! To summarise, Theo scores goals, but it's quite clear that he doesn't score enough to justify his place. Sammon is at least backed by the fact that beside actually scoring at least a few (and setting up a couple), that his partners have scored at a much higher rate than last season. With Theo it's just goals. Oh well... The 20/30 goal a season myth matters little to me, I personally would rather have goals spread around a side than a 30 goal a season man being the sole out-put of goals (see Burnley for how that can be a problem), though I would like a striker who can be regularly hitting atleast around half that figure each season. (Missed the word 'half' around from this sentence, late edit) Theo for me is a good option to start games, coming off the bench he seems to be mostly ineffective as despite his pace he isn't someone to come on and devastate a defence, merely wait for the chance to come to him. He doesn't often engineer that chance himself, so he's simply best on the pitch when we're actively looking for goals. When we're not he can be replaced without too much issue. Personally Sammon doesn't do enough for me to justify his own place, but Theo and Ward together wouldn't work either, Sammon and Theo seemed to work atleast a little at home as Sammon would simply rough people up and use his pace, which opened up space for Theo to get chances. I personally would've shifted Ward out to the wing, as though he does score alot nowadays he can also be a rare creative force for us, and he still scores goals from the wing, particularly if allowed to roam (as he pretty much is doing now). Some strikers simply are goal scorers and nothing more. Considering his success at such things, i'm surprised he's being moved on. Remember Tito? Not a great technical player, but an excellent finisher in Mexico because of the creativity and players around him. That's how i'd personally have used Theo. You know he's not a great striker but he's going to score, so look to the bigger picture and create chances for him. And though I bleat on about it, he had 9 goals by the start of December or so. Half a season. Add another half of the season and you've got, even by reducing the number, around 15 goals. How long since we had that? I'd better stop posting in this thread as i'll never stop arguing about it! Haha. I just think it's a poor decision. Ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 His success as a goal scorer is no better, in fact arguably worse than Ward's. Ward is also better for the team. We're not going to drop Jamie for Theo, and so it's either sit on the bench or if he doesn't want to do that, he may leave, which seems to be what's happening. Again, I like Theo, but I don't see him popping in a couple of goals (less per minute while played as a striker than Ward this season, Ward's record this season flattens anything Theo's even got near) as being enough to drop betters players like Ward, or different players, like Sammon for. If this means that he'll want to go elsewhere for games, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We're counting all competitions now? Rightyo... I thought we primarily cared about that mystical 20 goal mark in the league, but that's fine. Theo's average time on the pitch per appearance this season has been 44 minutes, he's played the full 90 5 times and he's played more than a half a further 8 times beyond that. Take from that what you will. Personally I like Theo, he's a good player to have in the squad. The problem is that he should be the plan B, or ideally plan C, D or ξ. The reason being that he seems to offer little to the team as a whole, but having him around can get us results. He's great to bring off the bench, he's great to bring on when you need that goal, but the problem is that he's a footballer, he wants to play games, and let's be honest, who wants to be plan ξ? I wish Theo all the best if he does leave permanently, but I do wish people get the facts straight about him now before we have a Cywka like situation where we misrepresent the situation repeatedly each and ever damn time! To summarise, Theo scores goals, but it's quite clear that he doesn't score enough to justify his place. Sammon is at least backed by the fact that beside actually scoring at least a few (and setting up a couple), that his partners have scored at a much higher rate than last season. With Theo it's just goals. Oh well... So if our strike force is much better than last year, with sammon at the forefront creating or these extra goals, where in the team are we weaker? Our midfield ? have the likes of coutts and Hughes not contributed to ward and Theo's increased strike rate, and as a matter of interest, how does Davies compare to the three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 So if our strike force is much better than last year, with sammon at the forefront creating or these extra goals, where in the team are we weaker? Our midfield ? have the likes of coutts and Hughes not contributed to ward and Theo's increased strike rate, and as a matter of interest, how does Davies compare to the three? Conor Sammon: Appearances: 33 Minutes: 2673 Goals: 6 Assists: 3 Combined: 9 Goals per 90: 0.202 Assists per 90: 0.101 Combined per 90: 0.303 Theo Larayan Ronaldo Robinson: Appearances: 80 Minutes: 4428 Goals: 20 Assists: 3 Combined: 23 Goals per 90: 0.407 Assists per 90: 0.061 Combined per 90: 0.467 Jamie Ward: Appearances: 67 Minutes: 5254 Goals: 20 Assists: 18 Combined: 38 Goals per 90: 0.343 Assists per 90: 0.308 Combined per 90: 0.651 Steve Davies: Appearances: 72 Minutes: 4101 Goals: 19 Assists: 5 Combined: 24 Goals per 90: 0.417 Assists per 90: 0.110 Combined per 90: 0.527 Note: This is for appearances under Nigel only Second Note: There was an error for the combined figure of Jamie Ward, it is 38, not 23 So, not as good as Ward, but better than Theo. As for him last season only: Steve Davies: Appearances: 26 Minutes: 1712 Goals: 11 Assists: 2 Combined: 13 Goals per 90: 0.578 Assists per 90: 0.105 Combined per 90: 0.683 Compare this to Theo and Jamie this season: Theo Larayan Ronaldo Robinson: Appearances: 28 Minutes: 1240 Goals: 8 Assists: 0 Combined: 8 Goals per 90: 0.581 Assists per 90: 0 Combined per 90: 0.581 Jamie Ward: Appearances: 17 Minutes: 1338 Goals: 11 Assists: 9 Combined: 20 Goals per 90: 0.740 Assists per 90: 0.605 Combined per 90: 1.35 Basically, Ward has been outstanding this season with Sammon along side him. Also, does our weakness really need to be pointed out? We're poor away from home, we have a young side, and a defensive pair that is basically Keogh and whoever else is fit. In terms of goals scored we're pretty damn decent this season, especially at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 So if our strike force is much better than last year, with sammon at the forefront creating or these extra goals, where in the team are we weaker? Defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Defence. Or maybe we have changed our philosophy on the way we play games, anybody watching games knows that you have to defend as a team something clough has mentioned on numerous occasions. The addition of coutts and Hughes this year has added an extra dimension to our attacking play. We had injuries last year in defence and couldn't find a settled back four, to say sammon has come in and solved all our attacking problems IMO is not correct, he is better than theo but only marginally IMO. We are still an average champ team, missing a quality CD, keeper and forward to accompany ward, all IMO of course :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 To be fair, we played our best football this season when Ward was injured, I'd prefer him out wide left next season with a new striker up front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 How long since we had that? I'd better stop posting in this thread as i'll never stop arguing about it! Haha. I just think it's a poor decision. Ah well. I'm all for having Theo around. He's as likely as others to get you a goal in the last 15 minutes. Have I missed something though Alex? You've mentioned it's a poor decision. Did we list him or make him available or did he ask to go out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I've defended Theo to the hilt despite his limitations, but I think his time is up. If he's only going to play cameo's off the bench, we might as well give Mason Bennett the shirt. I'm very optimistic that the lad can do all the things Theo can do, but with extra quality on the ball and natural football brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm all for having Theo around. He's as likely as others to get you a goal in the last 15 minutes. Have I missed something though Alex? You've mentioned it's a poor decision. Did we list him or make him available or did he ask to go out? He indeed asked to go, we however had a player on 9 goals and left him on the bench from the start of December onwards, i'd say the decision had already been made that he was no longer needed. This happened for three months, he was barely used. From our highest and most prolific scorer while Ward was out to ten minute cameo's here and there. Seems to be a clear enough indicator that he wasn't needed. All of this at a time where Theo had just started to progress a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 He indeed asked to go, we however had a player on 9 goals and left him on the bench from the start of December onwards, i'd say the decision had already been made that he was no longer needed. This happened for three months, he was barely used. From our highest and most prolific scorer while Ward was out to ten minute cameo's here and there. Seems to be a clear enough indicator that he wasn't needed. All of this at a time where Theo had just started to progress a little. but during that period our home form was fantastic and we got a few away draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Any derby fans that don't want ward up front please give me a valid reason why 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Because it winds you up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 but during that period our home form was fantastic and we got a few away draws. 3 wins, 6 losses and 5 draws, if memory serves me right, which is 14 pts from 42 I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 He indeed asked to go, we however had a player on 9 goals and left him on the bench from the start of December onwards, i'd say the decision had already been made that he was no longer needed. This happened for three months, he was barely used. From our highest and most prolific scorer while Ward was out to ten minute cameo's here and there. Seems to be a clear enough indicator that he wasn't needed. All of this at a time where Theo had just started to progress a little. Again it's all about opinions. I saw it as he wasn't quite pushing hard enough for a starting spot, nothing he did when he came on for those 10 or 15 minute cameos showed that he deserved to play ahead of Sammon or Ward who are undoubtedly first choice pairing up front right now. I think at times we've desperately needed a striker to come off the bench and give us that little bit extra over the last couple of weeks. Theo knew he was first in line and that he would get some minutes but that he wouldn't be starting until he did enough to push one of those two out. If he wants to go somewhere where he's going to start games you cant really stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Because it winds you up Fair play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 3 wins, 6 losses and 5 draws, if memory serves me right, which is 14 pts from 42 I think? well actually we are both wrong because the period Alex was talking about only covers 3 games (Bristol, Hull and Burnley) between Theo being on the bench and Ward coming back. 1 win and two losses but hardly a period long enough to be reason for slipping form. edit - misread the post and now if we look at the form from Theo being dropped and wards reintroduction we were better before Ward came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Fair play You can always rely on me to get down to basics. Speaking of which, where is Mostyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 3 wins, 6 losses and 5 draws, if memory serves me right, which is 14 pts from 42 I think? Are you trying to suggest that with Theo in the team we would have had a better team overall? Or Are you saying that he would have scored more goals, and made more assists than Ward over that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Are you trying to suggest that with Theo in the team we would have had a better team overall? Or Are you saying that he would have scored more goals, and made more assists than Ward over that time? i was referring to our run since December, don't think I mentioned ward theo or the pope in the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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