Alph

Criticise Israel. Get called Antisemetic. Standard

I stand with the Jews, Christians, Catholics, Muslims etc that oppose Israel's aggressive expansionists campaign against Semite people. Against the Arab Muslims who don't know what prejudice is. 

If it makes people feel better to call such a stance antisemetic or label us Nazis then that's fine. Absolutely fine. Because the calls won't be stifled by this scare tactic. 

There's Jewish protesters in America being verbally abused by Jews right now for their stance on Israel. 

Islamophobia increased by 600%. So?

Attacks on Muslims increase every time some lunatic twists the words of the Qur'an and carries out some horrific act of terrorism. Muslim communities have to defend themselves on quite a regular basis. 

And when a vile humans like Suella Braverman press activate on right wing mobs to come and defend our shores from these terrorists. But we must be careful not to offend her. Feck her. Racist. 

Muslim communities feel insecure as UKIP, EDL, BNP etc have their marches and campaigns. 

Commonly misrepresented in TV and Hollywood. 

I said the other day. Click on the mainstream media comments section. See the open racism. Not even disguised

Rachel Riley - 'Nobody cared about Muslims before and they only care now because they're antisemetic'.... Yes Rachel. Nobody did care before. So we've established that. Good. Now let's analyse why they care now? Is it because they're antisemetic or is it possible that Israel don't represent all Jews and the IDF are terrorists? 

.....

Anyway, I realise what I'm doing is comparing racism rather than condemning all of it. Of course there's a rise in antisemetism. There's hate in the air. Every Nazi out there will piggyback on this. 

But it's a classic defence of Israel to play this card. As if there isn't a million reasons to be against Israel's policy. 

Whenever you look at Israeli defence it's based around being the victim. Being surrounded by enemies. Being a population of people persecuted through history. Being systematically tortured and slaughtered by Hitler. At what point does this stop being context and become an excuse for their behaviour. It's a brutal question. But when? When all the Palestinians are pushed into Sinai? When 20,000 Gazans are dead? 200,000? When the West Bank is 10% smaller? 20%? When Israel borders Iran? When the tension between Iran and Saudi reaches an all time high? When the oil rich nation of Iran must beg America to take it's resources at great discount through the "peace corridor"? 

When? When does context become excuse? Never? 

Netenyahu and his mob are Zionist war criminals. As vile as Hamas. There are many Zionist lunatics in Israel. And it's these we must oppose. As we must seek to remove Hamas in a realistic way. 

If they want to hide behind antisemetism then you must accept the label and drive on. With support from the countless Jews who recognise the Apartheid regime. 

I hope I haven't offended any Jews. I don't think I've been racist here. My anger is purely at the Imperial scum who disgustingly hide behind the atrocities commited against Jewish people while they kill Palestine's future

Is true that Israel discovered the Hamas guard duty rota on an Arabic calender in a hospital? 

And the guards were called Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... 

🤣

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

How did they know it was his? Was his passport in the pocket? 

Don't mock! 

If you watch the original video then you'll see that they found a stack of CD's next to a Lenovo T490 laptop. Clearly the CD's contained many of Hamas secrets. 

Secrets Hamas don't even know themselves because the Lenovo T490 laptop doesn't have a CD drive 

57 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

I really ought to feel excited, but oddly I've got a severe case of CBA, but don't know why. Feels like we've been waiting for years and even now the AJ-Wilder fight has been ringfenced for another lucrative night out for all concerned. It has the feel of a collective of very wealthy fighter and promoters squeezing the last pips out of fight fans before heading West with their coffers truly stuffed.

Not gonna lie, but that same reasoning still allows me to be pissed that the Saudis are staging these fights, but that tells you all you need to know about the fight game these days. That said, probably I'll cave and tune in, so perhaps I'm just being an uppity dick about it all. What really grates for me, is that for all the sound and fury (excuse pun), this is a very hollow division with a man at the top who just took a pasting from an MMA fighter. 

Just realised how grumpy I'm being. I'll f*** off now 🤣

Come on!! It's a banging card! 

Forget all that UFC Judo nonsense where the best aren't protected. 

This is a real sport. With tradition. Where fighting ability is second only to commercial value. 

And now the Crown Prince, a thoroughly decent bloke according to his captives, is going to force the best to fight the best. 

Embrace your inner Neville. Show your anger with a £30 box office purchase. Stfu and don't be negative at Christmas. 

19 minutes ago, MaltRam said:

On the night, I'm going to feel more guilty about making my missus upset about me watching boxing all nihght on the last Sat before Christmas than I am about Yemen, murdered critics and downtrodden minorities, tbh.

My Mrs said what about ethics and morals. 

I've double checked but I can't see them on the undercard?

Fury v Usyk in Feb. 

These Saudis are never getting the money back they must be paying for these events but jeez, finally fights are getting made. 

A lot are annoyed it isn't AJ Wilder but I think it's smart from the Saudis to run this card. They definitely seem to be willing to pay out for the big fights and AJ and Wilder could both do with a booster. So let's hope both win and we get that. 

Joshua is being an absolute knob and I love it. For too long he didn't have anything to prove and now he finally is back in that place. 

Hamas militant to face disciplinary committee. 

Hamas militant Amir Jamal Nabil is to face a disciplinary procedure after IDF Forces discovered his uniform inside the Al Shifa hospital as seen in the viral video posted by the Israeli Ministry of Defence. 

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said "The hospital was a command center for our operations against the Zionist invaders. We had three days to evacuate the building and remove all evidence. We are all extremely disappointed that Amir has compromised our efforts" 

A source close to Amir had this to say, "Amir was a difficult even when we were cadets. He would often show up on the parade ground in his pyjamas. He always had a fear of guns and would refuse to carry a weapon while on patrol." 

The latest video from Israeli government also shows the effort they are making to help the local population. Dozens of boxes labeled "MeDiCaL SuPpLiEs" in English can be seen all facing the camera within the hospital grounds. It also shows a neatly folded Hamas uniform complete with bright green headband on a table. We can't verify whether the uniform did belong to Amir Jamal Nabil but our source did conclude "Amir suffered with OCD. Sometimes he would insist that all human shields were arranged in height order."

Anyone else feeling a little bit better about human rights violations if it gives us a card like the Saudi one on the 23rd December? 

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the top Hamas leadership in their Qatar penthouses who've been creaming off the aid money for decades and who, consequently, have no interest in either peace or their own people.

You won't find that in a David Icke podcast though.

Easily done isn't it? Mixing up an evil terrorist organisation with a liberal democratic state. 

That HQ will be shut down soon anyway. When Hamas are defeated.

Want to see discrimination? Listen to Suella and any politician talk about "them". If that was about Jews...

Click on any UK mainstream media coverage of the conflict and read the comments. Tell me who the vast majority of discriminate comments are aimed at. Do it. Go look right now and cycle through. Even the Pro Palestine comments tend to be anti Israel and nothing about Jews more broadly

We have headlines from GB News etc that say "is this what our country fought for"... Irony. Lots and lots of irony. WW2 produced a Jewish State but we didn't fight to let "them" support an Arab State 

Jewish lives, Ukrainian lives, Arab lives. Are they all given the same value? 

What would happen if everybody like Tommy Robinson changed the words "Muslims" to "Jews". Would they have the same freedom and support? 

I bet you can go on something like Twitter right now and see the open way people speak about "them" and "they". Where they should go and what they should do. What's left "Britain Broken". Who are they refering to? 

I don't really like things like Islamophobia Month. But that's this is why it exists. Shoving Anti racism campaigns at people.... I'm not sure it helps? I dunno. I don't care to be honest. I believe Britain to be a tolerant country and sometimes it's annoying to be constantly told we are all racist, homophobic, planet murderers. It's like a relentless attack from campaigns. But if we're going to look for say antisemitism then let's not look past stuff like this. Because in this particular debate it's often used to stifle arguments. Arguments being made by/on behalf of Arab/Muslim/Semite people of all people!

Took some leaps there

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

100 commandos breached Al-Shifa hospital last night. Rolled up with 6 tanks apparently. From the BBC article:

Dr Mokhallalati told the BBC on Wednesday that the hospital was without power, oxygen and water.

On Tuesday essential surgeries had been carried out without proper anaesthesia, with patients "screaming in pain". No surgeries could be carried out on Wednesday.

Doctors were unable to help one patient with burns on Tuesday due to lack of equipment including ventilators and had to just "let him die".

Meanwhile six premature babies had died in recent days and Dr Mokhallalati said he feared more would die due to lack of oxygen and lack of power.

Reports on Al Jazeera indicate no shots were fired as no Hamas presence was detected, despite US intelligence confirming them as having a base at the hospital.

 

Oh I'm sure a video will pop up of a Hamas officer inside the hospital. 

They killed an Al Jazeera journalists (Shireen?) and provided video proof it wasn't them. 

CNN investigated 

Israel later admitted it was probably them. 

So I guarantee there will be some discovery in the hospital. I mean, Hamas are going to use such places so it could be true. 

But the whole point is.... It's a hospital. 

That's what is infuriating. "They're hiding in hospitals!"..... So? What? Just bomb the hospital? Just turn the power off? Are you sure you're any better than Hamas? 

Tough to claim the moral high ground when you play tit for tat with a Terrorist Organisation. And with all that technology you still kill civilians at a rate Hamas can't compete with. 

Fed up of their logic just being accepted. 

23 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Can't work out of you're taking the mick or not - sexism?? But if the mention of zionism is the bit you think is anti-semitic then I should point out that it's her words not mine. In the Jewish Chronicle

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/police-must-understand-that-jews-do-count-says-braverman-4Q7armNPfrgXcW2P2VIv65

 

That's been kept quiet?

I knew he was Jewish but I didn't know a "proud Zionist"

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

 

Sir Keir has argued that a ceasefire would not be appropriate, because it would freeze the conflict and embolden Hamas.

Yes. I'm sure Palestinians are less likely to to support Hamas now. I certainly know if I'd lost my home, my business, a dozen members of my family and my future was to live in a tent inside a fenced area patrolled by IDF soldiers that I'd resist the urge to take up arms. 

Freeze the conflict is the last thing we'd want. They're only Palestinians. 

Still waiting for a reason why what Israel are doing is logical and justified. Hamas can't be destroyed. They're every Gazan that refuses to s*** in a bucket for the rest of their lives now. 

Sunak just repeats the same old s*** and doesn't actually answer the obvious questions 

"Israel has a right to defend itself" - it's currently attacking on two fronts, no? Where's the attack/defence crossover? It's always blurred when it's the West doing it

"Hamas still hold hostages" - Where? In Gaza the place being bombed? Why would they give them back? Why wouldn't they stick them on a hospital roof? What's the attempt to rescue them? What's the Hannibal Directive? 

"Hamas seek to destabilise the region and must be destroyed" - Can you guarantee that they'll be destroyed after this? Can you even guarantee they won't actually find it easier to recruit and their support won't even increase? How many Palestinian lives is a Hamas member worth? 

"They hide in hospitals. In tunnels underneath" - So? What are you saying? Spit it out. 

Stop saying the same thing over and over like it's blatantly clear to any idiot that there can be no other way. You're not engaging. Your dictating. 

Address the arguments

@Mucker1884 Lovely poem! Trying to read that and suddenly the pollen got in my eyes. Hayfever is still around, you know. Always bad this time of year

David Cameron will sort it. 

But anyway, call for a ceasefire you spineless whimpering cnuts. Let another country be America's favourite dog for a bit. 

There's no justification for what's happening in Gaza. Nobody has put forward a sensible reason this is self defence. "Israel has a right to defend itself" is such a vague dismissive rhetoric. 

"Humanitarian pauses" 

Come on. Jeez. Say that by the end of this Hamas will be completely destroyed? You can't. Ceasefire! 

Potentially 10,000 dead to achieve what? What results? How many Hamas? 

Doesn't it make you feel a right cynical miserable old boot when someone like B4 can always find positivity. 

Sometimes you wanted to tell him, look. We aren't going to smash the league. Stop it. Forest didn't cheat. Stop. 

But you know, if the worst thing about you is blind positivity and faith then you're not a bad human, are you. 

No matter how dreadful Derby could be he found positives. Sometimes I think many sarcastically said (even if just inwardly) "I wish I was on what he's on"

Imagine if we all were. All off our heads on positivity and belief. 

You could almost feel ashamed now for not having his attitude. 

Much love to B4 and his family and friends. Been on here for what? 13 years or something. Some great characters and lovely people. He won't be forgotten here. You just know it. 

He's no 'Red Scum!!'

And then you've got the crown prince of Saudi Arabia pretending he cares. Research him. Nice bloke. 

The Saudis are dangling the carrot to Israel. The "peace corridor". Kerching! 

They won't mind the leverage they'd gain over Iran either. 

This is why there will never be peace. American allies, Iran, Saudi, Russia.... They play chess like this. 

6 minutes ago, cstand said:

I thank you for your reply.

I am very happy for Jews and Palestinians to live in peace together in any disputed land. 

Just for the record I am against any pro Israeli marches and any Israeli flag waving as well. 

Also I do not support the US either especially after the Iraq war. 
 

I Really wished I could come up with an answer to end it all but I can see nothing on the horizon. 
 

Sheeet, there's common ground there. 🤣 🤣

37 minutes ago, cstand said:

Natasha Hausdorff 5 months prior to the present conflict.

Cambridge union debate.

 

An Israeli lawyer. I'm good mate. Honestly. 

I could post UN resolutions and votes. Their appeals to ICJ. The ruling on Israel's wall by the ICJ and the objections by Israel's allies. Israel has failed to show to hearings and has ratified but not signed certain agreements. The Rome Statute for example was no longer supported by USA, Russia and Israel. 

This is all besides the general human decency you shouldn't be looking for loopholes in to take land that belongs to other people. Innocent people living off that land. Not Hamas. Not Israel. Just people. 

But we are going around in circles here. I don't want to argue with someone with such extreme views.

My view isn't extreme. I don't deny Israel's existence. I don't deny it's right to defend itself. I don't deny it exists in a hostile part of the world. I don't deny it's the most democratic nation. 

I just despise the condition it forces on Palestinians. Not Hamas, but Palestinians. 

44 minutes ago, cstand said:

Unfortunately some people who admit they are bias @Alphawill never understand so a solution will never be found. 
 

I answered you. Calm down. 

But I've argued with Zionists before and this is similar. You reach a point where they can't see anything but you as antisemetic, Gaza as a terrorist breeding ground, occupied land as their rightful land by ancient text and fully support Netenyahu. These are the type of people in Netenyahu's party who say that all Palestinians are complicit and an even harder approach should be taken. 

I can't argue with that. That's like arguing against Hamas who want Israel wiped from the map. It's extremes. 

I can't continue to argue with you when you say "disputed land" and keep claiming everyone is motivated by a hatred of Jews. I just have to be like , ok. Whatever. No point trying to convince you. 

@Revposted a video which was pretty balanced. Showed some understanding of Israel's threats. 

I said before, I'm not biased because I'm Arab or Muslim. I'm biased because I see the disproportionate suffering. If somehow balanced was restored and tipped the other way then I'd be supporting Israel's right to exist under Arab threat. 

If I'm anti anything then I'm anti American foreign policy. They're responsible for so much destabilization. Russia too but they're obviously less successful than America at pursuing their goal. 

There's not much more I can say to you now. I think that covers everything and it's become like the nonsense arguments between a Muslim who denies Israel's entire existence and a Zionist Jew. Not as extreme. But you get the gist 

1 hour ago, cstand said:

The waving loads of Palestinians flags  in Europe IMO will only play into the hands of Israeli propaganda to keep bombing the crap out of the them. 

The attack on Israel by Hammas was an act of genocide not a terrorist attack so under international law I don’t think there is much any government can realistically do TBH because all countries signed up to this agreement.

Silence is not violence silence stops people from taking sides which ultimately leads to more conflict and more violence. 

The uglier option is not an option unless you want all out war everywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

The waving of Palestinian flags and the support of Palestine has drawn millions of eyes to the conflict. It's exposed hypocrisy. Belgium deputy PM has called for sanctions. Blinken has started back tracking. Macron has done a 180°. There's more pressure on Israel now than any of their numerous operations (all of which I named and dated) in Gaza and more importantly West Bank. That's the important part too. Your first point is utter nonsense. Israel will keep being Israel regardless of flag waving in Europe. They've never stopped. But when several countries remove embassies it sends a message. Also, Saudi Arabia, the morally bankrupt regime that Israel want to reach, have had to cool relations with Israel due to the regional pressure. But again, you're more upset over protests than what's happening. That is funny. 

There are protests and calls for a general election in Israel. Kind of important. They stand up for dead kids more than you do. You're just crying about protests. 

Your second point..... Wow. Again it takes us back to "it's not occupied land it's disputed land like any other in the world"..... I can't argue with you. It's Netenyahu levels of insanity. I could go and show you exactly what Israel and America have and more importantly haven't signed. Go Google it yourself. Some interesting omissions. 

Your last point. That uglier is not an option. I'm afraid it very much is. I don't support it. But history shows what happens when governments and population have strong differing views. When a powerful military faces a weaker force. It's not beyond any race or religion. I'm not advocating it. I'm telling you it's a fact. The Suffragettes used bombs and Arson. Jews bombed King David Hotel. America funds terrorists groups. We've been over this. Governments, whether foreign or domestic, very rarely surrender to the will of the people if they ask nicely. 

Flag waving in this case is the only peaceful way to show the government what the population think. 

Now, I'm not a big fan of arguing with you because you make such points that I've genuinely not encountered from Israeli Jews. Some of those don't even attempt to appear like they're neutral. And you kind of have to respect that. They just want to be safe and not face what their ancestors have. They wouldn't say disputed land. They'd say occupied land or even land that belongs to them by ancient text. They'd argue why they need to take it. They'd say Gaza is a terrorists breeding ground. Not pretend they give a toss. And they'd vote Netenyahu. 

However a lot of Israeli Jews are protesting. A lot of Jews in the world are calling it exactly like Pro Palestinians. 

But you? You haven't spoken up for Gaza once. Certainly not as much as you've claimed everyone is antisemetic or that Protesters are the major problem here. Earlier you were annoyed that I incited violence against politicians because I edited a post (then didn't reply when I told you what I edited and it can probably be verified by a mod). It seems everything bothers you more than dead people in West Bank or Gaza. 

Cuckoo

54 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Without not wishing to turn this thread into the history channel (this is an interesting debate)I'm not sure I entirely agree. Technically, it may have been against their religion to go to war (I don't know), they made a pretty good job of extending their influence - largely by force I would guess. Wasn't the first Punic war against Carthage triggered by Rome's expansionist policy?

Also, the state may have been a sort of democracy, more than half of the adult population couldn't vote. 

 

Yeah that's what I'm getting at. A peaceful City that never started a war just so happened to become a great empire overthrowing another empire but always justified it with peace and self defence. 

Even the first Punic War. They saw it as a defence. Coming to the aid of the Mamertines (pretty sickening) because they were concerned about Carthaginian expansion into Sicily and Southern Italy.

It's 2023 and we still have nations reaching across the world to find reasons to "defend". One nation in particular frequently finds reasons to go to war or fund conflicts that are "just". Sometimes even fabricating entire events to enter conflict. 

Hitler, Putin.... Has any villain ever started a war that wasn't based on "defence" or "national security". 

I guess it's just our nature. But I wish America had been called out more. And didn't have nations like Britain that will support them even when they're lying and destabilizing regions to suit their imperial goals.